Hats Off To Golden Tornado

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:25 am

even more impressive for shawn childs in baseball is that he's finished in the TOP FIVE, FOUR times in 6 years.

that my friends is the textbook definition of skill winning out.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:42 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:
quote:Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
quote:Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
I just noticed that Golden Tornado is number 5 overall in the Classic and number 1 overall in the Primetime. That alone is pretty darn great. But... He is also number 1 overall in the WCOFF through week 8, so his run is AMAZING! Great job so far and hats off to your drafting, management and luck skills to date.

Pete Yep...this hobby is mostly luck alright. [/QUOTE]i musta missed this one Paul. i'm guessing you're trying to jab me here.

i love when people take one instance and try and use it as PROOF that this is primarily a game of skill. was this owner ranked in prior years? where will he finish next year? Now Paul wants to chalk this up to a game of skill. As always, you are free to think whatever you want, but consider what I recently wrote in a PM to a top fantasy football gamer (no offense to anyone)…

“Success in fantasy football is based primarily on “luck”. As long as someone has an average knowledge of fantasy football, their success (on average) will almost be as good as someone who is considered an “expert”.

If you want to compare, look at Billy Waz’s success playing high stakes fantasy football. After 5 years, he’s the LIFETIME points leader in the NFFC, yet, he’s only won 1 league title and has never finished in the Top 10 at season’s end. In comparison, in fantasy baseball, Shawn Childs is widely regarded as the best player in the world. He’s won an impressive 4 league titles in 6 years and has finished in the Top 10, 4 times!!!! No comparison…luck reigns supreme in fantasy football.”

Players ONLY playing fantasy football don’t realize how much luck is involved. I understand; we ALL want to think this is primarily a game of skill. Heck, after winning the 100K in 2004, I thought it was mostly skill. Then reality set in. I was biased and looking at one instance. [/QUOTE]Mark,

There is no question there is more luck in football than in baseball. More weeks, ore players, no playoff system where everyone "resets" after 13 weeks, etc. and the "hottest" teams over 3 weeks finish at the top.

However, while I have only won ONE championship in the 14 team NFFC in FIVE seasons, I finished 2nd in three others.

That is 4 of 5 years making a profit in the NFFC Classic. I like to think that there is more skill than luck (since only one other person has made the Classic championship round in 4 of 5 years), but to each their own.

I gotta believe Mark, that if you would of been able to get back to championship round even once after yours and Jason Emma's 100K season of 2004, that you wouldn't be saying this is "so much" luck.

I know when you were not good in baseball the first two years, you made a post about how baseball was a waste, took too much time, etc.

The point is (and you even said this after you won in 2004), when you (in general, bot you sepcific) are doing well you want to say it is skill, and when you are not, it is due to luck.

I for example this year am holding my own in the Classic and some other leagues, but am not currently in line to win nearly as much as I have in the past. Am I now a lousy player?? I would hope not, but it is VERY difficult in any fantasy league to win CONSISTENTLY, and just like in the NFL, MLB, "life", you are gonna have great days, good days, bad days, and downright awful days.
Same goes here, only we generally gauge it by the year's total.

I mean the Buffalo Bills went to FOUR straight Super Bowls but fell short every time, and now they are a pretty poor franchise.

Remember after a couple years when people were saying who the best players in the NFFC were??? That was crazy (small sample size). Is 6 years enough??? Maybe, but it isn't as good as 10, 20, or 30!

Things go in cycles, but as for luck, I believe the BETTER players are going to distinguish themselves over time.

As for baseball, there may be more luck than you think in there too. How else do you explain you finishing 96th overall and me finishing 107th overall?

After all this was your FIFTH (or was it SIXTH?) of the MFBC Main Event, and it was my FIRST. And I know for a fact you probably put about 400-500 more hours of time (prep and in season) than I did.

There is luck in everything we do, Mark. However OVER TIME, the best players will win out more often than not.

[ November 04, 2009, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:52 am

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
The point is (and you even said this after you won in 2004), when you (in general, bot you sepcific) are doing well you want to say it is skill, and when you are not, it is due to luck.
this simply isn't the case. i've won 20K the past three years playing fantasy football. i did this by playing in less than 25 leagues, and i didn't play in any Supers or Ultimates to get that 20K. i have a feeling that i'm well above average on the "Profit Scoreboard" for the past three years.

so, i've been successful at BOTH fantasy football and baseball the past three years. the point you made above is factually untrue. sorry

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:54 am

Also, when the league assignments came out, you were the FIRST person to let everyone know that YOU THOUGHT your Classic league was one of the toughest out there.

What were you basing that on???

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:55 am

GG wrote: 'If you want to compare, look at Billy Waz’s success playing high stakes fantasy football. After 5 years, he’s the LIFETIME points leader in the NFFC, yet, he’s only won 1 league title and has never finished in the Top 10 at season’s end.'

Maybe we should re-thinking that Billy is the best. Or maybe with alittle more luck he will win the Overall Contest.

Luck plays a bigger role in Fantasy Football than Baseball, but over time the better players will win there share.

John

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:55 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
The point is (and you even said this after you won in 2004), when you (in general, bot you sepcific) are doing well you want to say it is skill, and when you are not, it is due to luck.
this simply isn't the case. i've won 20K the past three years playing fantasy football. i did this by playing in less than 25 leagues, and i didn't play in any Supers or Ultimates to get that 20K. i have a feeling that i'm well above average on the "Profit Scoreboard" for the past three years.

so, i've been successful at BOTH fantasy football and baseball the past three years. the point you made above is factually untrue. sorry [/QUOTE]I was strictly talking about the NFFC Classic (14 teamer)...sorry for the confusion.

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:59 am

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
As for baseball, there may be more luck than you think in there too. How else do you explain you finishing 96th overall and me finishing 107th overall?

After all this was your FIFTH (or was it SIXTH?) of the MFBC Main Event, and it was my FIRST. And I know for a fact you probably put about 400-500 more hours of time (prep and in season) than I did.
I fed you player nuggets, strategy nuggets, etc…all offseason, just like I am this season. If you want to see how you can do on your own, as discussed, we can cut off the nuggets in 2010 (even though you already got some out of me). Your choice!

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:02 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko II:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
As for baseball, there may be more luck than you think in there too. How else do you explain you finishing 96th overall and me finishing 107th overall?

After all this was your FIFTH (or was it SIXTH?) of the MFBC Main Event, and it was my FIRST. And I know for a fact you probably put about 400-500 more hours of time (prep and in season) than I did.
I fed you player nuggets, strategy nuggets, etc…all offseason, just like I am this season. If you want to see how you can do on your own, as discussed, we can cut off the nuggets in 2010 (even though you already got some out of me). Your choice! [/QUOTE]WOW!!! So you are taking most of the credit for any success I had in baseball???

You are reminding me of why I couldn't stand you on the boards in 2004/2005 before I actualy met you in person.

SHEESH!! :rolleyes:

OK...no nuggets this offseason is fine with me.

[ November 04, 2009, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:05 am

Originally posted by Raiders:
GG wrote: 'If you want to compare, look at Billy Waz’s success playing high stakes fantasy football. After 5 years, he’s the LIFETIME points leader in the NFFC, yet, he’s only won 1 league title and has never finished in the Top 10 at season’s end.'

Maybe we should re-thinking that Billy is the best. Or maybe with alittle more luck he will win the Overall Contest.

Luck plays a bigger role in Fantasy Football than Baseball, but over time the better players will win there share.

John Let’s suppose there has been a National High Stakes Fantasy Slot Machine event that has been in existence for 5 years. One thing is certain, someone will be the #1 ranked fantasy slot machine owner after five years.

Ted's Cracked Head · Post by **Ted's Cracked Head** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:06 am

Blah Blah Friggin Blah.

Gekko is the GREATEST and Billy is second.

That is done, now can we leave these stupid discussions for some other outlet.