Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
quote:Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
I'm not sure why there would be an objection to this change.
The "double scoring" argument rings hollow with me. There are tons of examples in the current scoring system where a single scoring play results in double scoring. It's like saying a kicker shouldn't get credit for an extra point because the Defense is already penalized under Points Allowed. Or that a QB shouldn't be awarded 6 points for a TD pass because the WR already got "credit" for the TD.
A special teams TD is an important part of the NFL, and individual NFL players are recognized by their peers as being especially good at it. It alters game plans, for instance teams will intentionally kick balls out of bounds to avoid dangerous return men.
In addition, drafting a player like Sproles or Hester takes on the added risk of these players being injured on a kick return, perhaps the highest risk play in all of football. So when drafting these players, you take on all the risk associated with their special skills and added value to their team, but get none of the reward.
I think it adds a nice dimension to the draft, and the high risk/reward potential of these players should be recognized and reflected in the scoring system. I couldn't agree more. I was surprised that the majority wasn't in favor of this change. I know that I am frustrated when I see one of my players score on special teams only to know that someone else in my league may have received points for that play and I get absolutely nothing. This is the only format in which I play that doesn't reward those scores to the IP.
I would make the point that a 90 yard kick off return deserves 6 points for the individual player just as much as the QB who throws a screen pass five yards behind the line of scrimmage and the RB does all the work while taking it 60 yards to the house.
This is just a minor change and I really don't see the negative impact involved. [/QUOTE]I'm afraid we're beating a dead horse on this one, CoMO...
Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
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Shrink Attack
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Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
"Deserve" ain't got nothin' to do with it
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---Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven
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Greg Ambrosius
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Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
I know you say that you don't get any reward when "your" player scores, but when people draft Chicago's D/ST they are drafting Devin Hester for every punt return he goes back for. Knowing the rules ahead of time, NFFC owners draft Devin Hester for his WR capabilities, not to be frustrated every time he goes back to receive a punt knowing that he can't score for them. The rules are very specific before Draft Day, so Hester's value is based on his receiving abilities and Chicago's Defense/ST is based on their strong defense and strong special teams.
The team that drafts Chicago's D/ST IS DRAFTING HESTER in essence, wouldn't you agree? So honestly, the person who drafted this position is being duly rewarded. Obviously, Hester moves up in our league in value if he's given Special Teams points. But then two teams in each league would get points for that one play. Yeah, I know, like a TD pass, but in that instance it actually did take two people to complete that score.
I hear ya on the reasoning for the individual scoring, but honestly this setup is providing more value to D/STs and NFFC owners are being rewarded for the best individual and team special teams.
The team that drafts Chicago's D/ST IS DRAFTING HESTER in essence, wouldn't you agree? So honestly, the person who drafted this position is being duly rewarded. Obviously, Hester moves up in our league in value if he's given Special Teams points. But then two teams in each league would get points for that one play. Yeah, I know, like a TD pass, but in that instance it actually did take two people to complete that score.
I hear ya on the reasoning for the individual scoring, but honestly this setup is providing more value to D/STs and NFFC owners are being rewarded for the best individual and team special teams.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Shrink Attack
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Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
Originally posted by Sandman62:
Passing TD is two players, one passing, one catching. And your example of a kicker being awarded positive points and a DST negative for the same play doesn't fit either. ALL positive offensive plays chip away at DST's points.
Please cite another "double scoring" example where ONE NFL player's play rewards TWO fantasy players for the same feat??? Why doesn't it fit? Two different Fantasy Owners have their scores affected by one play. Why would you decide that somehow that shouldn't be in the discussion?
A QB throws a pick-6. One Fantasy Owner gets 6 points added to his team's score. Another Fantasy Owner gets 1 point deducted. Double scoring on one play affecting two different teams starting two different rosters.
Again, the double-scoring argument doesn't ring true to me.
I also agree that the polling question was worded in such a way that more people would respond more negatively than positively.
Not seeing a ground swell of support, so I'm not pursuing it further.
Passing TD is two players, one passing, one catching. And your example of a kicker being awarded positive points and a DST negative for the same play doesn't fit either. ALL positive offensive plays chip away at DST's points.
Please cite another "double scoring" example where ONE NFL player's play rewards TWO fantasy players for the same feat??? Why doesn't it fit? Two different Fantasy Owners have their scores affected by one play. Why would you decide that somehow that shouldn't be in the discussion?
A QB throws a pick-6. One Fantasy Owner gets 6 points added to his team's score. Another Fantasy Owner gets 1 point deducted. Double scoring on one play affecting two different teams starting two different rosters.
Again, the double-scoring argument doesn't ring true to me.
I also agree that the polling question was worded in such a way that more people would respond more negatively than positively.
Not seeing a ground swell of support, so I'm not pursuing it further.
"Deserve" ain't got nothin' to do with it
---Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven
---Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven
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Shrink Attack
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Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I know you say that you don't get any reward when "your" player scores, but when people draft Chicago's D/ST they are drafting Devin Hester for every punt return he goes back for. Knowing the rules ahead of time, NFFC owners draft Devin Hester for his WR capabilities, not to be frustrated every time he goes back to receive a punt knowing that he can't score for them. The rules are very specific before Draft Day, so Hester's value is based on his receiving abilities and Chicago's Defense/ST is based on their strong defense and strong special teams.
The team that drafts Chicago's D/ST IS DRAFTING HESTER in essence, wouldn't you agree? So honestly, the person who drafted this position is being duly rewarded. Obviously, Hester moves up in our league in value if he's given Special Teams points. But then two teams in each league would get points for that one play. Yeah, I know, like a TD pass, but in that instance it actually did take two people to complete that score.
I hear ya on the reasoning for the individual scoring, but honestly this setup is providing more value to D/STs and NFFC owners are being rewarded for the best individual and team special teams. Well, I know the point is moot now, but I will add this.
Whenever anyone drafts a QB, they do so knowing how the value is affected by the receivers. Whenever drafting a WR, you do so knowing the value the existing QB adds to that draft pick. When you draft Jordy Nelson, in a sense you're really drafting Aaron Rodgers. Yet, both the QB and the WR are rewarded 6 points for a single passing TD.
I hear what you're saying, Greg. Yes, we all know the rules going in and should draft accordingly. I just think a rule change would be beneficial.
This obviously isn't a big deal. Just my $0.02
I know you say that you don't get any reward when "your" player scores, but when people draft Chicago's D/ST they are drafting Devin Hester for every punt return he goes back for. Knowing the rules ahead of time, NFFC owners draft Devin Hester for his WR capabilities, not to be frustrated every time he goes back to receive a punt knowing that he can't score for them. The rules are very specific before Draft Day, so Hester's value is based on his receiving abilities and Chicago's Defense/ST is based on their strong defense and strong special teams.
The team that drafts Chicago's D/ST IS DRAFTING HESTER in essence, wouldn't you agree? So honestly, the person who drafted this position is being duly rewarded. Obviously, Hester moves up in our league in value if he's given Special Teams points. But then two teams in each league would get points for that one play. Yeah, I know, like a TD pass, but in that instance it actually did take two people to complete that score.
I hear ya on the reasoning for the individual scoring, but honestly this setup is providing more value to D/STs and NFFC owners are being rewarded for the best individual and team special teams. Well, I know the point is moot now, but I will add this.
Whenever anyone drafts a QB, they do so knowing how the value is affected by the receivers. Whenever drafting a WR, you do so knowing the value the existing QB adds to that draft pick. When you draft Jordy Nelson, in a sense you're really drafting Aaron Rodgers. Yet, both the QB and the WR are rewarded 6 points for a single passing TD.
I hear what you're saying, Greg. Yes, we all know the rules going in and should draft accordingly. I just think a rule change would be beneficial.
This obviously isn't a big deal. Just my $0.02
"Deserve" ain't got nothin' to do with it
---Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven
---Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven
Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
quote:Originally posted by Sandman62:
Passing TD is two players, one passing, one catching. And your example of a kicker being awarded positive points and a DST negative for the same play doesn't fit either. ALL positive offensive plays chip away at DST's points.
Please cite another "double scoring" example where ONE NFL player's play rewards TWO fantasy players for the same feat??? Why doesn't it fit? Two different Fantasy Owners have their scores affected by one play. Why would you decide that somehow that shouldn't be in the discussion?
A QB throws a pick-6. One Fantasy Owner gets 6 points added to his team's score. Another Fantasy Owner gets 1 point deducted. Double scoring on one play affecting two different teams starting two different rosters.
Again, the double-scoring argument doesn't ring true to me. [/QUOTE]Because one score is positive and the other negative in your example. And if we didn't have DSTs, that would never occur either. But as long as we do, every play that gains positive yards or scores points will earn some offensive player points and affect DSTs negatively. And every interception or fumble recovery will score a DST positive points, yet affect some offensive player negatively. This is balanced.
But awarding a DST for a special teams act and also awarding an offensive player whose offense isn't even on the field is quite different.
Two different fantasy lineup spots should never both receive positive points for the same "player act". (And I didn't say "play" because I understand that a QB throws a TD and someone catches it.)
quote:Originally posted by Sandman62:
Passing TD is two players, one passing, one catching. And your example of a kicker being awarded positive points and a DST negative for the same play doesn't fit either. ALL positive offensive plays chip away at DST's points.
Please cite another "double scoring" example where ONE NFL player's play rewards TWO fantasy players for the same feat??? Why doesn't it fit? Two different Fantasy Owners have their scores affected by one play. Why would you decide that somehow that shouldn't be in the discussion?
A QB throws a pick-6. One Fantasy Owner gets 6 points added to his team's score. Another Fantasy Owner gets 1 point deducted. Double scoring on one play affecting two different teams starting two different rosters.
Again, the double-scoring argument doesn't ring true to me. [/QUOTE]Because one score is positive and the other negative in your example. And if we didn't have DSTs, that would never occur either. But as long as we do, every play that gains positive yards or scores points will earn some offensive player points and affect DSTs negatively. And every interception or fumble recovery will score a DST positive points, yet affect some offensive player negatively. This is balanced.
But awarding a DST for a special teams act and also awarding an offensive player whose offense isn't even on the field is quite different.
Two different fantasy lineup spots should never both receive positive points for the same "player act". (And I didn't say "play" because I understand that a QB throws a TD and someone catches it.)
Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
... Whenever drafting a WR, you do so knowing the value the existing QB adds to that draft pick. When you draft Jordy Nelson, in a sense you're really drafting Aaron Rodgers. Yet, both the QB and the WR are rewarded 6 points for a single passing TD.Not true. Only the QB is awarded 6 points for a passing TD; the WR is awarded 6 points for a receiving TD.
[ February 13, 2012, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
... Whenever drafting a WR, you do so knowing the value the existing QB adds to that draft pick. When you draft Jordy Nelson, in a sense you're really drafting Aaron Rodgers. Yet, both the QB and the WR are rewarded 6 points for a single passing TD.Not true. Only the QB is awarded 6 points for a passing TD; the WR is awarded 6 points for a receiving TD.
[ February 13, 2012, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
A QB and WR both get 6 points for one TD scoring play.
Why can't the individual kick returner and the DST both get 6 points for one TD scoring play?
Why can't the individual kick returner and the DST both get 6 points for one TD scoring play?
Daren E
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Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
Because on the pass play, the QB and the WR did two different acts. The kick returner did one act while he was on special teams.
If part of the goal of high-stakes FF is to reduce the luck factor as much as possible, why would we want to add this new mostly-random luck element? I say "luck" because punt and kick return TDs occur SO much less frequently than other TDs (which is why they're usually just lumped into the DST position in many leagues). However, there are FAR more DST TDs scored by INT and fumble recoveries (80 combined last year) than punt and kickoff returns (28 combined), or 3/4. And I would think that most fantasy players draft DSTs based mostly on their defense and only marginally due to special teams.
Seriously, are we really just talking about Devin Hester and the Bears DST here? Would anyone really draft Sproles, Brown and Harvin earlier if kick/punt return TDs were awarded 6 points just because they each scored ONE TD that way last year? Highly doubtful, IMO.
Contrast this minimal amount of largely-unpredictable and largely-useless scoring ("useless" because the majority of players who score this way won't be in many/any NFFC lineups) with a traditional scoring type, like receiving TDs. Even excluding players who caught less than 3 TDs last year, there were still over 600! Well, now THAT's not such a random event and it occurs frequently enough to warrant rewarding this feat.
I'm already on record as being of the opinion that DSTs and kickers, IMO, increase the luck element, and I wouldn't mind seeing both go away (though I know they won't
). Why would we want to increase luck even more by allowing two different fantasy positions to double-dip and both receive positive fantasy points for ONE NFL player's feat???
That's about as clearly as I can explain this. But if another poll is conducted next year on this issue and the poll doesn't include any background info or points that were made, I fear this rule could someday be changed, even though those who might vote for it may not clearly understand the pros and cons.
The NFFC column below with the * indicates players who might actually be regular fantasy starts (which are precious few).
Punt Return TDs:
Rank NFFC Player Team Pos Value
1 Patrick Peterson Arizona Cardinals CB 4
2 * Devin Hester Chicago Bears WR 2
3 * Darren Sproles New Orleans Saints RB 1
3 Eddie Royal Denver Broncos WR 1
3 Joshua Cribbs Cleveland Browns WR 1
3 Marc Mariani Tennessee Titans WR 1
3 Leodis McKelvin Buffalo Bills CB 1
3 Julian Edelman New England Patriots WR 1
3 Nick Miller St. Louis Rams WR 1
3 Randall Cobb Green Bay Packers WR 1
3 * Antonio Brown Pittsburgh Steelers WR 1
3 * Eric Decker Denver Broncos WR 1
3 Brandon Tate Cincinnati Bengals WR 1
3 Ladarius Webb Baltimore Ravens CB 1
3 Jacoby Jones Houston Texans WR 1
3 Ted Ginn Jr. San Francisco 49ers WR 1
Total 20
Kickoff Return TDs:
Rank Player Team Pos Value
1 Jacoby Ford Oakland Raiders WR 1
1 * Percy Harvin Minnesota Vikings WR 1
1 Ted Ginn Jr. San Francisco 49ers WR 1
1 Richard Goodman San Diego Chargers WR 1
1 * Devin Hester Chicago Bears WR 1
1 Kealoha Pilares Carolina Panthers WR 1
1 Joe McKnight New York Jets RB 1
1 Randall Cobb Green Bay Packers WR 1
Total 8
Defensive INT and Fumble Recovery TDs:
TACKLES SACKS INTERCEPTIONS FUMBLES
RK TEAM SOLO AST TOTAL SACK YDSL PD INT YDS LONG TD FF REC TD
1 Indianapolis 744 508 1252 29 192 47 8 118 32 2 14 9 1
2 NY Giants 861 270 1131 48 335 82 20 157 31 0 16 11 1
3 Buffalo 818 310 1128 29 210 66 20 341 43 4 17 11 2
4 New England 743 383 1126 40 274 56 23 296 38 2 10 11 1
5 Washington 724 386 1110 41 251 74 13 127 30 1 17 8 0
6 Minnesota 798 311 1109 50 342 51 8 152 52 0 20 15 0
7 Seattle 800 298 1098 33 232 80 22 462 94 4 16 9 0
8 Arizona 880 214 1094 42 304 85 10 117 49 0 13 9 0
9 Cleveland 778 280 1058 32 199 70 9 93 29 0 15 11 0
10 Denver 836 218 1054 41 283 58 9 152 55 3 12 9 0
Tennessee 811 243 1054 28 180 70 11 179 97 1 16 12 0
12 Cincinnati 714 333 1047 45 277 72 10 137 75 1 20 12 2
13 San Diego 804 241 1045 32 187 66 17 260 64 1 7 4 1
14 St. Louis 841 195 1036 39 261 65 12 169 51 1 19 6 0
15 Jacksonville 722 309 1031 31 213 62 17 160 30 0 22 11 3
16 Green Bay 781 248 1029 29 192 99 31 468 76 4 14 7 1
17 Detroit 793 231 1024 41 271 73 21 458 100 5 17 13 2
18 Baltimore 758 254 1012 48 290 108 15 175 73 1 21 11 3
19 Carolina 742 260 1002 31 170 70 14 197 53 0 14 10 0
20 Miami 819 182 1001 41 241 65 16 256 55 1 13 3 0
21 Oakland 799 200 999 39 239 88 18 252 73 0 8 8 1
22 Pittsburgh 720 278 998 35 230 72 11 99 33 0 14 4 1
23 Kansas City 745 247 992 29 186 84 20 283 59 2 14 6 0
24 Tampa Bay 818 171 989 23 148 59 14 195 43 3 13 10 1
25 NY Jets 761 225 986 35 198 71 19 378 100 2 23 12 1
26 Atlanta 688 291 979 33 231 80 19 301 50 2 14 10 1
Dallas 756 223 979 42 243 57 15 217 43 1 14 9 0
28 Chicago 781 188 969 33 208 64 20 177 44 4 15 11 3
29 Philadelphia 780 183 963 50 316 66 15 192 35 1 11 9 3
30 San Francisco 756 172 928 42 284 100 23 284 48 1 20 15 0
31 New Orleans 678 245 923 33 256 93 9 80 42 1 20 7 2
32 Houston 717 202 919 44 287 97 17 196 42 1 16 10 1
49 31
Total: 80
Receiving TDs:
Rank Player Team Pos Value
1 Rob Gronkowski New England Patriots TE 20
2 Calvin Johnson Detroit Lions WR 18
3 Jordy Nelson Green Bay Packers WR 15
4 Jimmy Graham New Orleans Saints TE 14
5 Laurent Robinson Dallas Cowboys WR 11
5 Hakeem Nicks New York Giants WR 11
7 Vernon Davis San Francisco 49ers TE 10
7 Wes Welker New England Patriots WR 10
7 Victor Cruz New York Giants WR 10
10 Dez Bryant Dallas Cowboys WR 9
10 Vincent Jackson San Diego Chargers WR 9
10 Marques Colston New Orleans Saints WR 9
10 Greg Jennings Green Bay Packers WR 9
10 Aaron Hernandez New England Patriots TE 9
15 Torrey Smith Baltimore Ravens WR 8
15 Lance Moore New Orleans Saints WR 8
15 Eric Decker Denver Broncos WR 8
15 Roddy White Atlanta Falcons WR 8
15 Larry Fitzgerald Arizona Cardinals WR 8
15 Darren Sproles New Orleans Saints RB 8
15 Julio Jones Atlanta Falcons WR 8
15 Plaxico Burress New York Jets WR 8
15 Mike Wallace Pittsburgh Steelers WR 8
15 Santonio Holmes New York Jets WR 8
15 Jermichael Finley Green Bay Packers TE 8
26 Antonio Gates San Diego Chargers TE 7
26 Donald Driver Green Bay Packers WR 7
26 Miles Austin Dallas Cowboys WR 7
26 Mario Manningham New York Giants WR 7
26 A.J. Green Cincinnati Bengals WR 7
26 Robert Meachem New Orleans Saints WR 7
26 Steve Johnson Buffalo Bills WR 7
26 Nate Washington Tennessee Titans WR 7
26 James Jones Green Bay Packers WR 7
26 Tony Gonzalez Atlanta Falcons TE 7
26 Steve Smith Carolina Panthers WR 7
37 Brandon Marshall Miami Dolphins WR 6
37 Deion Branch New England Patriots WR 6
37 Jermaine Gresham Cincinnati Bengals TE 6
37 Pierre Garcon Indianapolis Colts WR 6
37 Tony Scheffler Detroit Lions TE 6
37 Dezmon Briscoe Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR 6
37 Titus Young Detroit Lions WR 6
37 Percy Harvin Minnesota Vikings WR 6
37 Scott Chandler Buffalo Bills TE 6
37 Joel Dreessen Houston Texans TE 6
47 Jason Witten Dallas Cowboys TE 5
47 Michael Crabtree San Francisco 49ers WR 5
47 Ed Dickson Baltimore Ravens TE 5
47 Anthony Fasano Miami Dolphins TE 5
47 Brent Celek Philadelphia Eagles TE 5
47 Demaryius Thomas Denver Broncos WR 5
47 Greg Olsen Chicago Bears TE 5
47 Dustin Keller New York Jets TE 5
47 Denarius Moore Oakland Raiders WR 5
47 David Nelson Buffalo Bills WR 5
47 Dwayne Bowe Kansas City Chiefs WR 5
47 Brandon Pettigrew Detroit Lions TE 5
47 Jeremy Maclin Philadelphia Eagles WR 5
47 Jabar Gaffney Denver Broncos WR 5
47 Damian Williams Tennessee Titans WR 5
47 Early Doucet Arizona Cardinals WR 5
47 Brandon Lloyd St. Louis Rams WR 5
47 Kellen Davis Chicago Bears TE 5
47 Malcom Floyd San Diego Chargers WR 5
66 Doug Baldwin Seattle Seahawks WR 4
66 Santana Moss Washington Redskins WR 4
66 Anquan Boldin Baltimore Ravens WR 4
66 Dennis Pitta Baltimore Ravens TE 4
66 Darrius Heyward-Bey Oakland Raiders WR 4
66 Jerome Simpson Cincinnati Bengals WR 4
66 Jeremy Shockey New Orleans Saints TE 4
66 Evan Moore Cleveland Browns TE 4
66 Jake Ballard New York Giants TE 4
66 DeSean Jackson Philadelphia Eagles WR 4
66 Joshua Cribbs Cleveland Browns WR 4
66 Reggie Wayne Indianapolis Colts WR 4
78 Kevin Boss Oakland Raiders TE 3
78 Delanie Walker San Francisco 49ers TE 3
78 Kevin Smith Detroit Lions RB 3
78 Owen Daniels Houston Texans TE 3
78 Charles Clay Miami Dolphins FB 3
78 Andre Caldwell Cincinnati Bengals WR 3
78 Fred Davis Washington Redskins TE 3
78 Golden Tate Seattle Seahawks WR 3
78 Kyle Rudolph Minnesota Vikings TE 3
78 Nate Burleson Detroit Lions WR 3
78 Davone Bess Miami Dolphins WR 3
78 Kyle Williams San Francisco 49ers WR 3
78 Andre Johnson Houston Texans WR 3
78 LeSean McCoy Philadelphia Eagles RB 3
78 Michael Jenkins Atlanta Falcons WR 3
78 Daniel Fells Denver Broncos TE 3
78 Mike Williams Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR 3
78 Jared Cook Tennessee Titans TE 3
78 Jerricho Cotchery New York Jets WR 3
78 Toby Gerhart Minnesota Vikings RB 3
78 Kevin Walter Houston Texans WR 3
78 Jeff King Arizona Cardinals TE 3
78 Ray Rice Baltimore Ravens RB 3
Total 601
Sources:
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player- ... touchdowns
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... asontype/2
[ February 14, 2012, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
If part of the goal of high-stakes FF is to reduce the luck factor as much as possible, why would we want to add this new mostly-random luck element? I say "luck" because punt and kick return TDs occur SO much less frequently than other TDs (which is why they're usually just lumped into the DST position in many leagues). However, there are FAR more DST TDs scored by INT and fumble recoveries (80 combined last year) than punt and kickoff returns (28 combined), or 3/4. And I would think that most fantasy players draft DSTs based mostly on their defense and only marginally due to special teams.
Seriously, are we really just talking about Devin Hester and the Bears DST here? Would anyone really draft Sproles, Brown and Harvin earlier if kick/punt return TDs were awarded 6 points just because they each scored ONE TD that way last year? Highly doubtful, IMO.
Contrast this minimal amount of largely-unpredictable and largely-useless scoring ("useless" because the majority of players who score this way won't be in many/any NFFC lineups) with a traditional scoring type, like receiving TDs. Even excluding players who caught less than 3 TDs last year, there were still over 600! Well, now THAT's not such a random event and it occurs frequently enough to warrant rewarding this feat.
I'm already on record as being of the opinion that DSTs and kickers, IMO, increase the luck element, and I wouldn't mind seeing both go away (though I know they won't
). Why would we want to increase luck even more by allowing two different fantasy positions to double-dip and both receive positive fantasy points for ONE NFL player's feat???That's about as clearly as I can explain this. But if another poll is conducted next year on this issue and the poll doesn't include any background info or points that were made, I fear this rule could someday be changed, even though those who might vote for it may not clearly understand the pros and cons.
The NFFC column below with the * indicates players who might actually be regular fantasy starts (which are precious few).
Punt Return TDs:
Rank NFFC Player Team Pos Value
1 Patrick Peterson Arizona Cardinals CB 4
2 * Devin Hester Chicago Bears WR 2
3 * Darren Sproles New Orleans Saints RB 1
3 Eddie Royal Denver Broncos WR 1
3 Joshua Cribbs Cleveland Browns WR 1
3 Marc Mariani Tennessee Titans WR 1
3 Leodis McKelvin Buffalo Bills CB 1
3 Julian Edelman New England Patriots WR 1
3 Nick Miller St. Louis Rams WR 1
3 Randall Cobb Green Bay Packers WR 1
3 * Antonio Brown Pittsburgh Steelers WR 1
3 * Eric Decker Denver Broncos WR 1
3 Brandon Tate Cincinnati Bengals WR 1
3 Ladarius Webb Baltimore Ravens CB 1
3 Jacoby Jones Houston Texans WR 1
3 Ted Ginn Jr. San Francisco 49ers WR 1
Total 20
Kickoff Return TDs:
Rank Player Team Pos Value
1 Jacoby Ford Oakland Raiders WR 1
1 * Percy Harvin Minnesota Vikings WR 1
1 Ted Ginn Jr. San Francisco 49ers WR 1
1 Richard Goodman San Diego Chargers WR 1
1 * Devin Hester Chicago Bears WR 1
1 Kealoha Pilares Carolina Panthers WR 1
1 Joe McKnight New York Jets RB 1
1 Randall Cobb Green Bay Packers WR 1
Total 8
Defensive INT and Fumble Recovery TDs:
TACKLES SACKS INTERCEPTIONS FUMBLES
RK TEAM SOLO AST TOTAL SACK YDSL PD INT YDS LONG TD FF REC TD
1 Indianapolis 744 508 1252 29 192 47 8 118 32 2 14 9 1
2 NY Giants 861 270 1131 48 335 82 20 157 31 0 16 11 1
3 Buffalo 818 310 1128 29 210 66 20 341 43 4 17 11 2
4 New England 743 383 1126 40 274 56 23 296 38 2 10 11 1
5 Washington 724 386 1110 41 251 74 13 127 30 1 17 8 0
6 Minnesota 798 311 1109 50 342 51 8 152 52 0 20 15 0
7 Seattle 800 298 1098 33 232 80 22 462 94 4 16 9 0
8 Arizona 880 214 1094 42 304 85 10 117 49 0 13 9 0
9 Cleveland 778 280 1058 32 199 70 9 93 29 0 15 11 0
10 Denver 836 218 1054 41 283 58 9 152 55 3 12 9 0
Tennessee 811 243 1054 28 180 70 11 179 97 1 16 12 0
12 Cincinnati 714 333 1047 45 277 72 10 137 75 1 20 12 2
13 San Diego 804 241 1045 32 187 66 17 260 64 1 7 4 1
14 St. Louis 841 195 1036 39 261 65 12 169 51 1 19 6 0
15 Jacksonville 722 309 1031 31 213 62 17 160 30 0 22 11 3
16 Green Bay 781 248 1029 29 192 99 31 468 76 4 14 7 1
17 Detroit 793 231 1024 41 271 73 21 458 100 5 17 13 2
18 Baltimore 758 254 1012 48 290 108 15 175 73 1 21 11 3
19 Carolina 742 260 1002 31 170 70 14 197 53 0 14 10 0
20 Miami 819 182 1001 41 241 65 16 256 55 1 13 3 0
21 Oakland 799 200 999 39 239 88 18 252 73 0 8 8 1
22 Pittsburgh 720 278 998 35 230 72 11 99 33 0 14 4 1
23 Kansas City 745 247 992 29 186 84 20 283 59 2 14 6 0
24 Tampa Bay 818 171 989 23 148 59 14 195 43 3 13 10 1
25 NY Jets 761 225 986 35 198 71 19 378 100 2 23 12 1
26 Atlanta 688 291 979 33 231 80 19 301 50 2 14 10 1
Dallas 756 223 979 42 243 57 15 217 43 1 14 9 0
28 Chicago 781 188 969 33 208 64 20 177 44 4 15 11 3
29 Philadelphia 780 183 963 50 316 66 15 192 35 1 11 9 3
30 San Francisco 756 172 928 42 284 100 23 284 48 1 20 15 0
31 New Orleans 678 245 923 33 256 93 9 80 42 1 20 7 2
32 Houston 717 202 919 44 287 97 17 196 42 1 16 10 1
49 31
Total: 80
Receiving TDs:
Rank Player Team Pos Value
1 Rob Gronkowski New England Patriots TE 20
2 Calvin Johnson Detroit Lions WR 18
3 Jordy Nelson Green Bay Packers WR 15
4 Jimmy Graham New Orleans Saints TE 14
5 Laurent Robinson Dallas Cowboys WR 11
5 Hakeem Nicks New York Giants WR 11
7 Vernon Davis San Francisco 49ers TE 10
7 Wes Welker New England Patriots WR 10
7 Victor Cruz New York Giants WR 10
10 Dez Bryant Dallas Cowboys WR 9
10 Vincent Jackson San Diego Chargers WR 9
10 Marques Colston New Orleans Saints WR 9
10 Greg Jennings Green Bay Packers WR 9
10 Aaron Hernandez New England Patriots TE 9
15 Torrey Smith Baltimore Ravens WR 8
15 Lance Moore New Orleans Saints WR 8
15 Eric Decker Denver Broncos WR 8
15 Roddy White Atlanta Falcons WR 8
15 Larry Fitzgerald Arizona Cardinals WR 8
15 Darren Sproles New Orleans Saints RB 8
15 Julio Jones Atlanta Falcons WR 8
15 Plaxico Burress New York Jets WR 8
15 Mike Wallace Pittsburgh Steelers WR 8
15 Santonio Holmes New York Jets WR 8
15 Jermichael Finley Green Bay Packers TE 8
26 Antonio Gates San Diego Chargers TE 7
26 Donald Driver Green Bay Packers WR 7
26 Miles Austin Dallas Cowboys WR 7
26 Mario Manningham New York Giants WR 7
26 A.J. Green Cincinnati Bengals WR 7
26 Robert Meachem New Orleans Saints WR 7
26 Steve Johnson Buffalo Bills WR 7
26 Nate Washington Tennessee Titans WR 7
26 James Jones Green Bay Packers WR 7
26 Tony Gonzalez Atlanta Falcons TE 7
26 Steve Smith Carolina Panthers WR 7
37 Brandon Marshall Miami Dolphins WR 6
37 Deion Branch New England Patriots WR 6
37 Jermaine Gresham Cincinnati Bengals TE 6
37 Pierre Garcon Indianapolis Colts WR 6
37 Tony Scheffler Detroit Lions TE 6
37 Dezmon Briscoe Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR 6
37 Titus Young Detroit Lions WR 6
37 Percy Harvin Minnesota Vikings WR 6
37 Scott Chandler Buffalo Bills TE 6
37 Joel Dreessen Houston Texans TE 6
47 Jason Witten Dallas Cowboys TE 5
47 Michael Crabtree San Francisco 49ers WR 5
47 Ed Dickson Baltimore Ravens TE 5
47 Anthony Fasano Miami Dolphins TE 5
47 Brent Celek Philadelphia Eagles TE 5
47 Demaryius Thomas Denver Broncos WR 5
47 Greg Olsen Chicago Bears TE 5
47 Dustin Keller New York Jets TE 5
47 Denarius Moore Oakland Raiders WR 5
47 David Nelson Buffalo Bills WR 5
47 Dwayne Bowe Kansas City Chiefs WR 5
47 Brandon Pettigrew Detroit Lions TE 5
47 Jeremy Maclin Philadelphia Eagles WR 5
47 Jabar Gaffney Denver Broncos WR 5
47 Damian Williams Tennessee Titans WR 5
47 Early Doucet Arizona Cardinals WR 5
47 Brandon Lloyd St. Louis Rams WR 5
47 Kellen Davis Chicago Bears TE 5
47 Malcom Floyd San Diego Chargers WR 5
66 Doug Baldwin Seattle Seahawks WR 4
66 Santana Moss Washington Redskins WR 4
66 Anquan Boldin Baltimore Ravens WR 4
66 Dennis Pitta Baltimore Ravens TE 4
66 Darrius Heyward-Bey Oakland Raiders WR 4
66 Jerome Simpson Cincinnati Bengals WR 4
66 Jeremy Shockey New Orleans Saints TE 4
66 Evan Moore Cleveland Browns TE 4
66 Jake Ballard New York Giants TE 4
66 DeSean Jackson Philadelphia Eagles WR 4
66 Joshua Cribbs Cleveland Browns WR 4
66 Reggie Wayne Indianapolis Colts WR 4
78 Kevin Boss Oakland Raiders TE 3
78 Delanie Walker San Francisco 49ers TE 3
78 Kevin Smith Detroit Lions RB 3
78 Owen Daniels Houston Texans TE 3
78 Charles Clay Miami Dolphins FB 3
78 Andre Caldwell Cincinnati Bengals WR 3
78 Fred Davis Washington Redskins TE 3
78 Golden Tate Seattle Seahawks WR 3
78 Kyle Rudolph Minnesota Vikings TE 3
78 Nate Burleson Detroit Lions WR 3
78 Davone Bess Miami Dolphins WR 3
78 Kyle Williams San Francisco 49ers WR 3
78 Andre Johnson Houston Texans WR 3
78 LeSean McCoy Philadelphia Eagles RB 3
78 Michael Jenkins Atlanta Falcons WR 3
78 Daniel Fells Denver Broncos TE 3
78 Mike Williams Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR 3
78 Jared Cook Tennessee Titans TE 3
78 Jerricho Cotchery New York Jets WR 3
78 Toby Gerhart Minnesota Vikings RB 3
78 Kevin Walter Houston Texans WR 3
78 Jeff King Arizona Cardinals TE 3
78 Ray Rice Baltimore Ravens RB 3
Total 601
Sources:
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player- ... touchdowns
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... asontype/2
[ February 14, 2012, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
I still think defensive scoring should be based on points allowed only. Then it can be handicaped just like a RB or QB. Int or fumbles are nothing but luck just look at the super bowl Gialnts fumble twice ball bounces back to then no points for or against., nothing. Another reason that cost me the playoffs.a couple of years back. I had the player in my line up my opponent had special teams and the player returned to kicks for TD. I got 0 and he got 12 when I was the one who had the player. How would you like Calvin Johnson in your line up he scores twice and you get nothing. If he is your player and in your line up you should get the points, (no yardage) but defense should be based on points allowed only. Went to this years ago in some local leagues and eveyone absolutely loves it.
when you figure out there is no way to figure it out your almost there
Punt Return/Kick Return TDs
You didn't have "the player" because you drafted him as an offensive player.
We went through this whole mess a few years ago when Eddie Royal scored two special teams TDs. How many people are starting him the last few years in their fantasy lineups?
Seriously, this really does seem to be limited to Devin Hester, as he's the only one whose value is boosted much. The rest are pretty darned random.
We went through this whole mess a few years ago when Eddie Royal scored two special teams TDs. How many people are starting him the last few years in their fantasy lineups?
Seriously, this really does seem to be limited to Devin Hester, as he's the only one whose value is boosted much. The rest are pretty darned random.