What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:07 am

Originally posted by Just Russ:
I agree and disagree with Marc here.

I do believe the mainstream has a payment threshold of $1000. Something in the $600-1000 range is missing (to my knowledge) in the industry on a large scale.

I think this is the sweet spot and offers the most staying power.

People would be nuts to stay with WCFF based on current and past events.

I don't think the FFPC or NFFC are making any kind of all-or-nothing moves. It is OBVIOUS that there is an opportunity there.

I think the Fanball fiasco was more than a hiccup. I enjoy the NFFC and plan to go to Chicago this year for an event or two, so I'm not bashing in any way, just being honest.

I agree with Glenn that everyone can't survive based on multiple EFs. That just points to a thin base.

Good luck to the 2 Events who I'll be spending money with this year! Speaking from experience, I think we've seen through the years a clear sign that the entry-level for most folks is $125 and if folks can afford $500 or more they are willing to go much higher for a bigger prize. When I set the $350 price point for the NFFC and NFBC Online Championships, I felt it was the jump that $125 owners would take to win that bigger grand prize. It was like asking folks who normally would pay $500 to jump to the $1,250 mark to play for $100,000. It's possible that a game could excel at $750-$1,000 per team, but then your grand prize would be only $50,000 (which we've had for the Primetime) or you'd need 600+ teams at that price to get to $100,000. I see that price point as a "tweener" not as the next boom and that is why we're not staying there this year with the NFFC Primetime.

Let me address the Fanball "fiasco." We were villified at this time last year for two things: 1) the NFBC had a terrible start to the season and everyone questioned whether the software would be good enough for football. We deserved to be criticized before football even started because we made life hellish for our baseball guys. I totally understand that. And 2) some folks loved the idea of associating Fanball with FFOC, which didn't pay the free entries that were won by those owners. Again, I have no reason to be an apologist for Fanball today, but at no time did Fanball own any piece of FFOC nor were they involved in deciding if those free entries should have been paid out or not. But that thought ran and ran all off-season and we were guilty by association because Fanball ran the back-end software of the FFOC game. And Russ is right, the football software wasn't fully compatible to what STATS had in the past, especially with the Draft Champions format, so folks had a reason to call last football season a "hiccup" under Fanball if they'd like.

But just like we were pegged by our baseball failure at the start, we should be praised now for what is to come for football. STATS has done a MARVELOUS job with our baseball game and all signs point to a great football season from a technology standpoint. Hopefully people can see what has happened in the NFBC -- a record-breaking season even though we purchased the assets five weeks before Opening Day -- and will give us a second chance in the NFFC. We are not taking a step back from here on out.

I've VERY EXCITED about what lies ahead for the NFFC, STATS and our players. I know we can return to the level of satisfaction we've had in the past and live events that folks are proud to attend. We've got a lot of work ahead of us, but I'm convinced that all will fall into place for the NFFC, just like it did this year with the NFBC.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:17 am

This may be a crazy analogy, but I'll try it anyway. This last week I spent 7 days at DisneyWorld with my family and honestly had the time of my life. It really was a once-in-a-lifetime experience for me and my family. However, it was sooooooo good that I hope to do this more frequently with my family.

For starters, you have to realize that I'm so conservative with my money that my kids call me Mr. Krebs. So for me to spend as much money as we did on this last vacation is very uncharacteristic. Yet we spent more than I ever imagined once we got there because it was just so much damn fun being at all of those Disney parks. The employees were so kind and everything was so clean and the parks were so much fun that somehow Mr. Krebs didn't even complain when our meal bill came back higher than expected. I just enjoyed the entire experience and I'll worry about that credit card bill later!!

In many ways, that's the way people felt when they played with WCOFF in those early years or even our events. I remember going to that first WCOFF draft and thinking how expensive the whole deal was. But once you got to the ESPN Zone with 600+ like-minded fantasy football crazies, and once you started drafting in a room of 548 other like-minded owners, the whole experience was worth it. That's what I wanted to recreate for baseball, which got me into this space in 2004.

For me, nothing replaces that live draft experience when it's done right and with a great group of customers. I think we did it right last football season at the Bellagio and I know we did it right at all of our locations this baseball season. We need to make this live experience so good from a vacation standpoint that the price of entry seems "reasonable" for all that comes with it. Just like my Disney 7-day park pass seems to me right now. For Mr. Krebs, it was worth every penny (well, I can say that now because I haven't seen the credit card bill yet, but hopefully I'll feel that same way in a few weeks!!

).

Hopefully that makes sense. It's on the game operators to make this an EXPERIENCE worth the price. And if not, then somebody else will do it because the live events aren't going to go away, that's for sure.

Coltsfan · Post by **Coltsfan** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:57 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
This may be a crazy analogy, but I'll try it anyway. This last week I spent 7 days at DisneyWorld with my family and honestly had the time of my life. It really was a once-in-a-lifetime experience for me and my family. However, it was sooooooo good that I hope to do this more frequently with my family.

For starters, you have to realize that I'm so conservative with my money that my kids call me Mr. Krebs. So for me to spend as much money as we did on this last vacation is very uncharacteristic. Yet we spent more than I ever imagined once we got there because it was just so much damn fun being at all of those Disney parks. The employees were so kind and everything was so clean and the parks were so much fun that somehow Mr. Krebs didn't even complain when our meal bill came back higher than expected. I just enjoyed the entire experience and I'll worry about that credit card bill later!!

In many ways, that's the way people felt when they played with WCOFF in those early years or even our events. I remember going to that first WCOFF draft and thinking how expensive the whole deal was. But once you got to the ESPN Zone with 600+ like-minded fantasy football crazies, and once you started drafting in a room of 548 other like-minded owners, the whole experience was worth it. That's what I wanted to recreate for baseball, which got me into this space in 2004.

For me, nothing replaces that live draft experience when it's done right and with a great group of customers. I think we did it right last football season at the Bellagio and I know we did it right at all of our locations this baseball season. We need to make this live experience so good from a vacation standpoint that the price of entry seems "reasonable" for all that comes with it. Just like my Disney 7-day park pass seems to me right now. For Mr. Krebs, it was worth every penny (well, I can say that now because I haven't seen the credit card bill yet, but hopefully I'll feel that same way in a few weeks!!

).

Hopefully that makes sense. It's on the game operators to make this an EXPERIENCE worth the price. And if not, then somebody else will do it because the live events aren't going to go away, that's for sure. Well said Greg!

Wayne

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:49 am

For the record, I have full confidence in the NFFC experience going forward. I think the 3 city approach is a step in the right direction and all cities have had positive experiences.

I don't think 600 teams is out of the question for a $750 price point as long as you have the marketing exposure. Millions of FF players in the US. Millions!

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:34 am

For those who may not have seen, Dustin announced today that WCOFF will have a "transfer of ownership" within the next 30-45 days. He said day-to-day duties will remain for WCOFF and the WCOFB but no outstanding payments for those who still have not been paid will be made until the transfer is complete.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:06 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
For those who may not have seen, Dustin announced today that WCOFF will have a "transfer of ownership" within the next 30-45 days. He said day-to-day duties will remain for WCOFF and the WCOFB but no outstanding payments for those who still have not been paid will be made until the transfer is complete. So these people have to wait until June or mid June (if it truly is 30-45 days) to receive their money????

Unreal.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:00 am

It's certainly disappointing to hear that the prize winners from 2010 will have to wait a minimum of 30-45 more days to receive their payments. Hopefully that is resolved by then. As Greg said, it doesn't do anyone in this industry any good to have contests running who are not paying their prize winners.

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:00 am

Wow, that is just sickening!

It sure is nice to not have to worry with the NFFC.

Sad that many may miss earlybird incentives or early drafts as they wait for their winnings from the previous season.

How does this new announcement jive with the "technical glitch" muck from the last several months? How can anyone trust them at this point?

weber7777 · Post by **weber7777** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:56 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
This may be a crazy analogy, but I'll try it anyway. This last week I spent 7 days at DisneyWorld with my family and honestly had the time of my life. It really was a once-in-a-lifetime experience for me and my family. However, it was sooooooo good that I hope to do this more frequently with my family.

For starters, you have to realize that I'm so conservative with my money that my kids call me Mr. Krebs. So for me to spend as much money as we did on this last vacation is very uncharacteristic. Yet we spent more than I ever imagined once we got there because it was just so much damn fun being at all of those Disney parks. The employees were so kind and everything was so clean and the parks were so much fun that somehow Mr. Krebs didn't even complain when our meal bill came back higher than expected. I just enjoyed the entire experience and I'll worry about that credit card bill later!!

In many ways, that's the way people felt when they played with WCOFF in those early years or even our events. I remember going to that first WCOFF draft and thinking how expensive the whole deal was. But once you got to the ESPN Zone with 600+ like-minded fantasy football crazies, and once you started drafting in a room of 548 other like-minded owners, the whole experience was worth it. That's what I wanted to recreate for baseball, which got me into this space in 2004.

For me, nothing replaces that live draft experience when it's done right and with a great group of customers. I think we did it right last football season at the Bellagio and I know we did it right at all of our locations this baseball season. We need to make this live experience so good from a vacation standpoint that the price of entry seems "reasonable" for all that comes with it. Just like my Disney 7-day park pass seems to me right now. For Mr. Krebs, it was worth every penny (well, I can say that now because I haven't seen the credit card bill yet, but hopefully I'll feel that same way in a few weeks!!

).

Hopefully that makes sense. It's on the game operators to make this an EXPERIENCE worth the price. And if not, then somebody else will do it because the live events aren't going to go away, that's for sure. one thing greg that i think is missing which is very basic in the 12 team formats is a traditional playoff system.. people don't want to shell out 500 or 1000 or even 350 in these leagues without a realistic shot at playoffs.. having 4 teams make playoffs in these leagues to me keeps interest alive and is the standard with most events..

that is the only thing i liked about the wcoff.. i don't like the playoff systems of hte NFFC however of course im done with the wcoff after they paid me so late.. they lost my business.

keep the events you've had, but on the 12 team formats greg, you have to conform to what people are used to playing.. that will bring in your online players and bring over the wcoff players because right now those that are not playing in the wcoff are leaning toward the FFPC events, it's more in line with the standard customary

BONGIZMO · Post by **BONGIZMO** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:48 pm

My latest missive as I truly don't want any of my friends in the NFFC to get sucked into this nightmare at WCOFF. trust me folks, going through this to get your winnings sucks the fun out of the entire fact you garnered anything at all.

My post on WCOFF:
Once again Dustin you prove that you truly don't give a damn about us your paying customers. I don't need your link since I received the email but for you to delete a thread yet again because people might be saying things that paint you and your team poorly is weak.

It's really simple, stop feeding us outright lies on one hand while ignoring us on the other and get this fixed and us paid. I swear to you everything I promised I will follow through on with regards to trumpeting from the highest mountaintop to any that will listen that the WCOFF hasn't paid it's 2010 winners.

For you to send us that email with the audacity of selling your 2011 events is ludicrous unless it is what you have made this appear which is we are at the point where the only checks going out are based on the funds coming in.

Ban me, delete me it truly doesn't matter but I promise to be an absolute thorn in your side until myself and every winner from 2010 is paid and this nightmare is over.