You can send 10 investigators to the same crime scene with the same set of clues. That doesn't mean all 10 would be able to solve the crime. The more skilled will do better more frequently.
While we all have the same potential access to the information available, not everyone deciphers the info the same way. Not everyone visits the same sites who present varying degrees of analysis. And not everyone builds their teams the same way with the information available.
The skill is in what you do with the info. The luck comes into play when other valiables are introduced, such as quality of opposition in league, health of your team, H2H scheduling quirks amongst others.
That's my $0.14
Now back to praising GT!!! Keep it up my man!
Hats Off To Golden Tornado
Hats Off To Golden Tornado
2008- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
-
Route Collectors
- Posts: 3525
- Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:00 pm
Hats Off To Golden Tornado
Originally posted by Just Russ:
You can send 10 investigators to the same crime scene with the same set of clues. That doesn't mean all 10 would be able to solve the crime. The more skilled will do better more frequently.
While we all have the same potential access to the information available, not everyone deciphers the info the same way. Not everyone visits the same sites who present varying degrees of analysis. And not everyone builds their teams the same way with the information available.
The skill is in what you do with the info. The luck comes into play when other valiables are introduced, such as quality of opposition in league, health of your team, H2H scheduling quirks amongst others.
That's my $0.14
Now back to praising GT!!! Keep it up my man! Sorry Russ but this is a poor example. We're trying to predict the future not piece together the past.
You can send 10 investigators to the same crime scene with the same set of clues. That doesn't mean all 10 would be able to solve the crime. The more skilled will do better more frequently.
While we all have the same potential access to the information available, not everyone deciphers the info the same way. Not everyone visits the same sites who present varying degrees of analysis. And not everyone builds their teams the same way with the information available.
The skill is in what you do with the info. The luck comes into play when other valiables are introduced, such as quality of opposition in league, health of your team, H2H scheduling quirks amongst others.
That's my $0.14
Now back to praising GT!!! Keep it up my man! Sorry Russ but this is a poor example. We're trying to predict the future not piece together the past.
Hats Off To Golden Tornado
Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
quote:Originally posted by rkulaski:
Really, that's what we do, we gather info based on what we see and read and then decide what to believe and what not to believe. That really is a large part of it. Not sure if I'd call that "skill." The same description can be made about the process involved in picking stocks and playing poker, even by the seasoned career professionals.
Both also have an element of luck and skill, learning previous data, extrapolating to the future, listening to a variety of opinions, playing the odds, learning from experience, playing hunches, etc. Most people would say that someone can develop a "stock-picking skill" or a "poker skill" based on this.
I don't understand why Fantasy Football players can't develop a level of "skill" in the same way? And that some FF players are more "skilled" than others and thus hold an advantage.
BTW...I feel complicit in this becoming a skill vs. luck debate which was not my intention and something I find distasteful. So this is my last post in this thread...thanks for listening.
[/QUOTE]My only point was sometimes it's simply staying on top of the info and news better than others. Not sure if that's a skill but rather simply working harder than the opposition. But, yes, no doubt there is some element of skill involved in fantasy football...obviously. Hey and good thing Congress agress it's a game of skill too!
Hey some guy named Lindy isn't the owner of the Golden Tornados, is he???
quote:Originally posted by rkulaski:
Really, that's what we do, we gather info based on what we see and read and then decide what to believe and what not to believe. That really is a large part of it. Not sure if I'd call that "skill." The same description can be made about the process involved in picking stocks and playing poker, even by the seasoned career professionals.
Both also have an element of luck and skill, learning previous data, extrapolating to the future, listening to a variety of opinions, playing the odds, learning from experience, playing hunches, etc. Most people would say that someone can develop a "stock-picking skill" or a "poker skill" based on this.
I don't understand why Fantasy Football players can't develop a level of "skill" in the same way? And that some FF players are more "skilled" than others and thus hold an advantage.
BTW...I feel complicit in this becoming a skill vs. luck debate which was not my intention and something I find distasteful. So this is my last post in this thread...thanks for listening.
[/QUOTE]My only point was sometimes it's simply staying on top of the info and news better than others. Not sure if that's a skill but rather simply working harder than the opposition. But, yes, no doubt there is some element of skill involved in fantasy football...obviously. Hey and good thing Congress agress it's a game of skill too! Hey some guy named Lindy isn't the owner of the Golden Tornados, is he???
Hats Off To Golden Tornado
Originally posted by Route C:
quote:Originally posted by Just Russ:
You can send 10 investigators to the same crime scene with the same set of clues. That doesn't mean all 10 would be able to solve the crime. The more skilled will do better more frequently.
While we all have the same potential access to the information available, not everyone deciphers the info the same way. Not everyone visits the same sites who present varying degrees of analysis. And not everyone builds their teams the same way with the information available.
The skill is in what you do with the info. The luck comes into play when other valiables are introduced, such as quality of opposition in league, health of your team, H2H scheduling quirks amongst others.
That's my $0.14
Now back to praising GT!!! Keep it up my man! Sorry Russ but this is a poor example. We're trying to predict the future not piece together the past. [/QUOTE]You've obviously never watched an episode of Criminal Minds. That's all about solving for the future.
quote:Originally posted by Just Russ:
You can send 10 investigators to the same crime scene with the same set of clues. That doesn't mean all 10 would be able to solve the crime. The more skilled will do better more frequently.
While we all have the same potential access to the information available, not everyone deciphers the info the same way. Not everyone visits the same sites who present varying degrees of analysis. And not everyone builds their teams the same way with the information available.
The skill is in what you do with the info. The luck comes into play when other valiables are introduced, such as quality of opposition in league, health of your team, H2H scheduling quirks amongst others.
That's my $0.14
Now back to praising GT!!! Keep it up my man! Sorry Russ but this is a poor example. We're trying to predict the future not piece together the past. [/QUOTE]You've obviously never watched an episode of Criminal Minds. That's all about solving for the future.
2008- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
Hats Off To Golden Tornado
Originally posted by Just Russ:
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
quote:Originally posted by Just Russ:
You can send 10 investigators to the same crime scene with the same set of clues. That doesn't mean all 10 would be able to solve the crime. The more skilled will do better more frequently.
While we all have the same potential access to the information available, not everyone deciphers the info the same way. Not everyone visits the same sites who present varying degrees of analysis. And not everyone builds their teams the same way with the information available.
The skill is in what you do with the info. The luck comes into play when other valiables are introduced, such as quality of opposition in league, health of your team, H2H scheduling quirks amongst others.
That's my $0.14
Now back to praising GT!!! Keep it up my man! Sorry Russ but this is a poor example. We're trying to predict the future not piece together the past. [/QUOTE]You've obviously never watched an episode of Criminal Minds. That's all about solving for the future. [/QUOTE]THE OTHER PROBLEM WITH YOUR EXAMPLE RUSS IS THE FACT THE DRAFT POSITION PLAYS A ROLE. JUST LIKE IF YOU DRAW THE 9TH PICK YOU KNOW WHAT PLAYERS YOU DON'T HAVE A SHOT AT.
VERSUS THE CRIME SCENE CLUES EVERYONE'S "DRAFT POSITION" IS THE EXACT SAME.
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
quote:Originally posted by Just Russ:
You can send 10 investigators to the same crime scene with the same set of clues. That doesn't mean all 10 would be able to solve the crime. The more skilled will do better more frequently.
While we all have the same potential access to the information available, not everyone deciphers the info the same way. Not everyone visits the same sites who present varying degrees of analysis. And not everyone builds their teams the same way with the information available.
The skill is in what you do with the info. The luck comes into play when other valiables are introduced, such as quality of opposition in league, health of your team, H2H scheduling quirks amongst others.
That's my $0.14
Now back to praising GT!!! Keep it up my man! Sorry Russ but this is a poor example. We're trying to predict the future not piece together the past. [/QUOTE]You've obviously never watched an episode of Criminal Minds. That's all about solving for the future.
[/QUOTE]THE OTHER PROBLEM WITH YOUR EXAMPLE RUSS IS THE FACT THE DRAFT POSITION PLAYS A ROLE. JUST LIKE IF YOU DRAW THE 9TH PICK YOU KNOW WHAT PLAYERS YOU DON'T HAVE A SHOT AT.VERSUS THE CRIME SCENE CLUES EVERYONE'S "DRAFT POSITION" IS THE EXACT SAME.
Hats Off To Golden Tornado
While that may be true, much of this is mitigated with KDS.
2008- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
Hats Off To Golden Tornado
Originally posted by rkulaski:
quote:Originally posted by Bob Squad:
quote:Originally posted by rkulaski:
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
Whatever the reason it's an amazing run Darren is having so far. His hunches have paid off and I for one would love to trade places with him this season.
I still don't understand the word "skill" being applied to what we do here. We read other writers facts and info and and try to speculate what it all means. This game isn't littered with beat writers and talent scouts....just a bunch of opinionated football lovers. We don't really do much besides read...ponder...read some more...watch football...phone a friend...poll the audience and use our 50/50 on certain draft choices.
If everyone does the same thing where is the edge we can gain to make this a game of skill. At best is a game of good guessing.
I told Billy if we are skillful because we agree with information cultivated by others then I want the same credit as Einstein when i agree with his "theory of relativaty" Route C,
Excellent post. Really, that's what we do, we gather info based on what we see and read and then decide what to believe and what not to believe. That really is a large part of it. Not sure if I'd call that "skill." [/QUOTE]I am in a great place. I think it takes a significant amount of skill and if I am wrong I'm so ignorant that I'll never realize it.
Bob [/QUOTE]heck i feel just the opposite, when I do well in fantasy football, i feel it takes a significant amount of luck. if i can just avoid the injury landmines every week and... kaboooom , there went owen daniels my starting te on 3 of my 5 teams. ugghh. kellen winslow- you better step up! [/QUOTE]Let me clarify:
I probably shouldn't have used the word 'significant' since it can be 10-90%, I was thinking WR3 kind of significant, not QB1 kind ...
Bob
quote:Originally posted by Bob Squad:
quote:Originally posted by rkulaski:
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
Whatever the reason it's an amazing run Darren is having so far. His hunches have paid off and I for one would love to trade places with him this season.
I still don't understand the word "skill" being applied to what we do here. We read other writers facts and info and and try to speculate what it all means. This game isn't littered with beat writers and talent scouts....just a bunch of opinionated football lovers. We don't really do much besides read...ponder...read some more...watch football...phone a friend...poll the audience and use our 50/50 on certain draft choices.
If everyone does the same thing where is the edge we can gain to make this a game of skill. At best is a game of good guessing.
I told Billy if we are skillful because we agree with information cultivated by others then I want the same credit as Einstein when i agree with his "theory of relativaty"
Route C,Excellent post. Really, that's what we do, we gather info based on what we see and read and then decide what to believe and what not to believe. That really is a large part of it. Not sure if I'd call that "skill." [/QUOTE]I am in a great place. I think it takes a significant amount of skill and if I am wrong I'm so ignorant that I'll never realize it.
Bob [/QUOTE]heck i feel just the opposite, when I do well in fantasy football, i feel it takes a significant amount of luck.
if i can just avoid the injury landmines every week and... kaboooom , there went owen daniels my starting te on 3 of my 5 teams. ugghh. kellen winslow- you better step up! [/QUOTE]Let me clarify:I probably shouldn't have used the word 'significant' since it can be 10-90%, I was thinking WR3 kind of significant, not QB1 kind ...
Bob
Luck in FF is like a game of Russian Roulette. The BWaz's of the world only have one bullet to spin - the rest of us have two. It's still mostly luck, but ...
-By Bob (For Gekko)
-By Bob (For Gekko)
Hats Off To Golden Tornado
The primary problem in the skill/luck debate is that everyone is thinking of a different sample size.
10 decisions on WDIS, FAAB, drafting, bye weeks, etc., tell absolutely nothing on a player's ability.
100 decisions tell very little
10,000 decisions reveal the player's skill level
There is such a high level of variability with individual FF decisions that a small sample size CANNOT be used to evaluate skill.
Bob
10 decisions on WDIS, FAAB, drafting, bye weeks, etc., tell absolutely nothing on a player's ability.
100 decisions tell very little
10,000 decisions reveal the player's skill level
There is such a high level of variability with individual FF decisions that a small sample size CANNOT be used to evaluate skill.
Bob
Luck in FF is like a game of Russian Roulette. The BWaz's of the world only have one bullet to spin - the rest of us have two. It's still mostly luck, but ...
-By Bob (For Gekko)
-By Bob (For Gekko)