3RR In The NFFC: Necessary Or Unnecessary Evil?

[Greg Ambrosius]

I think we all agree that we ALL want this contest to continue to grow and be stable. Lord knows there's enough instability in this space to last a lifetime, so having a game that has legs is everyone's goal.

I don't disagree with either point. It's very possible that our growth of new players is hampered by our unique setup. That being said, the whole idea of KDS/3RR was to make it fairer for our current players, which allowed us to have an 80 percent retention rate for 12 years. Retaining players has been a key goal of ours and I think we've done that.

But I don't disagree that we all want to figure out the best way to grow the customer base and in turn the prize pool for our players. We can grow at a higher percentage than we have, but growth is definitely there. We're on pace for 5,000+ teams in the Online Championship and Cutline Championship, two very good entry level contests to bring in new customers.

I like the discussion. Good points all around. Even civil at times. Same goals in mind by everyone. That's what we like. And after drafts are done, we can discuss all of this. And we can thank Azzurri for that.

[Coyote Streakers]

NFFC runs a first rate contest and I love playing their events. I dont mind the 3RR and KDS at all and think it can help players who really map out their drafts well. I know some friends personally who have played fantasy for years but have never played here because they dont know what KDS or 3RR is without me explaining, and after I explain they get it but I can still see the uneasiness in their eyes as they aren't familiar with it. I know it sounds crazy but some players get intimidated very easily. Personally I like the 3RR and KDS because you have control over it, but other players just want you to tell them their draft slots and they dont want to have to worry about choosing a KDS or in their mind make a mistake. That's my personal take and as I stated above I love the NFFC, Tom and Greg run a great contest and cater to their players and have really fun leagues. They have it right by playing 13 weeks for regular season and their playoffs reward the best teams, I like that so kudos guys. At the end of the day there will always be opinions on both sides of the aisle and I know Tom and Greg will always listen to all their players and make decisions that's best for their contest and I respect that.

[Greg Ambrosius]

It's possible that you could say our playoff system hurts growth of new customers too. But again, we've set it up to reward the best teams. It's set up to be the fairest for our current players.

We don't have 11 week regular seasons like the industry leader had starting in 2002.
We don't use h2h playoffs in Weeks 12 and 13 because we believe total points is a better indicator of the dominant team.
We allow the top 3 teams from each league into the Championship Round, which we feel is fair.

That being said, our league payoffs can be confusing with the added three-week playoff for prize money. It's the fairest way to pay the best team, but maybe too complicated for the new player.

I think having a great marketing partner is a big key. That and an old list of very valuable names. And of course having great customer service, running great live events, easy-to-use software, quick payouts and fairness in running leagues. I think some of us in this space do most of them very well. But DFS is pushing us on technology and everything else, so we can never let down. It's all very, very competitive and I'd love to be the biggest and the baddest, but I don't think it's as simple as KDS/3RR. But again, that deserves analyzing, along with every aspect I just mentioned.

Keep It Simple Stupid isn't a bad philosophy. But when paying this much money to play a very competitive game with big prizes, setting up a format that's the most fair for all players deserves consideration. And that's how we got to where we are today. Hope that helps.

[Coyote Streakers]

It's possible that you could say our playoff system hurts growth of new customers too. But again, we've set it up to reward the best teams. It's set up to be the fairest for our current players.

We don't have 11 week regular seasons like the industry leader had starting in 2002.
We don't use h2h playoffs in Weeks 12 and 13 because we believe total points is a better indicator of the dominant team.
We allow the top 3 teams from each league into the Championship Round, which we feel is fair.

That being said, our league payoffs can be confusing with the added three-week playoff for prize money. It's the fairest way to pay the best team, but maybe too complicated for the new player.

I think having a great marketing partner is a big key. That and an old list of very valuable names. And of course having great customer service, running great live events, easy-to-use software, quick payouts and fairness in running leagues. I think some of us in this space do most of them very well. But DFS is pushing us on technology and everything else, so we can never let down. It's all very, very competitive and I'd love to be the biggest and the baddest, but I don't think it's as simple as KDS/3RR. But again, that deserves analyzing, along with every aspect I just mentioned.

Keep It Simple Stupid isn't a bad philosophy. But when paying this much money to play a very competitive game with big prizes, setting up a format that's the most fair for all players deserves consideration. And that's how we got to where we are today. Hope that helps.

Agree for the players the goal is to reward the best teams and you guys do that. I love that about NFFC.

[Coltsfan]

I really haven't chimed in yet but I love the discussion. It seems like kds and 3rr get lumped in together but one really has nothing to do with the other except that they are both unique to the nffc.

KDS - I love it! I would never even think about changing it. The only disadvantage was waiting to start drafts while people set it but now that you can set kds when you sign up it's perfect.

3RR - There is no right or wrong answer - only opinions. Mine is that it isn't needed. In nffc leagues this year I have a very strong preference for where I want to draft. In other competitions it really doesn't matter at all this year. So for me I would say that the events without 3rr are actually more fair this year. In the past I have felt like if I didn't get a top pick in those competitors league that I have a very small chance of winning because of the huge disadvantage. But because of how the projections fall this year they are more so fair than the nffc. But next year that may all change and the 3rr could balance out the draft once again. That's just my opinion and like I said there is no right or wrong. But if I was boss I would do away with it.


Wayne

[Tom Kessenich]

I don't think KDS should be a deterrent to anyone playing in the NFFC. If you don't like it or don't understand it don't set it. Simple. It's a way for people to have some input on where they could possibly be picking. But if having no input is what you prefer that option is still available.

[driftin]

Tom, Wayne, and Coyotes great posts. There is a very good marketing tool for the masses Tom. If you dont understand KDS, just doesnt matter you will receive your draft pick whether you set it or not. I basically agree with everything Wayne and Coyotes posted above.

[The Franchise]

NFFC runs a first rate contest and I love playing their events. I dont mind the 3RR and KDS at all and think it can help players who really map out their drafts well. I know some friends personally who have played fantasy for years but have never played here because they dont know what KDS or 3RR is without me explaining, and after I explain they get it but I can still see the uneasiness in their eyes as they aren't familiar with it. I know it sounds crazy but some players get intimidated very easily. Personally I like the 3RR and KDS because you have control over it, but other players just want you to tell them their draft slots and they dont want to have to worry about choosing a KDS or in their mind make a mistake. That's my personal take and as I stated above I love the NFFC, Tom and Greg run a great contest and cater to their players and have really fun leagues. They have it right by playing 13 weeks for regular season and their playoffs reward the best teams, I like that so kudos guys. At the end of the day there will always be opinions on both sides of the aisle and I know Tom and Greg will always listen to all their players and make decisions that's best for their contest and I respect that.

This was my exact point that I was trying to bring up in my first post. Nothing that I stated was how I felt about the NFFC,(I like and enjoy everything about NFFC), I was just trying to put myself in new players shoes. I also have friends that I have introduced to the NFFC who become a little apprehensive when it's time to draft because they are not familiar with 3RR. I end up having to do some hand holding to get them comfortable.........and these are experienced fantasy players who are in my local leagues and have been playing for years.

What Dave aka "Driftin" is trying to say is that in his opinion it's possible that people don't feel comfortable with 3RR, but are OK with 1.5 PPR for TE because every league has some form of PPR nowadays whether it's 1/2 pt or 1pt or 2pts. Not many standard leagues whether ESPN, Yahoo or whatever have 3RR (again I like it as is, but if Greg and Tom want my true outside the box opinion then that's what I came up with)

[CoMoHusker]

First off, I like KDS, as it gives me some control of where I draft. Every once in a while it's fun to just randomly get your pick and sit down and draft. However, a majority of the time I like to have some input on my preference and formulate some pre-draft strategy.

I'm also a fan of 3RR. If you feel that drafting towards the end of the draft gives an advantage then just set your KDS that way. As the data shows that Greg and Tom post, you have a pretty good shot at getting a top three preference. There are plenty of people that continue to set their KDS in favor of getting an early first round pick. I have a hard time believing if there was such an advantage to 3RR by drafting to the back that you'd continue to see those set their KDS the way they do. Everyone has differing strategies and I like the flexibility that the NFFC offers with KDS and 3RR.

I also don't necessarily think you can wait to the end of the season and just look at results to evaluate the impact of 3RR. There are way too many factors that play into a season. For example, if you were to look at last year's top finishers and how they set their KDS and how 3RR impacted their ability to put together a winning team, you would also have to look at their waiver acquisitions throughout the season. How many teams added OBJ which could have ultimately trumped any advantage gained (if there was one) by 3RR?

It's a mixed bag and I truly believe you can win from any draft position. KDS allows you some control over where you draft and if you think that "gimmick" produces an advantage, then set your KDS to capture of it. My opinion is no change needed.

[Dingf15]

Just looked at last years list of winners and they are all over the starting position map...I see no advantage in late or early picking based on that small sample size. Great discussion in this thread. Like I said before, 3RR is what makes this site unique and fun for those who enter contests here. Why change it? If the intent is to be like everyone else, why would that translate into more people joining the contest? After all, they are already playing the same contests on other sites...if NFFC becomes just like them, why would they leave that contest and come over to this one? I'm not sure we'd see a spike in newcomers like some have opined here. The other "big" site only gives 4 pts for QB passing TDs, which I personally think is terrible. Worth 6 in a game but only 4 in fantasy...so they get penalized for doing their primary job? Anyway, that's a tangent. Every site is different, people play here because they like 3RR so keep it. Changing it might actually drive loyal customers away.