Give Us Some Feedback On The Live Drafts

weber7777 · Post by **weber7777** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:36 pm

- i agree with a lot of others.. East Coast Draft has to be in Atlantic City.. i truly think that you could possibly attract almost as many people in Ac as any other location, put it in the Borgada and that would be special.

- Ny was uneventful.. too expensive to stay and people just break up and go their sep ways after draft. Whereas in vegas, if that happens, doesn't matter because there is so much going on.

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hoof · Post by **hoof** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:39 pm

Just Russ, come to Vegas then. Sounds like room rates are better and the overall experience is worth the extra flight cost.

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:55 pm

Originally posted by hoof:
Just Russ, come to Vegas then. Sounds like room rates are better and the overall experience is worth the extra flight cost. I appreciate what you're saying, I'm jusy giving feedback here. I know I'm not alone in my thinking.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:37 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:
No chicks ?! What will it cost to get some furries as moderators then ?

This reminds me of the episode from "Entourage"

CREATiVESPORTS-MARC · Post by **CREATiVESPORTS-MARC** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:00 am

I participated in the NFFC Main Event and PrimeTime by phone, just as I did the NFBC by phone.

Positives:
1)No issue with draft space. We spread out in a conference room with a speaker phone, computer, flat screen monitor mounted on the wall, and a white board.
2)The moderator through Mockdraftcentral knows the players, quickly and clearly repeated the selection that was just made, and posted it on mockdraftcentral.
3)Expenses are minimized – no hotel, no travel, no parking, no issues with food selection or food prices. The expenses that we saved were able to be rolled into a three-pack of on-line teams.
4)You can easily keep track of the players selected through multiple view options in mockdraftcentral.
5)The time between the two drafts was perfect. It was enough time to drive across the street, order some food, and bring it back to our conference room to eat and discuss any lessons learned from the early draft.

Negatives:
1)There is no “event” feeling. After having participated in some of the early WCOFF seasons in Las Vegas, the combination of the draft (with a sea of people and tables as far as you could see), ESPN Zone party, and camping out for a table at ESPN Zone on Sunday morning to watch the first set of real NFL games created some memories that will be remembered forever.
2)For the second time in a row (with NFBC baseball), the phone numbers sent out for the draft were incorrect. Since everyone is also on mockdraftcentral, having people also on their message board made the wrong phone number a minor nuisance as opposed to a real problem.
3)Sometimes there is background noise on the phone from other drafts. It sounds like all the mockdraftcentral people are in the same room running these drafts.
4)There was one guy in the PrimeTime draft that would not put his speakerphone on mute. No matter how many times the moderator asked, he would not do it. He was either holding a conversation on another phone or was with a bunch of other people. That was very annoying.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:52 am

Thanks for all the feedback on this thread folks. I didn't want to interrupt the flow of ideas and I don't want to answer each point on one big thread. But I would like to just explain our rationale on the original concept of the NFFC and then I'll individually address some of the other concerns later.

First of all, as I've said many, many times, when I went to the WCOFF in 2002 I was blown away by the idea of a live high-stakes event and the response from industry players. Remember, this was a time when free games were all the rage and here was a zig when others were zagging. I was excited by the possibilities.

I loved the renting of the entire ESPN Zone by Lenny and Emil those first couple of years and loved the idea of the event feel to everything. But I also knew that forcing folks to pay an Events Fee to cover your food & beverage costs and making them pay for a hotel room to cover your room minimums put more of the burden on the consumer rather than the game operator. It's the PERFECT way to take out risk from a game operator's standpoint and Lenny and Emil were right to start that way as private businessmen, but I was thinking more from the consumer's standpoint.

So when I first did our NFBC plan, I didn't create any Events Fee or make folks stay at our host hotels. Instead, I took all the risk on those expenses and paid the rental charges for the space. I have assumed these costs for each event in each city for six straight years. Other events even state today that their Events Fees go towards the food, the facilitators, the space, etc. I pay for all of that out of my net revenue and we always have.

There's no doubt we've gone on the cheap over the years when it comes to food, but again, that's another expense on top of the rental space and the rest. As some have suggested, we could just add a $50 Events Fee and we'd have all the burgers, hot dogs and ice cream we could enjoy. But I'm not sure everyone wants to pay $50 extra and I haven't asked. Maybe I should have. But my goal has always been to run a first-rate event and it really hasn't been my job to entertain you or feed you.

That being said, I think that will change in the future. Fanball.com is interested in making this more of an "event" feel. I like that. I think we can do that. Previously, the food expenses were watched extremely carefully and the bottom line didn't even work with curtailing those expenses, so my hands were tied unless I wanted to pass those costs onto you.

This is an easy one to figure out. If we want more excitement at the draft and more food and more drink and want 2-3 breaks per draft, we can have it all. Someone pays for it (maybe it's the game operator, maybe it's the consumer, maybe it's a title sponsor), but it comes from somewhere. I don't want to mess with the prize money. I'd rather not expense this to the entry fee. But anything is doable if someone steps up to pay for it.

When it comes to the NFFC, there is no doubt that we run the tightest ship on Draft Day. We start on time, we move the drafts quickly and we have one break. Nothing against the other events, but I really didn't need a break after Round 7 or a full lunch after Round 8. I had drafted for one hour and I was hungry?? Not me, I wanted to keep drafting. But that's just me. Most of the NFFC drafts were done in two hours, 1:45 for the Primetime. I'll gladly feed you if Ryan thinks that's the way to go, but I almost feel we owe participants who do both events food inbetween more than we need food in the middle of either the Classic or Primetime drafts. Just my two cents.

Besides, beer is food and I know we provided that in Las Vegas!!

The feedback is GREAT. Ryan and everyone at Fanball is taking it all in and making a list that we'll discuss. Trust me, WE WANT TO MAKE THIS MORE OF AN EVENT!!! We will. There were reasons why we didn't before this sale and I think most people realize why. But you can also blame me because I never chose to pass those costs onto you. Maybe I should have and then you all would have eaten better. But I didn't attempt that and we ate the costs. We'll figure out a plan going forward to make the events even better.

Good stuff. I'll have a few more thoughts in a bit. Thanks again all.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:13 am

Originally posted by Just Russ:
Greg/Ryan/Tom, here are my candid thougts:

Having drafted in Florida the last 2 years, I was completely turned off to the live events. It still turns me off to hear about the special treatment that the Vegas participants get. We all pay the same entry fee, yet don't get close to the same experience.

I'm all for adding in $50 to make it even for all cities. I would not want to do that unless there were benefits for all. This means either a pre-draft party or something between drafts. I would guess many participants leave right after the drafts are over and would do so even if there were a post-draft party.
I want to address this post quickly because we really do our best to make sure each city has the same experience. Unfortunately Russ, when Orlando or Tampa has only two full leagues, it's a turnoff for us too. We had every intention of making Florida as enjoyable as Las Vegas, but when the participation isn't there then it makes it tough to make it a big party. Same with Chicago this year. We had hoped for 6+ leagues per event and our numbers decreased in the Windy City rather than increased.

But that being said, our situation in Las Vegas is definitely different than the other cities. Las Vegas is the only city where our contract has big minimums for rooms and food & beverage. It's not our most costly city, but the contract is set up where we are rewarded for spending more on drinks and food. In other words, our rental space goes down the more we spend, so it allows us to throw a Friday night poker party and provide more drink tickets during the draft because in the end if we don't do that we're paying for the space anyway. It's a great contract for us, but it's different than what we do in the other cities. That might change in the future as we move away from the Flamingo, but for the time being they have been pretty damn good to us.

In the other cities, we have chosen to rent the space rather than take out room blocks because we know many of you commute to the drafts and then go home. We may have to position ourselves differently in those other cities going forward, but it was a hit and a hit in NY, Chicago and Florida when it came to space and food. So everything on top of our original order was a big expense to us, especially in New York. An Events Fee would have been the way to solve that, but as I just stated I chose not to do that or even ask my customers if they wanted it. I'll take the blame for that.

But with Tom in New York, me in Las Vegas and Charlie or someone else on our team running Chicago, we feel like we have the right staff to make each city unique and special. Now we have to figure out the costs to run each more similarly with some of the amenities you folks are requesting.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:17 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:
I assume you are looking for candid responses…If you’re looking for growth and more market share, scrap the 14 team event and go to a 12 team only event with multiple times slots over draft weekend to draft in the main event (or even two or three separate main events).

Most potential new customers are playing in 8, 10 or 12 team leagues. It’s a HUGE leap of faith for them to jump into a 14 team league, where injuries (and/or a less than stellar draft) can cripple your chances of winning much more quickly than in a 12 team league.

There’s a reason why you started a 12 team Primetime main event last year. There’s also a reason why you made the online championship a 12 team event and got over 500 signups IN YOUR FIRST YEAR!!!

It would be a mistake to abandon the 14-team format. Hell, we've given away $100,000 for six straight years to the 14-team champion, so what's wrong with the model?

In America, you can have your cake and eat it too. I see a scenario where the NFFC is dominant in the 14-team marketplace and in the 12-team marketplace. Why choose just one when we've already established ourselves in the toughest format and can easily figure out how to be even more dominant in the 12-team format. I think that part is easy.

Nah, I like the NFFC Classic too much to ever abandon it. And the doubleheader is a favorite of mine as well. We don't need to tear down the NFFC to make it better. In fact, we need to build!!

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:38 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
And the doubleheader is a favorite of mine as well. We don't need to tear down the NFFC to make it better. In fact, we need to build!!

doubleheader. personally i think you have enough time for a TRIPLE HEADER on Saturday. if everyone gets over the boogeyman of having the LV draft start at the same time as the NY draft. again, look at all the $350 online champ leagues that are spread out over a week. no one is complaining about loss of integrity in that 30K contest. why complain in the main events?

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:40 am

6pm Friday PrimeTime Main Event
10am Saturday Classic Main Event
2pm Saturday Classic Main Event
6pm Saturday PrimeTime Main Event