Is There Any Interest In A $5K NFFC League?

Red Eye Possums · Post by **Red Eye Possums** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:22 am

Greg,

We would be interested depending upon the format. By the way, we also feel that your team has done a terrific job running this league and we are definitely in for next year. Thanks.

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:00 am

Greg-
I think I would be in for this type of league. My preference is Draft.
I would need a couple months to give you a final yes or no.Ditto for me, Greg.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:35 am

Brad Feinberg has also thrown his hat in the ring for this concept. Looks like there's interest after all.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:36 am

Here's a payout thought I had last night and tell me what you think. I may even use this type of format for the Auction Leagues next year (with different $ values, of course):

1) $10,000 for h2h regular season champ
@) $10,000 for total points season champ (other than h2h)
3) $5,000 for next high total points in regular season
4) 6 teams make playoffs; top 2 teams get byes
5) Super Bowl champion wins $25,000
6) Super Bowl runnerup wins $5,000
7) Third place game winner wins $3,000
8) No co-manager fees, obviously

This way three teams out of 14 get their money back. We reward the regular season's best teams with winnings. We still have $20,000 on the Super Bowl game, which is a lot and we pay off the top three in the regular season and in the playoffs. So there's different ways of winning.

This is an 83% payout before licensing or any other expenses. Again, we'd host this on Sunday, Sept. 4th and we'd hook up people in different cities via teleconference if we'd have to.

This is all stuff off the top of my head, so nothing is finalized, but it's a concept worth talking about. Thoughts?

Route Collectors · Post by **Route Collectors** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:24 am

Greg
I have some interest. The payout seems fair - 3 out of 14 breaking even with a chance for more is nice.

I agree with "Lumpy" on limiting it to the top 32 if possible. I'd hate to think I laid down that kind of cash to have the draft balance shift due to someones ridiculous selection ala "Buckhalter" this year. Of course an auction would limit the effects of something like that.

RC

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:37 am

Okay, you guys have convinced me enough that this has merit and I will make sure we plan for potential Sunday drafts in each city. I needed that information more than anything else as we sign final hotel contracts, set up work schedules over Labor Day weekend and more. Thanks as this helps a lot.

Those who have shown an interest so far:
1. King of Queens
2. Grumpy (Dyv)
3. Lumpy's Losers
4. Gekko
5. JonesFallsTerrace
6. Red Eye Possums
7. TamuScarecrow
8. Route C

You're not held to this list, but it's good to see interest from eight people in half a day. It proves to me the concept has merit.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:03 am

Count me in if Favre rekindles some love with my WR duo in the big event.

I've gotten SO close to cashing in my Meat Loaf bet but Driver has yet to put up 150 yards and 2 TD... this would be a nice time to fix that

Grumpy Dyv

Nag' · Post by **Nag'** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:21 am

Don't want to be the "Debbie Downer", but those of you worried about payout percentages are overlooking a much biggest expense - your favorite Uncle. If the Champion wins $35,000 from this league, he'll pay roughly $14,000 in taxes, leaving himself with $21,000 gross, and $16,000 net. That's a 3/1 return on your money in a BEST CASE scenario. Not blaming you, Greg...but this is how it is, and it ain't too attractive.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:40 am

Originally posted by Nag':
Don't want to be the "Debbie Downer", but those of you worried about payout percentages are overlooking a much biggest expense - your favorite Uncle. If the Champion wins $35,000 from this league, he'll pay roughly $14,000 in taxes, leaving himself with $21,000 gross, and $16,000 net. That's a 3/1 return on your money in a BEST CASE scenario. Not blaming you, Greg...but this is how it is, and it ain't too attractive. Debbie apparently does Dallas. You're pulling out 40% for taxes and not including deducting your entry fee(s) and expenses. And then you call that BEST CASE scenario?

Under your thought process nobody should work as making $200,000 per year is expensive, etc.

Come on, Nag - If you take $35,000 minus $5k entry fee and minus let's say $1,000 in expenses to get you to the live draft and hotel, subscriptions, etc. You're paying taxes on $29,000. If you are married and have a taxable income under $182,800 you're in the 28% tax bracket.. toss in.. maybe 4% for an average state tax and you're getting 32%. $29,000 X 32% = $9,280 in taxes out of $35,000 winnings = 26.5% taxes or a total return of over 500% AFTER TAX. You proposed it was 3/1. The difference between 3/1 and 5/1 payout makes you underestimating gross income by 40%.

If you make more than $180k per year then it's more taxes (about $1750 more) but it's still far less than you stated.

This is my thread to be grumpy on... stay off, Debs.

Dyv

Nag' · Post by **Nag'** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:48 am

While I'm certainly not qualified to get into a tax debate, I will tell you that deducting league fees and expenses against your winnings is a very "grey" area, as described by some CPA's. My CPA likes to use the term "creative" when something's not totally legit. So while he deducted everything I spend (fees, travel, computer, internet, etc) against my $5000 League Prize in WCOFF last year, I wouldn't be surprised if future FF winners will be getting a very unpleasant letter from the IRS questioning these practices.

My "40%" figure may be slightly exaggerated for some people, but that's a rough number I use for myself for any excess income, so I apologize. But even if you want to be an optimist and use Dyv's numbers, the return on your investment in a BEST CASE scenario is 5/1 while the odds of winning are 14/1. To the who find those odds appealing, I can only say....good luck (emphasis on LUCK)