Mixed signals(?) in sidebetting, what now?

Noose · Post by **Noose** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:33 am

To put it shortly: We got a weekly sidebet going with a guy I didn't know prior to the season, but as we've exchanged emails I've gotten the impression he's a good guy and a man of sense. But now the thing is that he's under the impression that the bet is done weekly so that you can opt out of it anytime you like. I've made the bet for the 16 week season and never known for such opt out clause. He thinks I should've made it clear to him that it's a week 16 commitment, but I think it's by default that you bet for the whole season with each week counting. I think he should've made it clear that you can actually opt out of it.

Early in the season I knew I was putting myself in a disadvantage by drafting Arian Foster. If I knew of such opt out clause, I never would have sidebet the first weeks when Foster wasn't in there. One or two week risk turned out to be a four week risk, for which time I feel like I was at a disadvantage. It also didn't help me that my #5 and #7 picks' Knowshon Moreno's and Lee Evans' quickly turned into a downward spiral and put me even more of a hole early on. Through those weeks I went 0-4. Since Foster came back and the playing field's leveled, I've went 2-1.

Come week 8, my opposition's been bitten by the injury bug to his running backs and wants to pull out. I'm not having any of it, since I'm under the idea that it's a full season commitment. It seems that we can't come to a solution where we'd both be happy with the solution, so you guys got any ideas?

Here's the messages we sent in our league board prior to the opening kickoff:

"Side bets, anyone? Posted By: FinnishFlash
Would anyone be interested in side bets? I'd be down for $300-$1000 head-to-head each week. With payments every four weeks. I'm from Finland, so we'd need to do an international bank transfer if anyone's interested. You can email me at xxxxx.
Thanks"

He replied:

"I attempted to email you but it is saying your email address is invalid. I would def be open to the side bet but its putting a lot of trust in each other to pay since we dont know each other. I guess we can start out small every week to establish a relationship. Would Greg at least be the middle man if we posted the money before the season? I would bet a 1000 per week if we could some how post it with greg before hand. I know there is a company called league safe that holds money in escrow but we would still need someone to have responsibility for sending the money to whoever wins. I am all about betting every week on fantasy though, I love it!"

Especially the last sentence... that would lead me to believe he's also betting every week like he said and therefore validate my default impression of the bet lasting 16 weeks. We never discussed the matter in our emails before he sent me "I quit" email.

He'll come in to give his cents to the story when he gets the chance.

Anyway guys, what's your take?

particra · Post by **particra** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:36 am

I think that even if you were right (and it's ambiguous at best) you can't enforce what is basically an illegal contract, so you're screwed.

Money · Post by **Money** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:21 am

You should try to negotiate some sort of agreement that is (somewhat) satisfactory to both of you. In the world of sports gambling (and that's what this is) there are many shady characters, people who will manipulate situations to their advantage. In the extreme some people simply don't pay up when losing.

If principal is more important than the financial implications I'd sit tight and hold him to the weekly wager. Hopefully you haven't sent this guy any of your money. He's trying to back out of an agreement, plain and simple. Obviously you're still placating him, what else can you do?

Cocktails and Dreams · Post by **Cocktails and Dreams** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:32 am

Very experienced in this type of thing and and unless otherwise stipulated the wager is every week until the determined end of the betting season, which is typically the end of the fantasy regular season in all my side betting leagues. Can't opt out. That is absurd unless stated prior.

Noose · Post by **Noose** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:54 am

Well the priciple is important but so are the financials, since it's $1k each week and we've been sending back and forth after every week. He's up.

In a latest development he went on the say that he never meant do it more than half season. I find that hard to buy.

What puts me in even more of a disadvantage that if my team would've sucked, maybe Foster's hammy lingered I'd still be on the hook for rest of the season since the bet's always been 16 weeks. In NFFC there are games for 16 weeks each team through the season, so in here it makes sense for it to be the full season rather than just the fantasy regular season due to the consolation rounds.

Obviously if he decides to just screw it and go back on his word, that's his right. I'm a card player myself so I know something about these things, but in a gambling world your word is all you have. In another league with fellow professionals I don't know prior to the league in which we've got sidebets going, and in there I've got Andre, Gates with Beanie and SJax giving me the occasional headache. I'm on the hook there for anything from 15k to 25k for the rest of the season, but I'm never trying to pull any "I quit" stuff since that's the risk you run sidebetting fantasy football. Injuries happen, mismanagement happens, players lose their roles and whatever can happen... but getting unlucky or mismanaging doesn't mean that I can withdraw from a bet in the middle of it. Not in a million years.

[ October 31, 2011, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Riku ]

Ted's Cracked Head · Post by **Ted's Cracked Head** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:07 am

I would think that you would be happy to just get your money back? Has he refused that or do you want more?

I think he should pay you one weeks worth of fees on top of making you whole for quitting, I mean opting out.

Added: I wouldn't be posting this on a public MB.

[ October 31, 2011, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Silver and Black ]

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:56 am

If the other guy is the one who is winning(and you owe HIM) money...I would say if he decides to quit AND squash the wager with you altogether...NO MONEY OWED...Then it's a gentlemen's parting.

If the other guy is LOSING, and asks to quit, it would be a gentlemen's request to quit because he's getting in too deep...But still completely up to you to stop the wagering from that point on. Because from what I'm reading here, it looked as if the wagers would go on all season. In this case, the guy still owes you money.

Finally, if the guy has been up and down, and is now up....But decides to quit while he is up, that in my opinion is just bad sportsmanship. In this case, not only would it be a breach of an agreed contract or wager, but no money would be owed to him if the bet did not continue because the other guy wanted to stop. If you stop, the whole deal stops. Just my opinion.

I would suggest if anyone does anything like this in the future, you would be specific in the wording before it's done. But even more-so, don't wager THIS much money. If this were a case of $150, I doubt it makes the messageboards, and would just be talked about on draft days about a guy that welched on a bet.

[ October 31, 2011, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Diesel ]

BLACKHAND · Post by **BLACKHAND** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:49 pm

just take care of the situation.

Shrink Attack · Post by **Shrink Attack** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:25 pm

Yo..tell me where to find this Finland place and fuhgetaboutit.

Guido

Noose · Post by **Noose** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:23 am

I'm thinking I should give him an opportunity to choose between two options:

a) I'm now 3-5, with last week's being only $500 to so it's basically 2.5-5. So I'm still 2.5k down by this point. I could give him the option to refund half of my $2.5k and no bet the rest of the season. If he genuinely doesn't want to root or manage his team the rest of the way, he can do that. But of course he can't just quit.

b) The bet runs through the season with the $1k bet each week like it's been. There is absolutely no going back should injuries/mismanagement happens for either team, like fantasy football sidebetting is meant to be.

Sound fair? Got better options?

EDIT. Lowered the the buy-out to half of the 2.5k. That is cheap, considering all the disadvantages he's put me into, but I want to get it over with.

[ November 02, 2011, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Riku ]