Manning and Brady are hands down the best two QB's of the era. And probably the best 2 QB's ever but that is because the game is being played at a different level today than what it was even 15 years ago. It's all about passing now and less about a great rushing game.
While I will never be convinced that Brady is superior to Manning, I absolutely HATE the argument that Brady wins more post season so he is better. The Colts have won more games during the Brady/Manning era with a less effective coaching staff and FAR worst defense than the Pats. I think everyone would agree with that. It's kind of like winning the regular season in the NFFC. The best team typically wins the league. But in the playoffs anyone can do it. You just have to be hot at the right time. This may not completely translate over to the pros but nobody had won more games over the past 10 years than the Colts. And my guess is that they may not have made one single post season without Manning during this time. He is the Colts.
And I do agree that the Colts have done a terrible job developing talent behind Manning. They are reaping what they have sown this year.
Wayne
Week 2 Thoughts & Observations
Week 2 Thoughts & Observations
Tom terrific,
You may be right that the Pats didnt' make the playoffs in 08. I can't remember and was repeating what some radio goon said yesterday. The point is that Cassel isn't a dynamic player. They didn't make the playoffs last year "because of" Cassel. The Pats were not "prepared for" Brady go down in week one either. I think most would argue that the Chiefs made a glaring mistake in signing him to a long term deal. He isn't a special player in any way and produced very well in that Patriot system with VERY LITTLE experience at the QB position going all the way back to high school. He didn't play much in college if I remember correctly.
I just think the Patriots are a better coached, better organized, better disciplined team and organization than the Colts are. I think the Colts were carried by Manning more than the Patriots are carried by Brady. Both QB's make the receivers around them better. Both are dynamic QB's.
You may be right that the Pats didnt' make the playoffs in 08. I can't remember and was repeating what some radio goon said yesterday. The point is that Cassel isn't a dynamic player. They didn't make the playoffs last year "because of" Cassel. The Pats were not "prepared for" Brady go down in week one either. I think most would argue that the Chiefs made a glaring mistake in signing him to a long term deal. He isn't a special player in any way and produced very well in that Patriot system with VERY LITTLE experience at the QB position going all the way back to high school. He didn't play much in college if I remember correctly.
I just think the Patriots are a better coached, better organized, better disciplined team and organization than the Colts are. I think the Colts were carried by Manning more than the Patriots are carried by Brady. Both QB's make the receivers around them better. Both are dynamic QB's.
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matthickok
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:00 pm
Week 2 Thoughts & Observations
Originally posted by Coltsfan:
Manning and Brady are hands down the best two QB's of the era. And probably the best 2 QB's ever but that is because the game is being played at a different level today than what it was even 15 years ago. It's all about passing now and less about a great rushing game.
While I will never be convinced that Brady is superior to Manning, I absolutely HATE the argument that Brady wins more post season so he is better. The Colts have won more games during the Brady/Manning era with a less effective coaching staff and FAR worst defense than the Pats. I think everyone would agree with that. It's kind of like winning the regular season in the NFFC. The best team typically wins the league. But in the playoffs anyone can do it. You just have to be hot at the right time. This may not completely translate over to the pros but nobody had won more games over the past 10 years than the Colts. And my guess is that they may not have made one single post season without Manning during this time. He is the Colts.
And I do agree that the Colts have done a terrible job developing talent behind Manning. They are reaping what they have sown this year.
Wayne Sorry to do this, but your entire case is based on incorrect data. The Colts have NOT won more games during the Brady/Manning era. Brady's first full year was 2001, so over the past 10 full seasons:
Colts 115-45
Patriots 121-39
Including Playoffs:
Colts 124-53
Patriots 135-44
You shouldn't hate the sentiment that Brady wins more in the post season so he is better. Brady wins more in the regular season too. He's better all the way around!
Manning and Brady are hands down the best two QB's of the era. And probably the best 2 QB's ever but that is because the game is being played at a different level today than what it was even 15 years ago. It's all about passing now and less about a great rushing game.
While I will never be convinced that Brady is superior to Manning, I absolutely HATE the argument that Brady wins more post season so he is better. The Colts have won more games during the Brady/Manning era with a less effective coaching staff and FAR worst defense than the Pats. I think everyone would agree with that. It's kind of like winning the regular season in the NFFC. The best team typically wins the league. But in the playoffs anyone can do it. You just have to be hot at the right time. This may not completely translate over to the pros but nobody had won more games over the past 10 years than the Colts. And my guess is that they may not have made one single post season without Manning during this time. He is the Colts.
And I do agree that the Colts have done a terrible job developing talent behind Manning. They are reaping what they have sown this year.
Wayne Sorry to do this, but your entire case is based on incorrect data. The Colts have NOT won more games during the Brady/Manning era. Brady's first full year was 2001, so over the past 10 full seasons:
Colts 115-45
Patriots 121-39
Including Playoffs:
Colts 124-53
Patriots 135-44
You shouldn't hate the sentiment that Brady wins more in the post season so he is better. Brady wins more in the regular season too. He's better all the way around!
Week 2 Thoughts & Observations
I think the bigger point is that "BRADY" isn't who is winning.. the Patriots are winning and the supporting cast around Brady, in my opinion has always been superior. Primarily from a coaching, game planning, preparation, player personnel standpoint.
The Patriots have won more primarily because of an amazing coach and system with great support from a superior QB. The Colts have won almost exclusively because of the QB.
The Patriots have won more primarily because of an amazing coach and system with great support from a superior QB. The Colts have won almost exclusively because of the QB.
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matthickok
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:00 pm
Week 2 Thoughts & Observations
Originally posted by Renman:
Tom terrific,
You may be right that the Pats didnt' make the playoffs in 08. I can't remember and was repeating what some radio goon said yesterday. The point is that Cassel isn't a dynamic player. They didn't make the playoffs last year "because of" Cassel. The Pats were not "prepared for" Brady go down in week one either. I think most would argue that the Chiefs made a glaring mistake in signing him to a long term deal. He isn't a special player in any way and produced very well in that Patriot system with VERY LITTLE experience at the QB position going all the way back to high school. He didn't play much in college if I remember correctly.
I just think the Patriots are a better coached, better organized, better disciplined team and organization than the Colts are. I think the Colts were carried by Manning more than the Patriots are carried by Brady. Both QB's make the receivers around them better. Both are dynamic QB's. You can't compare the Colts current situation with the Patriots 08 situation as they are VERY different. The Patriots were exponentially more prepared than the Colts.
Matt Cassel had 3 full seasons studying the offense under the tutelage of Tom Terrific and co before being thrust into the fire. He knew the playbook, the coaches, the players, etc. He was as prepared as any backup could have been under the circumstances.
Kerry Collins signed with the Colts on 8/24, 2 weeks before the season started! He had never thrown a pass for the Colts, has no experience of their playbook, and is absolutely 100% learning on the fly. It's amazing he's doing as well as he is! As I've stated many times, the Colts were caught with their pants down on this one. The Colts struggles without Manning being indicative of who is better between he and Brady has no substance whatsoever. Two ENTIRELY different situations.
3 years of calculated preparation vs. 2 weeks of panic management clearly shows Manning is more important or better than Brady? I don't think so.
We simply disagree on Cassel. He's played very well and has led multiple teams to winning records and one team to the playoffs and it was just last year. The Chiefs seem to like him because they guaranteed him 28 million dollars.
Tom terrific,
You may be right that the Pats didnt' make the playoffs in 08. I can't remember and was repeating what some radio goon said yesterday. The point is that Cassel isn't a dynamic player. They didn't make the playoffs last year "because of" Cassel. The Pats were not "prepared for" Brady go down in week one either. I think most would argue that the Chiefs made a glaring mistake in signing him to a long term deal. He isn't a special player in any way and produced very well in that Patriot system with VERY LITTLE experience at the QB position going all the way back to high school. He didn't play much in college if I remember correctly.
I just think the Patriots are a better coached, better organized, better disciplined team and organization than the Colts are. I think the Colts were carried by Manning more than the Patriots are carried by Brady. Both QB's make the receivers around them better. Both are dynamic QB's. You can't compare the Colts current situation with the Patriots 08 situation as they are VERY different. The Patriots were exponentially more prepared than the Colts.
Matt Cassel had 3 full seasons studying the offense under the tutelage of Tom Terrific and co before being thrust into the fire. He knew the playbook, the coaches, the players, etc. He was as prepared as any backup could have been under the circumstances.
Kerry Collins signed with the Colts on 8/24, 2 weeks before the season started! He had never thrown a pass for the Colts, has no experience of their playbook, and is absolutely 100% learning on the fly. It's amazing he's doing as well as he is! As I've stated many times, the Colts were caught with their pants down on this one. The Colts struggles without Manning being indicative of who is better between he and Brady has no substance whatsoever. Two ENTIRELY different situations.
3 years of calculated preparation vs. 2 weeks of panic management clearly shows Manning is more important or better than Brady? I don't think so.
We simply disagree on Cassel. He's played very well and has led multiple teams to winning records and one team to the playoffs and it was just last year. The Chiefs seem to like him because they guaranteed him 28 million dollars.
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matthickok
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:00 pm
Week 2 Thoughts & Observations
Originally posted by Renman:
I think the bigger point is that "BRADY" isn't who is winning.. the Patriots are winning and the supporting cast around Brady, in my opinion has always been superior. Primarily from a coaching, game planning, preparation, player personnel standpoint.
The Patriots have won more primarily because of an amazing coach and system with great support from a superior QB. The Colts have won almost exclusively because of the QB. I agree that the Patriots have had better coaches, however
Bill Belichick has been the only constant. Several New England coordinators have moved on to other organizations. New England has not had the same rock solid staff over the past 10 years. Only Brady and Belichick which speaks volumes to how good each is.
Also, Indianapolis hasn't had terrible coaching. You don't win that many games with poor coaching. Tony Dungy specifically was a very good coach.
Disagree on the player personnel. Indianapolis has had more firepower as a whole over the past 10 years than New England, ESPECIALLY pre-2007 (when Brady won all of his SB rings).
I think the bigger point is that "BRADY" isn't who is winning.. the Patriots are winning and the supporting cast around Brady, in my opinion has always been superior. Primarily from a coaching, game planning, preparation, player personnel standpoint.
The Patriots have won more primarily because of an amazing coach and system with great support from a superior QB. The Colts have won almost exclusively because of the QB. I agree that the Patriots have had better coaches, however
Bill Belichick has been the only constant. Several New England coordinators have moved on to other organizations. New England has not had the same rock solid staff over the past 10 years. Only Brady and Belichick which speaks volumes to how good each is.
Also, Indianapolis hasn't had terrible coaching. You don't win that many games with poor coaching. Tony Dungy specifically was a very good coach.
Disagree on the player personnel. Indianapolis has had more firepower as a whole over the past 10 years than New England, ESPECIALLY pre-2007 (when Brady won all of his SB rings).
Week 2 Thoughts & Observations
You are correct on the wins Tom. I was just looking at the last decade in which the Colts had the most wins. I forgot about Brady not coming on board until 2001.
By the way, what team are you managing in the NFFC? Did you draft in New York? I was just curious. And I will agree to disagree with you.
Wayne
By the way, what team are you managing in the NFFC? Did you draft in New York? I was just curious. And I will agree to disagree with you.
Wayne
Week 2 Thoughts & Observations
Originally posted by Tom Terrific:
[QUOTE]
Also, Indianapolis hasn't had terrible coaching. You don't win that many games with poor coaching. Tony Dungy specifically was a very good coach.
Disagree on the player personnel. Indianapolis has had more firepower as a whole over the past 10 years than New England, ESPECIALLY pre-2007 (when Brady won all of his SB rings). Terrific,
I would say you NORMALLY do not win many games with poor coaching. That is, unless you have Peyton Manning. The great "firepower" the Colts have had over the years is a direct result of Peyton Manning being the QB. You are right that Collins was thrown into the mix and isn't ready. What does that say about what the team thinks of Painter as QB running that offense in practice?
They are both great... Brady stepped into a perfect system and situation and made it better just like many other immortal QB's (Montana, Bradshaw, etc) have. Manning stepped into a bad situation and is the core reason it got good and at times great just like many other immortal QB's (Elway, Marino, etc) have.
I just believe Brady has always had the better support system.. the more disciplined environment... the better culture.. and significantly better coaching. What assistants have come and gone isn't that important... If you are watching the piece now on NFL network (A coaches life) you can see how involved in the offense Bill Belichick is even though he is known as a defensive coach.
[QUOTE]
Also, Indianapolis hasn't had terrible coaching. You don't win that many games with poor coaching. Tony Dungy specifically was a very good coach.
Disagree on the player personnel. Indianapolis has had more firepower as a whole over the past 10 years than New England, ESPECIALLY pre-2007 (when Brady won all of his SB rings). Terrific,
I would say you NORMALLY do not win many games with poor coaching. That is, unless you have Peyton Manning. The great "firepower" the Colts have had over the years is a direct result of Peyton Manning being the QB. You are right that Collins was thrown into the mix and isn't ready. What does that say about what the team thinks of Painter as QB running that offense in practice?
They are both great... Brady stepped into a perfect system and situation and made it better just like many other immortal QB's (Montana, Bradshaw, etc) have. Manning stepped into a bad situation and is the core reason it got good and at times great just like many other immortal QB's (Elway, Marino, etc) have.
I just believe Brady has always had the better support system.. the more disciplined environment... the better culture.. and significantly better coaching. What assistants have come and gone isn't that important... If you are watching the piece now on NFL network (A coaches life) you can see how involved in the offense Bill Belichick is even though he is known as a defensive coach.