Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
Is a $50 Events Fee enough of a disincentive for the Live vs. Online decision?
Personally, I think you guys have made it too easy on people. No, but any more than that and maybe you kill that area, too.
We talked about this the other day and I think we both agree that the economy and the way we all shop today has changed since 2004. While it would be great to have a live event in several NFL cities, the reality of today's situation is that folks are doing more online with less costs and we have to continue to go there too. Our costs are exhorbitant with the live events compared to now owning our own draft software, so it would be easy for us to abandon the live events model. But we don't want to do that and we won't, but we need to monetize our game more online and we will continue to do that. [/QUOTE]Fair enough. As you will recall, I told you my concerns a year ago as well. Things have certainly moved in that direction, but I don't necessarily blame you and/or Fanball.
How about tying in some bonus prizes but ONLY if you attend a live draft? You want to build as many incentives as possible to get people into these live draft rooms. [/QUOTE]I agree Glenn with the addition of some bonus prizes for those who attend the live event. I would hate to see all of these high stakes contests turn into online contests as I like going out to Vegas each year and seeing old friends and those I'm competing against in my leagues.
Online drafts are nothing like the real thing...live drafts rock!!!!
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The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
Bauler Shot Caller
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Glenneration X
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The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
Though I play online events, it's completely ancillary in my mind to the Live Events. There's nothing like it. The live events are what hooked me. I'll never forget what it was like walking into the Hilton the first time for the NFBC in 2009 and seeing all those tables filled with players ready to draft their baseball teams. I seriously don't think I would have become as committed to High Stakes contests if I hadn't experienced it live.
I also don't think Vegas only for the live events is the way to go. Last year for the NFFC, NYC outdrew Vegas. The problem isn't expanding, the problem is the timing and possibly some of the locations chosen. The economy is brutal right now & people are hesitant to spend any more discretionary income than they have to. However once the economy turns, and eventually it will, people will spend money again. Many of those who love fantasy sports will consider spending it on live events. Choose the cities wisely, make sure they are "destination" sites so there's more to do than just attend a draft, so people can bring their families if they choose, so those who attend can make the draft "part" of the experience instead of the only experience. It'll make it easier to sell to our more cautious better halves.
Also, I like what you did in baseball with the $500 Live DP offering. For those who wanted to experience a live national draft but were anxious about the costs, they were given an opportunity for a lesser investment. It's a cost leader, and once these new players finally experienced a live event, I'm sure many were hooked as I was. Next year, especially if they have some success, they'll possibly move up to the larger events like I did my 2nd year with the Super in baseball or as I did in football last year by registering for more events & contests. I met two young co-owners during one of the breaks during the Live DP that were only playing that contest. They were so into it, so serious about it. They are your future Main Event customers.
Lastly, maybe the dynamic of these National High Stakes contests have changed and the Live Drafts aren't the only selling point. However, I think even if online is the more profitable venture and maybe attract the larger customer base, the Live drafts will remain necessary to support the online ventures. I compare it to the music industry. The songs may sell through discs & I-tunes, however it is the concert tours (the Live Events) that create the excitement that drive the sales.
Maybe you scale down the live locations until the economy bounces back. However, I personally hope Live events remain a big part of the NFFC's and this industry's future. I'm relatively new to all this and I haven't had nearly enough yet.
Glenn
I also don't think Vegas only for the live events is the way to go. Last year for the NFFC, NYC outdrew Vegas. The problem isn't expanding, the problem is the timing and possibly some of the locations chosen. The economy is brutal right now & people are hesitant to spend any more discretionary income than they have to. However once the economy turns, and eventually it will, people will spend money again. Many of those who love fantasy sports will consider spending it on live events. Choose the cities wisely, make sure they are "destination" sites so there's more to do than just attend a draft, so people can bring their families if they choose, so those who attend can make the draft "part" of the experience instead of the only experience. It'll make it easier to sell to our more cautious better halves.
Also, I like what you did in baseball with the $500 Live DP offering. For those who wanted to experience a live national draft but were anxious about the costs, they were given an opportunity for a lesser investment. It's a cost leader, and once these new players finally experienced a live event, I'm sure many were hooked as I was. Next year, especially if they have some success, they'll possibly move up to the larger events like I did my 2nd year with the Super in baseball or as I did in football last year by registering for more events & contests. I met two young co-owners during one of the breaks during the Live DP that were only playing that contest. They were so into it, so serious about it. They are your future Main Event customers.
Lastly, maybe the dynamic of these National High Stakes contests have changed and the Live Drafts aren't the only selling point. However, I think even if online is the more profitable venture and maybe attract the larger customer base, the Live drafts will remain necessary to support the online ventures. I compare it to the music industry. The songs may sell through discs & I-tunes, however it is the concert tours (the Live Events) that create the excitement that drive the sales.
Maybe you scale down the live locations until the economy bounces back. However, I personally hope Live events remain a big part of the NFFC's and this industry's future. I'm relatively new to all this and I haven't had nearly enough yet.
Glenn
The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
Live events are the thing that provides the most excitement imo. I myself altered my fantasy dollars at the expense of some auxillary events I have done for years (and the higher payouts) for the ability to draft in all three main events this year.
Dollarwise it isn't the soundest investment move but there is also the fun factor that many of us crave and for me that's being able to see a room full of people drafting at the same time. We can't and shouldn't lose that imo.
Obviously the net profit running purely online events will be greater for the provider but should you take away the live events, then drafting will become for most gamers a purely economical decision where one will draft where the payout percentage is greatest. As a company you may suffer long term since all major contests would then see their margins compress as you lose the loyalty factor for the am I getting 89.2 versus 93.6 payback etc.
Just my random thoughts...
Dollarwise it isn't the soundest investment move but there is also the fun factor that many of us crave and for me that's being able to see a room full of people drafting at the same time. We can't and shouldn't lose that imo.
Obviously the net profit running purely online events will be greater for the provider but should you take away the live events, then drafting will become for most gamers a purely economical decision where one will draft where the payout percentage is greatest. As a company you may suffer long term since all major contests would then see their margins compress as you lose the loyalty factor for the am I getting 89.2 versus 93.6 payback etc.
Just my random thoughts...
Never do card tricks for the people you play poker with.
The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
One other thing Greg on the muti city approach. As we discussed early on, I had a concern that you might be spreading yourself a bit thin in this economy and with three main contests all competing for our fantasy dollars. However let's all not forget part of the numbers issue for the NFFC is that y'all started later this year. Don't underestimate the effect that this may have had on the live events as many started placing their dollars with contests that had their sites up, locations announced etc. it did matter as the NFFC has imo been playing catch up in Football in 2010...
Never do card tricks for the people you play poker with.
The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
There is nothing better than live events. i have said for a long time ac is the place to draft. i know greg has said that weekend is hard to book. im sure you can get a room discount rate and there has to be at least a convention hall to draft if the hotels dont have the room. vegas only is not the way to go. people complained about nyc being to expensive but look at the turnout. it was great last year. why change something that was not broken.
THIS IS THE BUSINESS WE HAVE CHOSEN
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Tom Kessenich
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The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
A couple of things I'd like to add. For years we've been told "City A" or "City B" would result in big numbers for the NFFC. We were told that about both Tampa and Orlando and that failed to materialize. We were told that about Boston and despite the fact we have a five-star hotel location with a great price the turnout hasn't been strong and there isn't a single newcomer to the event there. The list is comprised entirely of people who previously have drafted in New York.
So we need to remember these things when people nominate Atlantic City as the way to go. Perhaps it is but I recall when we had the discussion about AC vs. New York for the NFBC a few years, the results were strongly in favor of staying in New York. And prior to this year, the signups in New York had strongly rivaled and often surpassed the ones in Vegas. New York, in fact, was the No. 1 location in three previous years for the NFFC. So moving away from New York was not an easy decision to make when you had 8-9 leagues there as we often had in the past.
Now, looking at this year things have obviously changed in New York. Is it the Citi Field location? Perhaps. But the reality is that remaining in Manhattan was not financially reasonable given the costs involved. Ryan was there with me for the 2009 NFFC and both of us took one look at the bill and said we can't stay here. While the Hilton and Sheraton were great sites with great staffs, the fees associated with those hotels were outrageous. For us to remain there, at some point we would have to transfer some of those costs to the participants simply to make ends meet.
Will the costs be better in Atlantic City moving forward? We can certainly explore those options. Will all of the New York signups we once had go there or will we lose many of them to other cities, the Online option or lose them completely because of the location? That's another question as well. The most difficult part of this job is finding the right location. Not every location meets the size requirements we need or can do so at a price that makes sense and enables us to keep your entry fees where they are.
So keep the discussion coming. This is all good stuff. I just wanted to toss some things out there as far as the AC vs. New York discussion goes.
So we need to remember these things when people nominate Atlantic City as the way to go. Perhaps it is but I recall when we had the discussion about AC vs. New York for the NFBC a few years, the results were strongly in favor of staying in New York. And prior to this year, the signups in New York had strongly rivaled and often surpassed the ones in Vegas. New York, in fact, was the No. 1 location in three previous years for the NFFC. So moving away from New York was not an easy decision to make when you had 8-9 leagues there as we often had in the past.
Now, looking at this year things have obviously changed in New York. Is it the Citi Field location? Perhaps. But the reality is that remaining in Manhattan was not financially reasonable given the costs involved. Ryan was there with me for the 2009 NFFC and both of us took one look at the bill and said we can't stay here. While the Hilton and Sheraton were great sites with great staffs, the fees associated with those hotels were outrageous. For us to remain there, at some point we would have to transfer some of those costs to the participants simply to make ends meet.
Will the costs be better in Atlantic City moving forward? We can certainly explore those options. Will all of the New York signups we once had go there or will we lose many of them to other cities, the Online option or lose them completely because of the location? That's another question as well. The most difficult part of this job is finding the right location. Not every location meets the size requirements we need or can do so at a price that makes sense and enables us to keep your entry fees where they are.
So keep the discussion coming. This is all good stuff. I just wanted to toss some things out there as far as the AC vs. New York discussion goes.
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
I agree 100% with those who have said Vegas/AC/Chicago, particularly for football where you are holding the draft over Labor Day weekend. I don't get the Citifield thing at all. If it was in AC, I could turn it into a weekend.
The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
Tom: It seems to me the that oe answer to the slow Citifield sign ups is that you're holding the draft over the busiest shore weekend of the year in the Mid Atlantic. Alot of people can't ditch that Saturday. I think that if you had it in AC, it would be easier for many of us in the PA/NJ/NY/DEL area to convince the family that a trip to Southern Jersey Shore sites (with a side Saturday trip to AC) is in order.
The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
But wouldn't Labor Day weekend be the busiest shore weekend EVERY year, not just this one? 
The Multi-City Live Event Discussion
Yes, but I'm not sure whether the draft has always been Labor Day weekend.