NFFC Rules Survey Going Out This Week

[Route C]

I acknowledge your point here Chad...and I think you see the validity of my point as well so let the masses speak as Greg posts his survey. I've been here since day 1 of the NFFC and I will support the majority whether I agree with it or not. It is frustrating to me though when another owner is so insistent on having things their way. You just don't seem very pliable or care much about how the other side of this debate feels. If the vote goes your way I will adjust the same way I have for 9 seasons now. hopefully you will do the same.

[Money]

The answer here is very simple.

Get the NFL to do away with the Thursday game. Problem solved.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

I went back and looked at every Wednesday's FAAB run for each of the 35 Primetime leagues. I figured this would be the most relevant, as these leagues are almost always competitive and the pool is usually deeper than a 14-team event. I isolated all of the QBs, RBs, WRs and TEs that were picked up in 5 or more Primetime leagues in a given week, and then determined how many of those players were slated to play on Thursday night. Here's what I found:

Week 2 (Bears at Packers)
22 players
0 Bears or Packers

Week 3 (Giants at Panthers)
29 players
3 Giants (Andre Brown, Ramses Barden, Rueben Randle), 0 Panthers

Week 4 (Browns at Ravens)
31 players
2 Browns (Jordan Cameron, Chris Ogbonnaya), 1 Raven (Jacoby Jones)

Week 5 (Cardinals at Rams)
22 players
3 Cardinals (Kevin Kolb, Michael Floyd, William Powell), 0 Rams

Week 6 (Steelers at Titans)
31 players
0 Steelers, 1 Titan (Jamie Harper)

Week 7 (Seahawks at 49ers)
28 players
2 Seahawks (Doug Baldwin, Russell Wilson), 0 49ers

Week 8 (Bucs at Vikings)
20 players
1 Buc (Dallas Clark), 0 Vikings

Week 9 (Chiefs at Chargers)
15 players
0 Chiefs, 1 Charger (Ronnie Brown)

Week 10 (Colts at Jaguars)
24 players
3 Colts (T.Y. Hilton, Laurent Robinson, Dwayne Allen), 0 Jaguars

Week 11 (Dolphins at Bills)
14 players
0 Dolphins, 1 Bill (Scott Chandler)

Week 12 (Texans at Lions, Redskins at Cowboys, Patriots at Jets)
17 players
1 Texan (Garret Graham), 0 Lions, 0 Redskins, 1 Cowboy (Lance Dunbar),1 Patriot (Julian Edelman), 2 Jets (Bilal Powell, Chaz Schilens)

Week 13 (Saints at Falcons)
17 players
0 Saints, 0 Falcons

So for the entire season, including a busy Thanksgiving, a total of 23 Thursday players were picked up 5 or more times on Wednesday night. 23 out of 270 pickups is 8.5%, which on the surface is still significant. However, let's look at how many of these guys were actually IMPACT free agents on the week in which they were picked up:

Andre Brown (Wk3) - 28.0
Ramses Barden (Wk3) - 22.8
Rueben Randle (Wk3) - 1.4
Jacoby Jones (Wk4) - 3.7
Chris Ogbonnata (Wk4) - 2.8
Jordan Cameron (Wk4) - 2.5
Kevin Kolb (Wk5) - 13.6
William Powell (Wk5) - 5.7
Michael Floyd (Wk5) - 2.7
Jamie Harper (Wk6) - 6.1
Russell Wilson (Wk7) - 6.1
Doug Baldwin (Wk7) - 3.5
Dallas Clark (Wk8) - 7.0
Ronnie Brown (Wk9) - 12.3
Laurent Robinson (Wk10) - 15.7
Dwayne Allen (Wk10) - 5.1
T.Y. Hilton (Wk10) - 3.0
Scott Chandler (Wk11) - 5.0
Julian Edelman (Wk12) - 13.7
Bilal Powell (Wk12) - 13.3
Lance Dunbar (Wk12) - 5.9
Garrett Graham (Wk12) - 4.7
Chaz Schilens (Wk12) - 3.8

From this, we see that only 6 -- 4, excluding Thanksgiving -- Thursday-game players this year were "impact" pickups. Certainly not a staggering number by any means.

This completely misses the point some of us are making about CONDITIONAL BIDS. I know you are smart enough to understand the problem it would cause. After thinking it through, I finally understood why you feel as you do. Nobody has a better record of being Rainman on bid amounts than you do on Friday football bidding over the years. You nail the perfect amount every time. That however should not outweigh logic going away from the free agent process. Never has there been a game where people are not all evaluated in the same period. And it should remain that way for the reasons I have pointed out as well as others like Cali Cartel.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

I acknowledge your point here Chad...and I think you see the validity of my point as well so let the masses speak as Greg posts his survey. I've been here since day 1 of the NFFC and I will support the majority whether I agree with it or not. It is frustrating to me though when another owner is so insistent on having things their way. You just don't seem very pliable or care much about how the other side of this debate feels. If the vote goes your way I will adjust the same way I have for 9 seasons now. hopefully you will do the same.

I don't know what your point is exactly so feel free to point it out. Do you think that it should be Thursday only players? If so, then can you explain why you think that is better? I am struggling to hear very many good reasons thus far, thus I don't see it as even being a "debate." Maybe you can enlighten me.

The amount of time someone has been here, or the amount of money one spends here should have nothing to do with it. It is about using good sense to get the rules correct. And at the end of the day, when the rules are written we all get the chance to vote with our wallets, so there is no harm in any decision that gets made. If we like the rules we can play, if it is a big enough deal that we don't want to we can do that too. Not the end of the world either way.

[HOF]

Will everyone get a chance to reply? In three years I have yet to get one or do these only go to select people?

Thanks

[Greg Ambrosius]

I'd like to get some feedback on the three rules proposals I mentioned last week and if we have followup questions to ask or other areas of concern, we can do another survey again. If you are a paying member of the NFFC this year, you should receive this survey via email this week. Here are the 3 questions you'll find on the survey along with an equal explanation of the Pros and Cons for the two FAAB offerings:

1. The NFFC currently has two FAAB periods per week: A full FAAB on Wednesday night and a partial FAAB on Friday night. We are presenting two options for 2013, so please pick one:

a) The current setup where we have two FAAB periods: full FAAB late Wednesday night and a second FAAB on Friday night for all remaining free agents
b) A change to Wednesday night FAAB for just the players involved in the Thursday Night Game and then FAAB for all remaining players on Friday night. No players who were cut on Wednesday could go into the Friday free agent pool.

Pros and Cons for selection a):
** You have full access to all of the players at the same time and can do thorough waiver wire work once a week, although you don't have full disclosure on all injuries or starting jobs. The earlier deadline can lead to some bad drops or bad bids. The Friday second FAAB does allow owners to add emergency pickups before the weekend's games and the extra time after Wednesday's FAAB is a welcome luxury.

Pros and Cons for selection b):
** The two extra days for waivers would give owners more time to make waiver wire decisions and provide more timely information, but owners would have to bid on Thursday players before knowing if they can get the rest of the available free agents, making Conditional Bids very difficult. Comprehensive free agent process would need to be done twice a week now instead of just once.

2. Would you like to see individual NFL players receive special teams points for punt and kickoff TD returns, along with rewarding the team Defense/Special Teams that produced the TD 6 points? In essence, a Special Teams would get 6 points AND the individual player would get 6 points for those NFFC owners.

Yes
No

3. The NFFC currently awards 6 points to QBs for each passing TD and -1 point for each Interception. Would you be in favor of increasing points for interceptions from -1 to -2?

Yes
No

[BigBlueNation]

1) A - I've had no issues with the present FAAB process. It's as close to one FAAB period/week as we're going to get. Friday is like a backup plan.
2) NO - Not sure of the advantage doing this. It's just another statistic toward player evaluation.
3) NO - 6 pts per TD vs 4, -1 pt per int vs -2, again, just another statistic.

Kinda like fantasy baseball people arguing to replace BA with OPS because OPS is a better indicator of player performance. They're just numbers.

[ForLoveOfTheGame]

I absolutely did not want two waiver periods in the vote last year but I ended up not minding how it worked out. I totally agree with Chad in all players should be bid on at one time, couldn't agree more with that actually. I also agree with whomever suggested that we should be able to cut players from Thusdays game on Friday if we want.

[CALI CARTEL]

3) NO - 6 pts per TD vs 4, -1 pt per int vs -2, again, just another statistic.

Kinda like fantasy baseball people arguing to replace BA with OPS because OPS is a better indicator of player performance. They're just numbers.

They are just numbers, but I just don't understand the point of the -1 INT or FUM? They don't hurt you much, they are just like wind blowing by the stats of my team, they don't impact your rosters on a weekly basis. I'd rather have 0 than -1, but that's kinda weak -- but there's no point in just having -1 especially in a league that gives 6 for Pass TD's. DraftStreet uses 4 for PTD and -2 for INT -- that's a ratio that's 3 times larger than our 6-to-1 format.

Here's the current points per game from Pass TD & Interceptions via the NFFC system in place right now (and next to them their rankings if you just eliminated the INT altogether):
1. Drew Brees = 14.2 (1 - 15.5)
2. Aaron Rodgers = 13.8 (2 - 14.5)
3. Peyton Manning = 13.8 (2 - 14.5)
4. Tom Brady = 12.2 (4 - 12.5)
5. Andy Dalton = 10.9 (5 - 12.0)
6. Ben Roethlisberger = 10.9 (7 - 11.3)
7. Josh Freeman = 10.8 (6 - 11.5)
8. Matt Ryan = 9.9 (8 - 11.0)
9. Matt Schaub = 9.8 (9 - 10.5)
10. Ryan Fitzpatrick = 9.0 (10 - 10.0)
11. Carson Palmer = 8.9 (10 - 10.0)
12. Russell Wilson = 8.8 (12 - 9.5)
13. Tony Romo = 8.3 (12 - 9.5)
14. Robert Griffin III = 8.2 (16 - 8.5)
15. Alex Smith = 8.1 (15 - 8.7)
16. Philip Rivers = 7.8 (14 - 9.0)
17. Chad Henne = 7.5 (19 - 8.0)
17. Kevin Kolb = 7.5 (19 - 8.0)
19. Jay Cutler = 7.2 (18 - 8.2)
20. Andrew Luck = 7.2 (16 - 8.5)

Of the top 20, only RG3 (with his minuscule 4 INT) takes a hit of more than 1 slot from the NFFC ranking; and Andrew Luck (with his larger 16 INT number) is the only player to jump more than 1 slot from the NFFC ranking.

If you go to a -2 system, then some of the garbage INT QB's actually start to take a slight hit (as they should, I mean if you are including a negative for INT, shouldn't there actually be some penalty?!?)...
1. Drew Brees = 14.2 (3 - 12.8)
2. Aaron Rodgers = 13.8 (1 - 13.2)
3. Peyton Manning = 13.8 (2 - 13.0)
4. Tom Brady = 12.2 (4 - 11.8)
5. Andy Dalton = 10.9 (7 - 9.8)
6. Ben Roethlisberger = 10.9 (5 - 10.4)
7. Josh Freeman = 10.8 (6 - 10.2)
8. Matt Ryan = 9.9 (9 - 8.8)
9. Matt Schaub = 9.8 (8 - 9.0)
10. Ryan Fitzpatrick = 9.0 (11 - 8.0)
11. Carson Palmer = 8.9 (12 - 7.8)
12. Russell Wilson = 8.8 (10 - 8.2)
13. Tony Romo = 8.3 (15 - 7.0)
14. Robert Griffin III = 8.2 (13 - 7.8)
15. Alex Smith = 8.1 (14 - 7.6)
16. Philip Rivers = 7.8 (18 - 6.5)
17. Chad Henne = 7.5 (15 - 7.0)
17. Kevin Kolb = 7.5 (15 - 7.0)
19. Jay Cutler = 7.2 (19 - 6.2)
20. Andrew Luck = 7.2 (23 - 5.8)
Here we see a bunch of changes to the current rankings -- Brees drops to #3 with his 16 picks, Dalton drops a few slots with his 13 INTs, Andrew Luck actually takes a penalty for having nearly as many INT and TD's (16 vs 17).

I just think with how big the QB scoring is in this format (1 per 20 passing is 20% more than standard leagues, and 6 point TD's, either 50% more than standard or the same depending on your opinion of "standard") that we need to be penalizing the QB's a little more for turning the ball over -- the defense gets 2, why doesn't the QB lose 2? 0 or -2 are the choices, -1 is just meaningless.

[BigBlueNation]

VERY, VERY good info Cali. The one thing all this data doesn't show is how many times an interception ISN'T the QB's fault. Kinda tough to generically penalize the QB. But, if thats the route we choose to take, I'm ok with it. It's just a stat to consider when ranking players.

JMO