Originally posted by KJ Duke:
If he thinks me recommending changes makes me a crybaby with a bunch of out of contention teams, whoever this guy is a first class idiot. Ditto for the many others who have weighed in on the issue of improving the game. Now that should help...
Leave the NFFC AS IS
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36409
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Leave the NFFC AS IS
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Leave the NFFC AS IS
I am not a veteran by any means. I have been around a while and I believe I can say that I have experienced every format there is. I like the NFFC as currently constituted, but if expanding the playoff format will help in getting more teams involved and raising the prize money, I am all for it. I have expressed my opinions in other threads as to what would work, so I am not going to repeat myself here. But, personal opinion on the poster and a few of the responses... what you are saying is not reality. By saying we just need to do a better job drafting and maintaining our team, you obviously are trying to cause a stir and can't be serious. No matter how good you are, losing your top picks to injury for the year is not a lack of skill, its a lack of luck. Especially with guys who never get injured such as Adrian Peterson. In one league, I am facing the final week without my 3 best drafted players, in order to make the playoffs. But the fact that I still have a chance, says something about the current format. I believe Greg and Tom will make the decision based upon what is best for all, not just the veterans and not just the newcomers. I trust they will make the best decision, but what is great about them is, if it doesn't work, they will tweak it until it does. I am a NFFC lifer because of my trust in the management and the competitiveness of the games. The format in ONE of the games getting adjusted shouldn't be the reason everyone gets all up in arms. Everyone needs to calm down.
Leave the NFFC AS IS
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Sandman62:
Are you kidding me Greg?!
The original post was a complete insult to any player who would like to see one or two more teams make the playoffs. "Whiners... crybabies... deficient"???
Hey, I realize you're trying to grow your business by bringing in new players, but please don't tell me not to question whether they've been on the wrong side of the coin enough to make such harsh judgments, while allowing them to make ridiculous and insulting assumptions about WHY some people are suggesting improvements. Unreal! :rolleyes: No I'm not kidding Mike. Whether he's a first-year member or long-term member, question his use of whiners and crybabies rather than whether he's been part of the gang long enough or not. That's not hard to understand. [/QUOTE]Greg, I wasn't picking on a newbie just for the fun of it. My point was that if you haven't spent a couple/few years missing the playoffs by a spot or two or three (and as Glenn said, not had much fun from early on in the season due to the playoff format)...well, then maybe your opinion might change once you've had more experience (in this case, unenjoyable experiences). This isn't simply a matter of me suggesting "new players opinions don't count". Rather, for this particular argument, if you haven't walked a mile in the shoes of some who have, maybe you should wait a bit and report back when you have? That's not hard to understand either. :rolleyes:
quote:Originally posted by Sandman62:
Are you kidding me Greg?!
The original post was a complete insult to any player who would like to see one or two more teams make the playoffs. "Whiners... crybabies... deficient"??? Hey, I realize you're trying to grow your business by bringing in new players, but please don't tell me not to question whether they've been on the wrong side of the coin enough to make such harsh judgments, while allowing them to make ridiculous and insulting assumptions about WHY some people are suggesting improvements. Unreal! :rolleyes: No I'm not kidding Mike. Whether he's a first-year member or long-term member, question his use of whiners and crybabies rather than whether he's been part of the gang long enough or not. That's not hard to understand. [/QUOTE]Greg, I wasn't picking on a newbie just for the fun of it. My point was that if you haven't spent a couple/few years missing the playoffs by a spot or two or three (and as Glenn said, not had much fun from early on in the season due to the playoff format)...well, then maybe your opinion might change once you've had more experience (in this case, unenjoyable experiences). This isn't simply a matter of me suggesting "new players opinions don't count". Rather, for this particular argument, if you haven't walked a mile in the shoes of some who have, maybe you should wait a bit and report back when you have? That's not hard to understand either. :rolleyes:
Leave the NFFC AS IS
The poster who started this thread has a fair point in that some people do get frustrated with how a season has gone and then post with their current seasons frustration fueling their opinions.
Having said that, I think this forum should be a fertile ground for opinions and discussion on ways to improve the NFFC. Even if they are radical ideas. We should be allowed to throw out ideas and have discussion on them without it getting hostile and personal.
I know for a fact that some of the people talking about slightly expanding the playoffs are VERY GOOD fantasy players who are not whining at all. I know when I have posted about the NFFC or ways to consider change it has always been with the idea of growing the event into something more stable being the primary motivation.
This message board has limited value if we cannot have free discussion here without people getting attacked or shouted down.
Glenneration x made a post above that I could not possibly agree more with. Also, Greg and Tom can make changes that are mild that improve the areas many thing needs improving without dramatically changing the NFFC. They will get it right or at the very least, do all they can to get it right. I believe that. I think most of us recognize the quality of the NFFC experience is their primary goal so the event stays viable and grows into the premier HSFF event in the market.
Lets discuss ideas freely and in a friendly way.
[ December 04, 2011, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: renman ]
Having said that, I think this forum should be a fertile ground for opinions and discussion on ways to improve the NFFC. Even if they are radical ideas. We should be allowed to throw out ideas and have discussion on them without it getting hostile and personal.
I know for a fact that some of the people talking about slightly expanding the playoffs are VERY GOOD fantasy players who are not whining at all. I know when I have posted about the NFFC or ways to consider change it has always been with the idea of growing the event into something more stable being the primary motivation.
This message board has limited value if we cannot have free discussion here without people getting attacked or shouted down.
Glenneration x made a post above that I could not possibly agree more with. Also, Greg and Tom can make changes that are mild that improve the areas many thing needs improving without dramatically changing the NFFC. They will get it right or at the very least, do all they can to get it right. I believe that. I think most of us recognize the quality of the NFFC experience is their primary goal so the event stays viable and grows into the premier HSFF event in the market.
Lets discuss ideas freely and in a friendly way.
[ December 04, 2011, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: renman ]
Leave the NFFC AS IS
The original post invited confrontation and got it. Deal with it!
[ December 04, 2011, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
[ December 04, 2011, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
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Frozen Tundra
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:00 pm
Leave the NFFC AS IS
Please allow me to chime in on this topic. First, I've played Baseball with NFBC and really enjoyed it. This year, I gave football a shot. I will say off the bat that I won't be back unless NFFC format changes next year. Let me explain why:
-Just like Glenn, I lost Charles week 2. I also lost Bradshaw for significant time but still managed to hang in tough in second place in my league because I had Rodgers. My hopes for a playoff spot evaporated because the team I was chasing played a ghost owner two weeks ago.
This ghost owner probably started the year seriously, because I cannot fathom someone shelling this much money and not caring from the getgo. However, his interest dropped as he lost ground, partially because bad matchups in head to head, partially because of injuries.
This creates two big problems. First, the owner who suffers key injuries, as Glenn pointed out, will lose interest and the fun. Nobody wants that, considering how passionate we are for this game. Lost interest this year could signal less or no participation next year. That's not something NFFC wants.
Second, those inactive owners could create an unfair advantage in favor of leading teams who happen to play them later in year and could **** or turn off other owners who are chasing leaders. This flaw is largely due to head to head format. In baseball, this flaw doesn't exist or is greatly mitigated by the roto format and the lengthy 20+ weeks baseball season.
I see and propose two key initiatives:
-First, NFFC has to find ways to keep most owners interested as long as possible
-Second, NFFC has to find ways to decrease or eliminate the importance of head to head format, which could also decrease the negative impact of inactive owners.
How do we do that?
Here's some ideas:
1- Eliminate head to head. Just play points per game. That completely eliminates the impact of inactive owners.
2- Reduce head to head matchup impact by switching to 1+1 system: one win per head to head, one win for most points scored (first six high scoring teams get an extra win and teams could end up the week 2-0, 1-1, or 0-2). This reduces inactive owner impact but doesn't eliminate it.
How do we keep owners who lose significant players interested as long as possible?
Here's where we get a bit tricky and a bit innovative. Why not scrap the playoffs as we have them now and build our playoff system DURING NFL PLAYOFFS? Here's how and why:
-Let's play 17 weeks NFL season and organize our playoffs during NFL playoffs. Owners would accumulate points as long as they have players on their rosters during playoff weeks. This idea could make owners who have lost key players early on, are trailing, or otherwise have no shot during current system very interested if they happen to have a Rodgers-Jennings or a Brady-Welker on their team.
This could impact everything, from who to draft in August to every week play. But more importantly, it would keep a lot more owners in the game and make it more fun for everyone.
Thank you.
KM
-Just like Glenn, I lost Charles week 2. I also lost Bradshaw for significant time but still managed to hang in tough in second place in my league because I had Rodgers. My hopes for a playoff spot evaporated because the team I was chasing played a ghost owner two weeks ago.
This ghost owner probably started the year seriously, because I cannot fathom someone shelling this much money and not caring from the getgo. However, his interest dropped as he lost ground, partially because bad matchups in head to head, partially because of injuries.
This creates two big problems. First, the owner who suffers key injuries, as Glenn pointed out, will lose interest and the fun. Nobody wants that, considering how passionate we are for this game. Lost interest this year could signal less or no participation next year. That's not something NFFC wants.
Second, those inactive owners could create an unfair advantage in favor of leading teams who happen to play them later in year and could **** or turn off other owners who are chasing leaders. This flaw is largely due to head to head format. In baseball, this flaw doesn't exist or is greatly mitigated by the roto format and the lengthy 20+ weeks baseball season.
I see and propose two key initiatives:
-First, NFFC has to find ways to keep most owners interested as long as possible
-Second, NFFC has to find ways to decrease or eliminate the importance of head to head format, which could also decrease the negative impact of inactive owners.
How do we do that?
Here's some ideas:
1- Eliminate head to head. Just play points per game. That completely eliminates the impact of inactive owners.
2- Reduce head to head matchup impact by switching to 1+1 system: one win per head to head, one win for most points scored (first six high scoring teams get an extra win and teams could end up the week 2-0, 1-1, or 0-2). This reduces inactive owner impact but doesn't eliminate it.
How do we keep owners who lose significant players interested as long as possible?
Here's where we get a bit tricky and a bit innovative. Why not scrap the playoffs as we have them now and build our playoff system DURING NFL PLAYOFFS? Here's how and why:
-Let's play 17 weeks NFL season and organize our playoffs during NFL playoffs. Owners would accumulate points as long as they have players on their rosters during playoff weeks. This idea could make owners who have lost key players early on, are trailing, or otherwise have no shot during current system very interested if they happen to have a Rodgers-Jennings or a Brady-Welker on their team.
This could impact everything, from who to draft in August to every week play. But more importantly, it would keep a lot more owners in the game and make it more fun for everyone.
Thank you.
KM
Leave the NFFC AS IS
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I think the post to Leave the NFFC As Is is very worthy and I don't think anyone should take personal shots at the poster or guess whether he's a first-year player or not. EVERY opinion is welcome and I am getting tired of folks taking shots at posters who aren't NFFC veterans. EVERY opinion counts.
I don't think this will be that tough a call for me and Tom. Our goal is still to reward the best teams with the most money, while also keeping as many teams fighting as long as possible. I can't just create prizes to keep the 10th team fighting 'til the end; everyone should be man or woman enough to have enough pride to do that. But I think we can improve the system, just like we did with the Classic when we added a third team there making the Championship Round. Remember, only two teams made the Championship Round in the Classic the first 6 years; now three teams from each league make it and Wild Cards increased from the top 10% to top 15%.
Change is never easy. But this post is as relevant to me as the posts that asked for changes. I just don't think it's that tough to tweak our contest so that we make it better and more appealing for folks who want to play for big, big prizes next year. We'll get it done thanks to all the input from you folks. This is a very much needed post from the NFFC. It addresses the so called "Chum Chum" club perception. There are many who believe that only a select number of players opinions matter to the NFFC. These concerns are usually posted by the newest members.
The fact that this comes up each year suggests that there is something to the perception. I'm not saying it's there, I'm simply saying that the perception certainly is. This is brought up each year as is the determination of playoff spots and scoring.
For me I felt that way last year (my first). I feel much less that way this year but certainly understand when I see the posts referring to it. So it simply needs to be addressed and Greg has attempted to that here. I like it.
The so called club has moved onto their own thread having some fun showing themselves off as the mafia. I enjoyed the thread and attempted to inject a bit of humor into it myself. The perception from those outside of the club (our newest members) is an elitist attitude.
Right or wrong guys the perception is out there each and every year. This is a critical year for the NFFC (which year isn't) in that they are attracting many new players and want desperately want to retain these players. Listening to their concerns and making them feel every bit a part of the conversation is a huge step in that direction.
I think the post to Leave the NFFC As Is is very worthy and I don't think anyone should take personal shots at the poster or guess whether he's a first-year player or not. EVERY opinion is welcome and I am getting tired of folks taking shots at posters who aren't NFFC veterans. EVERY opinion counts.
I don't think this will be that tough a call for me and Tom. Our goal is still to reward the best teams with the most money, while also keeping as many teams fighting as long as possible. I can't just create prizes to keep the 10th team fighting 'til the end; everyone should be man or woman enough to have enough pride to do that. But I think we can improve the system, just like we did with the Classic when we added a third team there making the Championship Round. Remember, only two teams made the Championship Round in the Classic the first 6 years; now three teams from each league make it and Wild Cards increased from the top 10% to top 15%.
Change is never easy. But this post is as relevant to me as the posts that asked for changes. I just don't think it's that tough to tweak our contest so that we make it better and more appealing for folks who want to play for big, big prizes next year. We'll get it done thanks to all the input from you folks. This is a very much needed post from the NFFC. It addresses the so called "Chum Chum" club perception. There are many who believe that only a select number of players opinions matter to the NFFC. These concerns are usually posted by the newest members.
The fact that this comes up each year suggests that there is something to the perception. I'm not saying it's there, I'm simply saying that the perception certainly is. This is brought up each year as is the determination of playoff spots and scoring.
For me I felt that way last year (my first). I feel much less that way this year but certainly understand when I see the posts referring to it. So it simply needs to be addressed and Greg has attempted to that here. I like it.
The so called club has moved onto their own thread having some fun showing themselves off as the mafia. I enjoyed the thread and attempted to inject a bit of humor into it myself. The perception from those outside of the club (our newest members) is an elitist attitude.
Right or wrong guys the perception is out there each and every year. This is a critical year for the NFFC (which year isn't) in that they are attracting many new players and want desperately want to retain these players. Listening to their concerns and making them feel every bit a part of the conversation is a huge step in that direction.
Joe
Leave the NFFC AS IS
Originally posted by Sandman62:
My point was that if you haven't spent a couple/few years missing the playoffs by a spot or two or three (and as Glenn said, not had much fun from early on in the season due to the playoff format)...well, then maybe your opinion might change once you've had more experience (in this case, unenjoyable experiences). This isn't simply a matter of me suggesting "new players opinions don't count". Rather, for this particular argument, if you haven't walked a mile in the shoes of some who have, maybe you should wait a bit and report back when you have? That's not hard to understand either. :rolleyes: i have been here from the start and i have missed the overall playoffs by mere points and a spot or two. IT SUCKS.
i also realize that no matter how unfair it seemed, my team simply wasn't good enough.
My point was that if you haven't spent a couple/few years missing the playoffs by a spot or two or three (and as Glenn said, not had much fun from early on in the season due to the playoff format)...well, then maybe your opinion might change once you've had more experience (in this case, unenjoyable experiences). This isn't simply a matter of me suggesting "new players opinions don't count". Rather, for this particular argument, if you haven't walked a mile in the shoes of some who have, maybe you should wait a bit and report back when you have? That's not hard to understand either. :rolleyes: i have been here from the start and i have missed the overall playoffs by mere points and a spot or two. IT SUCKS.
i also realize that no matter how unfair it seemed, my team simply wasn't good enough.
Leave the NFFC AS IS
hope playoff teams executed a contingency plan for this...
SI's Jim Trotter reports that the NFL has suspended Redskins TE Fred Davis four games for failed drug tests. If upheld, Davis won't play again after today's game.
I'm sure some people will claim "bad luck" on this, but there was a chance this could happen when the "news" broke a few weeks ago.
I wonder if we should expand to 10 playoff teams per league to help make up for situations like this
SI's Jim Trotter reports that the NFL has suspended Redskins TE Fred Davis four games for failed drug tests. If upheld, Davis won't play again after today's game.
I'm sure some people will claim "bad luck" on this, but there was a chance this could happen when the "news" broke a few weeks ago.
I wonder if we should expand to 10 playoff teams per league to help make up for situations like this
Leave the NFFC AS IS
I never said it was unfair. Nor did I say that new players opinions don't count. Please don't paint me as the bad guy here. Geez.
I think valid points are being made though. We shouldn't be surprised and complain about deadbeat owners and their effect on the competition when only 2 of 12 teams make the playoffs.
And my point about "hang around a bit" wasn't to suggest that newcomers' opinions don't matter. But opinions without experience are often hollow, IMO.
DoubleG, great for you if whenever you miss the playoffs narrowly that you chalk it up to "Oh well, my bad". And with that, I agree (not necessarily "bad", more likely "unlucky" or a combo of both). That still doesn't make me a whining crybaby if based on a few years of that, I (and potentially many others) decide not to return. As many have said, the point here is to try to grow the events. Continually shutting out 10 of 12 teams doesn't seem likely to help in that regard, IMO.
[ December 04, 2011, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
I think valid points are being made though. We shouldn't be surprised and complain about deadbeat owners and their effect on the competition when only 2 of 12 teams make the playoffs.
And my point about "hang around a bit" wasn't to suggest that newcomers' opinions don't matter. But opinions without experience are often hollow, IMO.
DoubleG, great for you if whenever you miss the playoffs narrowly that you chalk it up to "Oh well, my bad". And with that, I agree (not necessarily "bad", more likely "unlucky" or a combo of both). That still doesn't make me a whining crybaby if based on a few years of that, I (and potentially many others) decide not to return. As many have said, the point here is to try to grow the events. Continually shutting out 10 of 12 teams doesn't seem likely to help in that regard, IMO.
[ December 04, 2011, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]