PAID FANTASY FOOTBALL INFORMATIONAL SITES? WORTH IT?

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:36 am

Originally posted by Coltsfan:
I didn't realize the 7/31 was a winner take all. That league is definitely over. Thanks for running the DC auctions - that is my favorite satellite format. It is the best of both worlds.

Wayne No problem Wayne as they were a lot of fun! Yea, the 7/31 is a WTA, where the 8/14 is $800/$400/$200 and Brandon Carriere (1st) and you (2nd) are locked in, while it is a dogfight between Tomatoes, Big MO, and myself for 3rd.

[ December 15, 2007, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

dcc1973 · Post by **dcc1973** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:06 am

Originally posted by weber:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
quote:Originally posted by weber:
quote:Originally posted by 3INT/BFDFANTASYfootball.com:
quote:Originally posted by weber:
quote:Originally posted by 3INT/BFDFANTASYfootball.com:
I bet the number of people that don't own sites far out numbers the people that do.
Seems obvious, so it also seems obvious that the people who put themselves out there with an opinion also run the risk of not making the playoffs.
So here's the catch 22, as alluded to by the legend himself.

If you compete and make the playoffs then you "should have" because you own a site.
If you don't compete, no shot of making the playoffs.
If during the draft you don't follow you cheatsheet to the letter, you open yourself up for critisism, as if during a experts draft here or someplace else everything goes perfectly.

It's impossible, so I would imagine most site owners don't compete in the NFFC or WCOFF because you expose yourself to losing, and I guess thats not suppossed to happen.

Fortunatley, I'm a FF player, and I have a healthy track record to show for my efforts, plus, quite frankly, I know football and the workings of it so well I have a nice viewpoint for FF.

So, sometimes you have a bad year, while trying to make a buck, and when you do, someone will point it out. That's the price of trying to be successful, not a problem here.

3'
Main Event League Champion in:
WCOFF
Fantasy Jungle
AFFL
Fantasy Masters
NFFC
Most Points Regular Season in WCOFF outscoring 680+ teams
Lead overall scoring in:
Fantasy Masters
Payday Sports

Find me a site owner that can say THAT? Main event champions in these events.. how about being specific so we can substantiate it in terms of what the entry fees were in each league you claim to have won and what years you are referring to>?

How'd you do this year and last year? you could have won a league title in a 25.00 league for all we know.. give us how many leagues you actually entered including satellites and how many you have actually won over past 5 years. [/QUOTE]OK
WCOFF 6 Teams plus 2 satellite Teams in Total
My WCOFF Record:
2 DNP's
2 3rd place game wins Missed LCG by 8 points and 13 points in these two years
1 League Championship
1 League Championship game loss
1 Satellite League DNP
1 Satellite League Championship
6 Main Event WCOFF Teams, only paid for 5.
Won $5000+$1500+$2000=$8500
Spent on entry fees about $7500

NFFC
3 Main Event entries 2 satellites
1 Satellite DNP ($250 No D team)
1 Satellite in second place currently
2 DNP in Main event
1 League Championship
So aboiut $4,000 spent
League Championship=$5000

Fantasy Jungle
Entered Main Event 3 Times
Missed LCG 1st year by an incredible .08 points
Won League last year
Made Championship Round this year as a Wild Card
So about $1500 spent, $1,200 made back

AFFL
Won my league
1st year spent $1400 Won $3,300

Fantasy Masters:
Only 1 of these happened cannot recall the cost think it was $250. Won $500, lost LCG

In addition as I stated I have lead the WCOFF in total scoring after 11 weeks, Fantasy Masters, Payday Sports in scoring during their regular season. Been Top 10 in Jungle Scoring and Top 15 in NFFC scoring.

So basically Weber, your argument is screwed.

3' [/QUOTE]when you enter 100 games a year your going to get a win here and there.. it's like throwing 100 darts at the dart board eventually one will hit, and thats the one even though you've thrown 1000 , to substantiate your knowledge..LOL..

People see through that though.. you talk about near misses.. a miss is a miss.. it's a loss.. [/QUOTE]I totally disagree with this Weber.

You for example are 0 for 3 this year and need to win this week to make it not 0 for 4 in your NFFC career. I was 9 of 18 in NFFC leagues (MAKING money) before this season, and I am 10-12 for 30 (a few leagues still on the line this season) in 4 years of NFFC (all different formats).

I would challenge ANYONE to hit out of even 20 leagues in VARIOUS NFFC formats at a 33-40% clip of MAKING MONEY in individual leagues. Trust me, it isn't as easy as it looks.

As for the "a miss is a loss", in fairness, you posted about 2 minutes on the NY auction board after you missed the auction playoffs this season how you would have made it "if this happened, he didn't get hurt, etc."

I'm not trying to pick on you here Weber, but if you are going to call others out (and have a blog), you need to practice what you preach.

Just my opinion. [/QUOTE]Billy the difference is i never claimed to be an expert.. im not selling advise..

the only thing im good at via ff football is auction leagues.. i got a team to the LCG again this year in wcoff..thats 4 years out of 4.. thats not horrible.. but im not trying to validate my record with anyone.. my blog is for fun.. not for advise..

i take no offense though.. [/QUOTE]For those of you not aware - in the NFFC auction leagues 6 of 14 teams make the playoffs, just one team shy of 50%. Weber's thoughts are that Lou must not be an expert because he didn't finish in the money in the NFFC main event this year. I think the same should apply to Weber as well. Thus, I don't want to hear Weber talking about how he's such an "auction expert" when he can't even finish in the top 40% of his auction league.

You're not much of an expert in the format Weber, because you believe you must have a 100% hit rate to be an expert.

Robert Zarzycki · Post by **Robert Zarzycki** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:40 am

One or two fantasy football seasons do not define a career or expert status. Actually, it'll take about 20-30 years before we really know who's the best of the best...

short term aberrations are too easy in this hobby.

Like I described in a previous post on the NFFC boards, I feel that the good fantasy football managers should win about 1 in every 4 years in a 12-team league, and about 1 in every 5 years in a 14-team league. This is based on my experience playing poker tournaments and ff leagues for a living.

Keep in mind, it'll take 20-30 years before we get some sort of concrete evidence on who is really really good in this hobby. In the meantime, it's fun to see who are the frontrunners for being the best of the best. -z-

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:24 am

Originally posted by Z-Men:
One or two fantasy football seasons do not define a career or expert status. Actually, it'll take about 20-30 years before we really know who's the best of the best...

short term aberrations are too easy in this hobby.

Like I described in a previous post on the NFFC boards, I feel that the good fantasy football managers should win about 1 in every 4 years in a 12-team league, and about 1 in every 5 years in a 14-team league. This is based on my experience playing poker tournaments and ff leagues for a living.

Keep in mind, it'll take 20-30 years before we get some sort of concrete evidence on who is really really good in this hobby. In the meantime, it's fun to see who are the frontrunners for being the best of the best. -z- Z Man.... I agree with the 4/5 year thing in general...

I don't think it will take 20-30 years though... 5-10 will do just fine, and there are a few that have already stuck their heads out, which would be expected dealing with about 1000+ players in both events...

Robert Zarzycki · Post by **Robert Zarzycki** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:28 am

5-10 years could do the trick playing at least 3-4 events per year. Then the # "trials" increases enough to make the sample size large enough with higher confidence levels. Oh love that statistics course I took in grad school! -z-

weber7777 · Post by **weber7777** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:11 am

Originally posted by David Comings:
quote:Originally posted by weber:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
quote:Originally posted by weber:
quote:Originally posted by 3INT/BFDFANTASYfootball.com:
quote:Originally posted by weber:
quote:Originally posted by 3INT/BFDFANTASYfootball.com:
I bet the number of people that don't own sites far out numbers the people that do.
Seems obvious, so it also seems obvious that the people who put themselves out there with an opinion also run the risk of not making the playoffs.
So here's the catch 22, as alluded to by the legend himself.

If you compete and make the playoffs then you "should have" because you own a site.
If you don't compete, no shot of making the playoffs.
If during the draft you don't follow you cheatsheet to the letter, you open yourself up for critisism, as if during a experts draft here or someplace else everything goes perfectly.

It's impossible, so I would imagine most site owners don't compete in the NFFC or WCOFF because you expose yourself to losing, and I guess thats not suppossed to happen.

Fortunatley, I'm a FF player, and I have a healthy track record to show for my efforts, plus, quite frankly, I know football and the workings of it so well I have a nice viewpoint for FF.

So, sometimes you have a bad year, while trying to make a buck, and when you do, someone will point it out. That's the price of trying to be successful, not a problem here.

3'
Main Event League Champion in:
WCOFF
Fantasy Jungle
AFFL
Fantasy Masters
NFFC
Most Points Regular Season in WCOFF outscoring 680+ teams
Lead overall scoring in:
Fantasy Masters
Payday Sports

Find me a site owner that can say THAT? Main event champions in these events.. how about being specific so we can substantiate it in terms of what the entry fees were in each league you claim to have won and what years you are referring to>?

How'd you do this year and last year? you could have won a league title in a 25.00 league for all we know.. give us how many leagues you actually entered including satellites and how many you have actually won over past 5 years. [/QUOTE]OK
WCOFF 6 Teams plus 2 satellite Teams in Total
My WCOFF Record:
2 DNP's
2 3rd place game wins Missed LCG by 8 points and 13 points in these two years
1 League Championship
1 League Championship game loss
1 Satellite League DNP
1 Satellite League Championship
6 Main Event WCOFF Teams, only paid for 5.
Won $5000+$1500+$2000=$8500
Spent on entry fees about $7500

NFFC
3 Main Event entries 2 satellites
1 Satellite DNP ($250 No D team)
1 Satellite in second place currently
2 DNP in Main event
1 League Championship
So aboiut $4,000 spent
League Championship=$5000

Fantasy Jungle
Entered Main Event 3 Times
Missed LCG 1st year by an incredible .08 points
Won League last year
Made Championship Round this year as a Wild Card
So about $1500 spent, $1,200 made back

AFFL
Won my league
1st year spent $1400 Won $3,300

Fantasy Masters:
Only 1 of these happened cannot recall the cost think it was $250. Won $500, lost LCG

In addition as I stated I have lead the WCOFF in total scoring after 11 weeks, Fantasy Masters, Payday Sports in scoring during their regular season. Been Top 10 in Jungle Scoring and Top 15 in NFFC scoring.

So basically Weber, your argument is screwed.

3' [/QUOTE]when you enter 100 games a year your going to get a win here and there.. it's like throwing 100 darts at the dart board eventually one will hit, and thats the one even though you've thrown 1000 , to substantiate your knowledge..LOL..

People see through that though.. you talk about near misses.. a miss is a miss.. it's a loss.. [/QUOTE]I totally disagree with this Weber.

You for example are 0 for 3 this year and need to win this week to make it not 0 for 4 in your NFFC career. I was 9 of 18 in NFFC leagues (MAKING money) before this season, and I am 10-12 for 30 (a few leagues still on the line this season) in 4 years of NFFC (all different formats).

I would challenge ANYONE to hit out of even 20 leagues in VARIOUS NFFC formats at a 33-40% clip of MAKING MONEY in individual leagues. Trust me, it isn't as easy as it looks.

As for the "a miss is a loss", in fairness, you posted about 2 minutes on the NY auction board after you missed the auction playoffs this season how you would have made it "if this happened, he didn't get hurt, etc."

I'm not trying to pick on you here Weber, but if you are going to call others out (and have a blog), you need to practice what you preach.

Just my opinion. [/QUOTE]Billy the difference is i never claimed to be an expert.. im not selling advise..

the only thing im good at via ff football is auction leagues.. i got a team to the LCG again this year in wcoff..thats 4 years out of 4.. thats not horrible.. but im not trying to validate my record with anyone.. my blog is for fun.. not for advise..

i take no offense though.. [/QUOTE]For those of you not aware - in the NFFC auction leagues 6 of 14 teams make the playoffs, just one team shy of 50%. Weber's thoughts are that Lou must not be an expert because he didn't finish in the money in the NFFC main event this year. I think the same should apply to Weber as well. Thus, I don't want to hear Weber talking about how he's such an "auction expert" when he can't even finish in the top 40% of his auction league.

You're not much of an expert in the format Weber, because you believe you must have a 100% hit rate to be an expert. [/QUOTE]i've only played in the NFFC auctionone year i was talking about WCOFF...

as for this year in NFFC, just got killed with injuries and couldn't recover.. i think getting to LCG i WCOFF is definitely tougher then NFFC by the numbers.. this year, i just had no 2nd rb and lost receiver after receiver ona consistent basis.. no excuse, but my team just didn't perform..

weber7777 · Post by **weber7777** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:14 am

and yourprobably correct,. expert is the wrong word to use.. i agree.. i'll just say im better in auction then regular serpentine.. thats all..

My point Dave is that just because you run a site doesn't mean you have more knowledge then me or you.. there are some impressive players who consistently get into the LCG every year... in the main events thats impressive.. im not one of them.. but for the most part, it's like the World Poker Tour., when you have so many players, winning every once ina while will be the norm..

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:34 am

I like the thread idea. What I find unfortunate is the requirement to defend your individual league results as a FF site owner.

When you participate in these high-stakes leagues, most are capable of forming a competitive team. Will you always win? No. I like Z-men's offering of 1-4 years for a WCOFF or 1-5 years of a NFFC to make you "credible".

I don't claim to be an expert. I do own a small FF site that tries to cater to those that want league-specific cheat sheets. I do offer in-season input and suggestions, but that is, as someone posted, just one man's opinion.

There are some terrific minds in our game. Not to call anyone out, but Wayne (Coltsfan) and I exchanged thoughts priot to the drafts and he has developed an excellent tool and along with quality projections, there is no doubt why Wayne is extremely competitive in these games.

I'm sure there are others as well.

I have appreciated the input of some of the posters here. I've even asked a few to write for my site.

I don't feel the need to defend my results just because I have a site. I also don't think others need to do so either. Everyone has the choice to either subscribe or not to pay sites. But, I don't see the need to bash sites if that particular year they didn't help you.

I subscribe to a couple of site already mentioned in this thread. I'll probably subscribe to Lou's, and Jules' next year. If Wayne started one, I'd subscribe to his as well.

I unfortunately have to agree with Lou and others on the board that much of the fun has gone away this season due to the constant fighting between a few of the posters. Also, it seems that some of the posters have a chip on their shoulder and appear more interested in arguing than exchanging ideas.

Not that my input is needed, as it certainly isn't. But, I too, cut down my MB participation throughout the year.

As for next year, I'll again try to offer a product to a niche FF market. I'm also interested in more guest writers for my site. If you have a desire to write a piece feel free to PM me.

Season's Greeting to all!

[ December 15, 2007, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: ultimatefantasyfootballcheatsheets ]

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:09 pm

Season's Greetings to you too Russ...

I think Fantasy Football Cheatsheets are a hot commodity. Your site is catering to what people are looking for. I like to do my own, but I didn't see a post season this year for the first time in over a decade and a half...So who am I to question other's cheat sheets.

The site I paid for this year was fantasyguru. John Hansen knows his stuff, but you'd swear that SO DO WE, since we play in such a high level of competition. I think his analysis of players is pretty solid, but his page is FULL of different categories. In fact, I honestly believe it's TOO many categories. I feel like you can have a few solid types of information on a homepage to keep people coming back for more, but c'mon, wow, he has like 78 different categories and each has about 20 sub-texts...His videos are a great part of his site though.

But this past season, he was the first site I ever paid for, and next year I will do it the old fashionded "free" way, with exception to a magazine or 3 and their cheat sheets.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:30 pm

Originally posted by Diesel:
next year I will do it the old fashionded "free" way, with exception to a magazine or 3 and their cheat sheets. Don't forget about the FREE magazines you'll get prior to draft day -- FSM in da house