AFFL and Question to the NFFC

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:03 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by ultimatefantasyfootballcheatsheets:
But, I too wondered if the software was worth looking at from an NFFC/WCOFF perspective. I have no familiarity with Neil's software. All I can say is that from our perspective and the WCOFF's perspective, it wouldn't be wise for us to invest in our own software when there are quality options out there to do our back-end support for a nominal fee. It's an expense I can budget for and plan for and make ends meet at the end of the day. At this time it makes no sense to create such an expense or even take on all of that responsibility when I can pay STATS to do that for me. WCOFF must feel the same way. [/QUOTE]Greg, that makes sense. I was really thinking only if you could get it on the cheap, like at the Sheriff's Auction... not funny but entirely possible.

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:04 am

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Having played in the AFFL, (but knowing anything about software), I can tell you I don't personally see what the "hoopla" is all about.

For as much as we bitch about STATS (and many complaints are justified), the lineup process and even picking up free agents (which could be improved IMO) is FAR better than any other contest I have played in.

STATS has yet to "crash" like other sites, and it is pretty easily navigated, so I don't think there would be any use for Greg or Tom to purchase this software.

Again, maybe it does something I don't know, but for what it does for the PLAYER, I certainly don't see the hype. BW, which makes them spending the money to develop it in the first place a shame!

Too bad for all involved.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:08 am

I agree 100% Russ.

LFW · Post by **LFW** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:50 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Lightning Fast Whip:
Greg, you lost me on why a 20K winner take all contest is crazy. Is it better to pay out multiple places for fantasy regulation aspect? Or is it another reason I can't think of? Well, the key to making fantasy sports legal is the skill vs. luck factor. There's no question that a game like that if run over a full NFL season is a game of skill, but the winner-take-all aspect would likely raise some eyebrows. Does luck overweight skill in a Week 16 winner-take-all format for about $200,000?

Secondly, PayDay Sports has tried a higher level game at $10,000 per team and had trouble getting multiple leagues. I'm not saying it can't be done, but if it does get done I'd probably put my faith in a major media web site that has traffic to millions of potential players rather than an individual businessman who has no major outlets to draw in players outside of buying industry ads. Just my two cents after seeing what happened with AFFL.

Again, this may look good to you and you're more than welcome to jump in if it gets off the ground. For me, it's a buyer-beware market today. It's also a business-beware market because the quick hit business models of making a lot of money off higher priced games is the tougher model. Building from the ground up is the way to go, if you ask me. But what the hell do I know. [/QUOTE]Thanks for explanation. AND Regarding the Fantasy Sports Industry.. I believe You really know what you're talking about (so love to hear your takes on stuff like this) ...I'm just not quite sure that I understand..even after this explanation. You talk about 20K prize,then a 200K prize and then a 10,000 entry fee game..and then why it would need to be someone with big pool of players to draw from....
so is the 20K the entry fee of the new game like Paydays 10K entry fee game?
If so Then I have serious doubts (and agree that plan seems a bit crazy) about how many can afford to pay 20K entry fees..and also for those who could barely afford it I'm understanding how paying out a few more places like 2nd or 3rd could make a player a little more comfortable that they would cash to get something back.

If it's just a contest with say 100 entries and a $250 entry fee (Loseable amount to many players) and they choose to give whole payout of 20K to OA winner I think that's fine IF the game is designed to reward skill over long term (can't shorten that kind of contest with a sprint ..it needs time for skill to overcome variability imo). 2nd out of a 100 entries would also show skill in such a game but if we knew the prize structure and entered the contest we couldn't complain about 2nd OA getting zero since we knew it before we entered. 2nd OA getting zero dollars in a 100 person contest seems wierd and would leave a mark if it were me/you who finished 2nd OA.. but losing 20K from difference between 1st and 2nd place OA isn't completely out of line with some payouts I've seen (in fact I lost 17.5K on difference between 1st and 2nd before so 20K wouldn't be much tougher to take)..it's just the Zero that makes it stands out.

[ February 26, 2008, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Lightning Fast Whip ]

LFW · Post by **LFW** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:12 am

"Does luck overweight skill in a Week 16 winner-take-all format for about $200,000?"

The amount makes for different decisions made by individual players and their financial circumstances....But the skill inherent to the contest involved doesn't change whether it's for 2K,20K or 200K just the stakes might pass players comfort levels of risk.

Even a fantasy contest involving high level of skill has some variability so those that recognize that don't play more money than they can afford to lose.

boutrous11 · Post by **boutrous11** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:43 am

i don't think this fiasco will take any money out of ffball for next year. we'll all find a way to pay for our leagues. we have our priorities straight, (ffball 1st above everything else.)
it would be a "black eye" though for sure. people will be more leary to pony up a grand or 2 for any league.

[ February 26, 2008, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: boutrous11 ]

LFW · Post by **LFW** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:02 pm

Snake- Depends on the contest but most fantasy football contests would not be won very often by an unskilled player. A less skilled player might win occasionally over a more skilled player but odds decrease as the gap between them grows. Problem you might be facing is that your opponents in a game like this are of close to your skill level so you can't spot a big advantage and therefore say luck is a bigger part of it than it is. If you were facing 13 of these guys moms you'd probably win a lot more often and think it's closer to 90% skill

[ February 26, 2008, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Lightning Fast Whip ]

LFW · Post by **LFW** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:06 pm

Course if you were in a league with the 13 best players you'd probably want to lower that % skill.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:09 pm

That opens up the debate that a minimum skill level among high stakes players has to be assumed.

The difference between 12-15 high stakes players is much less than that of 12-15 random people off the street.

When people of similar skill sets play poker...(example...High Stakes Poker)...the winners often have to rely more on luck than usual.

That's why they are always looking for a juicy game with lesser skilled players...they make much more money without needing the luck as much.

~Lance