Will KDS Work In 2007?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:43 am

Originally posted by Captain Hook:
All Play!

Easy and THE correct solution Yeah, but as others have said, it's not a familiar playing format for everyone. Would ALL PLAY help that 12-team league format grow or would it hurt growth?

It's probably the right answer, but is it a "quirky" format?

[ June 27, 2007, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Greg Ambrosius ]

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:12 am

I've never been able to rationalize the crying that goes on re: (having to/getting to) play your first two weeks opponents twice.

Team "First Pick" gets to play the teams closest to him in draft order (Team "Second Pick" and Team "Third Pick").

Same goes for other the draft spots.

To say Team "First Pick" is somehow too good to be playing Team "12th Pick" twice would indeed be saying the actual draft is completely unfair.

If you made the league this way...I'd bet despite all the crying...the drop-off in sign-ups because of this rule would be nil.

If WCOFF went to a 13 week regular season, replaying weeks one and two opponents in weeks 12 and 13. (REVENGE WEEKS) There would be as many happy (longer regular season) as crying. Those crying would still play. (IMO)

Just look at the THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of "low stakes" Yahoo/CBS/etc leagues, and home leagues using 12 team format and 4 week (or less) playoff formats.

~Lance

[ June 27, 2007, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:21 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
Greg, out of curiosity, how would you have handled the schedule for 12 teams and 13 weeks? That's a great question. I'd probably have replayed Weeks 1 and 2, but of course people would have complained. Still, I think I would have gone that way or just randomly mixed up the Week 12 and 13 matchups each year. I definitely wouldn't have done any seedings or power rankings or anything like that and I hated the 11 week regular season from the start. It's just not long enough for that kind of money, IMO.

How would you have handled it? [/QUOTE]11 week regular season

H2H Champ gets $2500
Points Champ gets $2500
Remaining $2500 goes to winner of 2-week league playoff

Week 12: 1 plays 4, 2 plays 3
Week 13: winners play each other

If the 3 or 4 seed is the winner of the Week 13 game, then they ALSO make the $100,000 championship round (in addition to the automatic bids secured by the H2H and points champs).

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:31 am

Glenn, what do all the other Consolation Round or Wild Card teams do during Weeks 12 and 13?? Seems like everyone else would just be watching while this mini-league playoff went on.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:01 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Glenn, what do all the other Consolation Round or Wild Card teams do during Weeks 12 and 13?? Seems like everyone else would just be watching while this mini-league playoff went on. Then split the field into the Top 4 and Next 8 (two teams stop playing after Week 11 -- pretty much what happens now anyway). Top 4 plays for $1500 (and a possible extra berth into the championship), Next 8 plays for $1000. The Bottom 10 playoffs goes like this:

Week 12:
5 plays 12
6 plays 11
7 plays 10
8 plays 9

Week 13:
(assuming all higher seeds win)
5 plays 8
6 plays 7

Week 14:
Week 13 winners play each other for $1000

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:05 am

Actually since there's already a $1000 third prize, the Top 4 playoff should be for $2500, not $1500.

slam · Post by **slam** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:17 am

I firmly believe that anyone can win from any draft position. This is due to the many skill sets required to win. It involves draft strategy, who you draft against, free agent acquisitions by you and opponents, injuries to your team and opponents teams, your start/bench decisions, and your opponents start/bench decisions, etc. I have never said you cannot win from a certain draft position. I do maintain that the traditional draft format as we know it does NOT give every team the same chance at winning. The facts indicate that having one of the top draft picks is an advantage to making and winning your league Championship game.

The facts are:
In 2006’
7 of the Top 10 WCOFF finishers were from the 1st and 2nd picks
9 of the Top 15 WCOFF finishers were from the 1st and 2nd picks

32 of 70 League Champs (46%) at WCOFF came from the 1st and 2nd picks
38 of 70 League Champs (54%) at WCOFF came from the 1st thru 3rd picks
13 of 70 League Champs (19%) at WCOFF came from the bottom 6 picks

79 of 140 spots (56%) in the League Championship game came from picks 1-3
112 of 140 spots (80%) in the League Championship game came from picks 1-6
28 of 140 spots (20%) in the League Championship game came from picks 7-12

From 2004-2006’
79 of 186 (42%) League Champions from 2004-2006 came from picks 1 and 2
92 of 186 (49%) League Champions from 2004-2006 came from picks 1-3

NFFC in 2006
18 of 32 (56%) Regular Season Total points Champs came from picks 1-3

12 of 23 (52%) League Champs came from picks 1 and 2
14 of 23 (61%) League Champs came from picks 1-3
18 of 23 (78%) League Champs came from top half of draft picks (1-7)

Both the results from the NFFC and WCOFF show that having a top half pick meant that you had a much better chance of being in the LCG and winning it. In both leagues almost 80% of the LCG champs came from the top half of the draft.

If I give someone one of the numbers that will be drawn for the lottery they will have an advantage over everyone else. Anyone else can win it. But they will not have the same chance of winning. The individual with the one known number has a better chance of winning the lottery. The same thing occurs with the top draft picks. By virtue of drafting first (top half of the picks) it appears to be a significant advantage to getting into the LCG.

When great FF competitors get together for these formats, any advantage that an individual has can be huge. Therefore any known “inequalities” based on a random drawing (draft spot) needs to be eliminated. I applaud the efforts of Greg Ambrosius to introduce 3RR and KDS. Both innovations attempt to neutralize what I have described as “draft position inequality”. I suspect that the 2007 NFFC data for League Champions will be evenly distributed among draft positions. By this I suspect approximately 50% of the LCG participants will be from the bottom half of the draft picks (as opposed to 20% in 2006). If this is the case, then others will soon follow the NFFC’s leadership.

Both contests (WCOFF and NFFC) are great endeavors and each has their own advantages and disadvantages. In many cases, the strength of one is a disadvantage of the other and vice versa. WCOFF is a more traditional league with 12 teams and a much larger cash prize for the winner. The NFFC provides an exciting 13 week regular season (14 team leagues) and innovative concepts such as 3RR and KDS. Both can survive, not as competitors but as equals in the high stakes Fantasy Football area. There is room for both! Many compete in both.

Shrink Attack · Post by **Shrink Attack** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:38 am

Slam...that's a friggin' great post!

And because of the equality of Draft Positions that I anticipate in the NFFC, I've elected NOT to play in the WCOFF this year.

[ July 09, 2007, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Shrink Attack ]

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:10 am

slam - the math is bad, but the sentiment is good