I'll Chat Today At 2 ET

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:10 pm

James, I've been a Welker fan from day 1, so we will have a stalemate here. There have been many crappy teams with wr's pulling in big time receptions. Look at Steve Smith for example. In fact, that is probably the best example I can give.

renman · Post by **renman** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:54 am

Diesel,

I don't think we really disagree much (if at all). Welker might be my favorite player in the NFL. I think he is amazing. The epitome of what the NFL should be... plus I loved how he mocked Rex Ryans foot thing.

I am just saying his "immortal stats" right now are more of a result of his playing circumstance than him being an immortal talent.

My point with the questino to Tom (and it was more rhetorical) is that I don't understand why other teams cannot get 70% of that producton out of their slot receivers. They could never get 100% of it because Brady and Welker together are THAT good (which is where I agree with Tom's point).

[ October 16, 2011, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Renman ]

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:56 am

Agreed.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:10 am

Most of Welker's patterns are option routes so what makes him so good is first his ability to choose the softest area to go to and second, Brady's uncanny ability to anticipate where he will go and of course deliver the ball. Since on any given play Welker does not know where he is going to go, that keeps the D on their heels and opens them up for the occasional shot downfield (which we are seeing more this season) like the 99 yd TD and the long one versus the Jets And with these, it was not like Brady threw the ball 70 yards in the air -- it was a perfect play design, opening up the field and hitting Welker in stride at a point he was still open. Most DBs have the makeup speed to catch up to Welker if they throw a conventional bomb, but Brady looks for him downfield while he is "still open".

So the skill Welker possesses that makes him so good is the ability to read the defense properly on the fly. The reason this works is he has a QB able to take advantage by having the same ability, plus a coaching staff able to occasionally parlay this into a big play, catching the opponent off guard downfield.

[ October 16, 2011, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Todd Zola ]

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:12 am

Dontcha hate it when you click the quote icon instead of the edit one?!?!?!?!

[ October 16, 2011, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Todd Zola ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:00 am

Edelman had the opportunity to show whether it was the player or the system in 2009. He nowhere approached Welker's production even with the same QB and the same system.

Granted....it's a perfect combination of player, great QB, and system that works to the strengths of all. However, I think it's simplifying the situation by asking why other teams don't do the same things with the slot that Brady & Welker do.

Teams have been trying to utilize the outside linebacker position the same way the Giants did in the early 80's since the early 80's. 30 years and noone's come close to emulating the Giants production from the position. Why? Because noone else had LT.

In the same vein, Welker just may be one of the great slot receivers in history and it may be as simple as that.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:07 am

One more point. Welker still had a pretty great year in 2008 without Brady and a barely NFL caliber QB tossing him the rock.

renman · Post by **renman** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:45 pm

Originally posted by Todd Zola:
Most of Welker's patterns are option routes so what makes him so good is first his ability to choose the softest area to go to and second, Brady's uncanny ability to anticipate where he will go and of course deliver the ball. Since on any given play Welker does not know where he is going to go, that keeps the D on their heels and opens them up for the occasional shot downfield (which we are seeing more this season) like the 99 yd TD and the long one versus the Jets And with these, it was not like Brady threw the ball 70 yards in the air -- it was a perfect play design, opening up the field and hitting Welker in stride at a point he was still open. Most DBs have the makeup speed to catch up to Welker if they throw a conventional bomb, but Brady looks for him downfield while he is "still open".

So the skill Welker possesses that makes him so good is the ability to read the defense properly on the fly. The reason this works is he has a QB able to take advantage by having the same ability, plus a coaching staff able to occasionally parlay this into a big play, catching the opponent off guard downfield. Todd,

If you read my first post, you will see I said this nearly word for word... specifically the point about how welker and Brady "read" the same thing a a large portion of their production comes on plays that were not designed.

I just can't understand why few (if any) other teams can do 70% of what they do from the slot. I know they are both great players... the NFL is full of great players. Just have to tip your hat to them.