Picking at the #4 hole in the 14 man as I saw the draft unfold I do not think the 3RR is effective anymore. When the 3RR was installed a few years ago and the top RBs were literally equal to 2 players I felt it made sense. However now with all the RBBC I don't feel the 3RR works anymore.
Alot of owners picking at 1-4 had no shot at a top 10-12 WR and many were taking players very early out of fear. I was fortuante enuff to have Colston fall back me at 25 in the classic but in many leagues the guys toward the end 9-14 were getting a top tier RB and 2 top tier WR's.
I guess we will see how it all unfolds but I wanted to hear some other owners thoughts and opinions.
Thoughts on the 3RR
Thoughts on the 3RR
Dr.
I think the people who weren't picking 1-4 (especially near the back) would argue that they had no shot at a top RB.
In Chicago, I know a bunch of people WITH a top 4 pick went WR instead of RB.
One league, Andre Johnson went #1 (pretty sure it happened in NYC too!)
Bottom line is if you were picking there, you had to make a choice whether you wanted a RB or WR. That is why the 14 teamer is so challenging, because EVERYONE has a weakness somewhere.
Good luck this year!
EDIT: I just looked at your team, and you were EXTREMELY fortunate to get Colston, Kevin Smith, AND Witten where you did, as all 3 of those players weren't even available for team 4 in rounds 2,3, and 4 of my league (Chicago 3).
[ September 06, 2009, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
I think the people who weren't picking 1-4 (especially near the back) would argue that they had no shot at a top RB.
In Chicago, I know a bunch of people WITH a top 4 pick went WR instead of RB.
One league, Andre Johnson went #1 (pretty sure it happened in NYC too!)
Bottom line is if you were picking there, you had to make a choice whether you wanted a RB or WR. That is why the 14 teamer is so challenging, because EVERYONE has a weakness somewhere.
Good luck this year!
EDIT: I just looked at your team, and you were EXTREMELY fortunate to get Colston, Kevin Smith, AND Witten where you did, as all 3 of those players weren't even available for team 4 in rounds 2,3, and 4 of my league (Chicago 3).
[ September 06, 2009, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
-
D-Day Heroes
- Posts: 875
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:00 pm
Thoughts on the 3RR
Fish , I think u make a valid point.
As a matter of fact i was just thinking , wow what a difference PPR makes. In a very good way imho.
Before ppr , it was a no brainer , you load up on running backs or you pack your bags early in the season.
Now with PPR , wide receivers are just as valuable as running backs , maybe a litlle more so this year , but not as much as many people thnk.
Point being , by creating greater parity between positions , you create a FAR MORE competitive format.
It is so cool to see these draft boards that differ like snowflakes. Instead of like in the past where they all looked like they came from the same cookie cutter.
AND I believe that is all due to PPR
The 3rd round reversal , I don't know , it don't move me much eitheir way. I could take it or leave it. ( Maybe someone should do a study and show if it really dose give a favorable edge to those at the 8 - 12 0r 14 post ) , I don't have the facts to figure that one out.
BUT PPR , Thats a no brainer as far as i'm concerned , That took what was a very good game up to the level of a Very GREAT GAME.
As a matter of fact i was just thinking , wow what a difference PPR makes. In a very good way imho.
Before ppr , it was a no brainer , you load up on running backs or you pack your bags early in the season.
Now with PPR , wide receivers are just as valuable as running backs , maybe a litlle more so this year , but not as much as many people thnk.
Point being , by creating greater parity between positions , you create a FAR MORE competitive format.
It is so cool to see these draft boards that differ like snowflakes. Instead of like in the past where they all looked like they came from the same cookie cutter.
AND I believe that is all due to PPR
The 3rd round reversal , I don't know , it don't move me much eitheir way. I could take it or leave it. ( Maybe someone should do a study and show if it really dose give a favorable edge to those at the 8 - 12 0r 14 post ) , I don't have the facts to figure that one out.
BUT PPR , Thats a no brainer as far as i'm concerned , That took what was a very good game up to the level of a Very GREAT GAME.
" When you are in any contest you should work as if there were - to the very last minute - a chance to lose it. "
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Thoughts on the 3RR
Originally posted by Dr. FI$HER:
Picking at the #4 hole in the 14 man as I saw the draft unfold I do not think the 3RR is effective anymore. When the 3RR was installed a few years ago and the top RBs were literally equal to 2 players I felt it made sense. However now with all the RBBC I don't feel the 3RR works anymore.
Alot of owners picking at 1-4 had no shot at a top 10-12 WR and many were taking players very early out of fear. I was fortuante enuff to have Colston fall back me at 25 in the classic but in many leagues the guys toward the end 9-14 were getting a top tier RB and 2 top tier WR's.
I guess we will see how it all unfolds but I wanted to hear some other owners thoughts and opinions. In a home league a couple years ago ... we picked new random draft spots every 2 rounds.
If your argument is 1st+28th pick is the same as 14th+15th (29+56 = 42+43) ... it shouldn't matter to you if 3RR is used or not ... or if you picked a new order every 2 rounds for that matter.
From what I understand ... the math works out that the 1-28 advantage over the 14-15 is still slightly better than the advantage the 29 pick has over the 42nd pick for the rest of the draft.
You wouldn't bring it up if you didn't see the disadvantage. Of course you did ... just like the 14th slot had NO chance at a top 3 player at either position. Both spots had their advantages. Why it's fair. I assume you argument is that you wanted to go FIRST in ever odd round. HOW FAIR IS THAT. Without 3RR ... most people rank their draft choices 1-14 again ... which proves the point.
Mike
Picking at the #4 hole in the 14 man as I saw the draft unfold I do not think the 3RR is effective anymore. When the 3RR was installed a few years ago and the top RBs were literally equal to 2 players I felt it made sense. However now with all the RBBC I don't feel the 3RR works anymore.
Alot of owners picking at 1-4 had no shot at a top 10-12 WR and many were taking players very early out of fear. I was fortuante enuff to have Colston fall back me at 25 in the classic but in many leagues the guys toward the end 9-14 were getting a top tier RB and 2 top tier WR's.
I guess we will see how it all unfolds but I wanted to hear some other owners thoughts and opinions. In a home league a couple years ago ... we picked new random draft spots every 2 rounds.
If your argument is 1st+28th pick is the same as 14th+15th (29+56 = 42+43) ... it shouldn't matter to you if 3RR is used or not ... or if you picked a new order every 2 rounds for that matter.
From what I understand ... the math works out that the 1-28 advantage over the 14-15 is still slightly better than the advantage the 29 pick has over the 42nd pick for the rest of the draft.
You wouldn't bring it up if you didn't see the disadvantage. Of course you did ... just like the 14th slot had NO chance at a top 3 player at either position. Both spots had their advantages. Why it's fair. I assume you argument is that you wanted to go FIRST in ever odd round. HOW FAIR IS THAT. Without 3RR ... most people rank their draft choices 1-14 again ... which proves the point.
Mike
Hakuna Matata!
-
King of Queens
- Posts: 5262
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:00 pm
Thoughts on the 3RR
From 2004 through 2006, the NFFC used random draft slotting with no 3RR. Many people complained about their draft slot -- very tough to win from the 13/14 slots in a 14-team draft.
In 2007, the NFFC used KDS without 3RR for one year. Almost everyone picked the top slots, and again, there were lots of complaints.
Since 2008, the NFFC has used KDS with 3RR. By and large, a much greater percentage of participants were happy with their designated draft slots.
3RR isn't just a means of dealing with a Tomlinson or a Big 3 or whatever inequity there is -- perceived or otherwise -- between the top slots, the middle slots, and the back slots.
For many reasons, the NFFC would rather see more of these than these
In 2007, the NFFC used KDS without 3RR for one year. Almost everyone picked the top slots, and again, there were lots of complaints.
Since 2008, the NFFC has used KDS with 3RR. By and large, a much greater percentage of participants were happy with their designated draft slots.
3RR isn't just a means of dealing with a Tomlinson or a Big 3 or whatever inequity there is -- perceived or otherwise -- between the top slots, the middle slots, and the back slots.
For many reasons, the NFFC would rather see more of these than these
-
D-Day Heroes
- Posts: 875
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:00 pm
Thoughts on the 3RR
I like to use this analogy , ... some horses run better from the inside post , some run better from the outside post.
Bottom line , POST POSITION , will not help an inferior horse win , and POST POSITION will not keep a superior horse from winning.
Be a Superior Horse
Bottom line , POST POSITION , will not help an inferior horse win , and POST POSITION will not keep a superior horse from winning.
Be a Superior Horse
" When you are in any contest you should work as if there were - to the very last minute - a chance to lose it. "
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Thoughts on the 3RR
Footballguys did a study on differing draft orders and it showed that 3RR was the most fair of all IIRC.
The value is in pick 29 of a 14-teamer. It evens out the teams overall versus those picking at the top of Rd.1.
Without 3RR, I would go 1-14 on my KDS every time.
[ September 06, 2009, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Just Russ ]
The value is in pick 29 of a 14-teamer. It evens out the teams overall versus those picking at the top of Rd.1.
Without 3RR, I would go 1-14 on my KDS every time.
[ September 06, 2009, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Just Russ ]
2008- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
Thoughts on the 3RR
Originally posted by Dr. FI$HER:
Picking at the #4 hole in the 14 man as I saw the draft unfold I do not think the 3RR is effective anymore. When the 3RR was installed a few years ago and the top RBs were literally equal to 2 players I felt it made sense. However now with all the RBBC I don't feel the 3RR works anymore.
Alot of owners picking at 1-4 had no shot at a top 10-12 WR and many were taking players very early out of fear. I was fortuante enuff to have Colston fall back me at 25 in the classic but in many leagues the guys toward the end 9-14 were getting a top tier RB and 2 top tier WR's.
I guess we will see how it all unfolds but I wanted to hear some other owners thoughts and opinions. How did you setup your KDS?
John
Picking at the #4 hole in the 14 man as I saw the draft unfold I do not think the 3RR is effective anymore. When the 3RR was installed a few years ago and the top RBs were literally equal to 2 players I felt it made sense. However now with all the RBBC I don't feel the 3RR works anymore.
Alot of owners picking at 1-4 had no shot at a top 10-12 WR and many were taking players very early out of fear. I was fortuante enuff to have Colston fall back me at 25 in the classic but in many leagues the guys toward the end 9-14 were getting a top tier RB and 2 top tier WR's.
I guess we will see how it all unfolds but I wanted to hear some other owners thoughts and opinions. How did you setup your KDS?
John
Thoughts on the 3RR
I think the merits of the 3RR needs to be discussed in tandem with the KDS as the King of Queens points out .
The NFFC seems willing to make adjustments , and the range in KDS selections seems to be a great indicator on whether an adjustment would need to be made . Looking back over the thread of KDS selections it would seem to be wide open as to where preference was which is a very good thing as the more KDS difference there is the more owners that will get to draft closer to where they want .
I may be mistaken but I believe the highly accomlished Fi$her team was excited about landing their first KDS preference of #4 overall a week ago .
The NFFC seems willing to make adjustments , and the range in KDS selections seems to be a great indicator on whether an adjustment would need to be made . Looking back over the thread of KDS selections it would seem to be wide open as to where preference was which is a very good thing as the more KDS difference there is the more owners that will get to draft closer to where they want .
I may be mistaken but I believe the highly accomlished Fi$her team was excited about landing their first KDS preference of #4 overall a week ago .
Thoughts on the 3RR
3rr combined with KDS provides PERCEIVED control over your high stakes fantasy football experience. We all know in reality we have limited control and all kinds of things will impact the results (Once the season starts) that far outweigh draft position.
When 3rr was initially brought up here I argued against it partly because I can be a creature of habit and partly because I saw fantasy football as a steadily growing entity and why fix what aint broke? However, as I looked deeper and THEN saw how combining KDS to the experience would impact the event, I was all for it and believe it has vastly improved the experience ever since. The majority of people get a draft positon that they PERCEIVE as prefered.
It gives more people a good taste in their mouths and less with the sense they are starting out with a disadvantage. This is huge in getting people to pony up big money for an event like this. As KOQ said. it is about perceived control over your draft more than it is about balancing out the production of an epic stud at the top of a draft.
[ September 06, 2009, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Renman ]
When 3rr was initially brought up here I argued against it partly because I can be a creature of habit and partly because I saw fantasy football as a steadily growing entity and why fix what aint broke? However, as I looked deeper and THEN saw how combining KDS to the experience would impact the event, I was all for it and believe it has vastly improved the experience ever since. The majority of people get a draft positon that they PERCEIVE as prefered.
It gives more people a good taste in their mouths and less with the sense they are starting out with a disadvantage. This is huge in getting people to pony up big money for an event like this. As KOQ said. it is about perceived control over your draft more than it is about balancing out the production of an epic stud at the top of a draft.
[ September 06, 2009, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Renman ]