WCOFF

weber7777 · Post by **weber7777** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:03 pm

all i can say as it's disturbing what happened.. shutting down the boards shows how bad off they are.

i got my check the other day.. i will say that.. only after pushing and pushing for months.

however i emailed Jill and Dustin today, thanked them for the years of gaming and service but told them i cannot take part in their league moving foward. it's not fun when you have to scratch and claw for prize $ at the end of a year..

to me there are no 2nd chances.. if Fanball had not paid me within reason i would have the same position here. but at least i talk to tom and greg personally, i know them (and i know where they live@!!!!). and although their game is not guaranteed, i do trust them until they screw me.. if that were to happen then id be done here.. but for now NFFC is the only game i'll play.. and i hope they play in vegas the 1st week, because anyone who puts their $ into the WCOFF is out of their flipping minds..

i got an idea.. if you are thinking about putting $ into the WCOFF, send me your checks, i'll keep half, send you back the other half in 4 months and you'll be better off..LOL..

anyway, Greg and Tom, please don't let me down moving foward.. your really our last hope.

Mike Weber.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:55 am

Originally posted by weber:
all i can say as it's disturbing what happened.. shutting down the boards shows how bad off they are.

i got my check the other day.. i will say that.. only after pushing and pushing for months.

however i emailed Jill and Dustin today, thanked them for the years of gaming and service but told them i cannot take part in their league moving foward. it's not fun when you have to scratch and claw for prize $ at the end of a year..

to me there are no 2nd chances.. if Fanball had not paid me within reason i would have the same position here. but at least i talk to tom and greg personally, i know them (and i know where they live@!!!!). and although their game is not guaranteed, i do trust them until they screw me.. if that were to happen then id be done here.. but for now NFFC is the only game i'll play.. and i hope they play in vegas the 1st week, because anyone who puts their $ into the WCOFF is out of their flipping minds..

i got an idea.. if you are thinking about putting $ into the WCOFF, send me your checks, i'll keep half, send you back the other half in 4 months and you'll be better off..LOL..

anyway, Greg and Tom, please don't let me down moving foward.. your really our last hope.

Mike Weber. Thanks for the update Mike. I saw you were pushing and pushing on those boards for payment and we felt your pain. It's too bad.

I'm not sure what you mean by NFFC prizes aren't guaranteed. We've paid over $8 million over the last seven years in baseball and football and as you know we just had a record-setting NFBC season and will be paying off more than $1.4 million in prizes there. We partnered with STATS to make sure that we have a big company backing and guaranteeing all prizes. Even though you trust Tom and Greg, it's more reassuring when you have a multi-million dollar company backing the operation and that company is co-owned by News Corp and the Associated Press. These prizes are GUARANTEED and then some.

We'll be in Las Vegas the first weekend of the NFL season and in NY, CHI and LV on Labor Day as usual. You'll see our offerings soon and I think you'll like them. It's time to get aggressive and make this the premiere football stop just like we are in baseball. We'll give you plenty of ways to win a national fantasy football championship in 2011, whether it's online or live and whether it's 12-team formats or 14-team formats. We'll have it all!!!

Good luck to all past winners getting paid in the other contest and spread the word that the NFFC is expanding in 2011.

weber7777 · Post by **weber7777** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:37 pm

let me make this 1st point.. i trust you guys and have no doubt you guys will always do right thing.

however you asked about my statement of prize $ being guaranteed. bottom line, it's not. you guys could file chapt 11 or stats could and shut down the contest and not pay .. that could occur.. will it or would it occur.. obviously it's very slim but unless the $ is escrowed and set aside the prize $ is not guaranteed..

that doesn't mean im not playing here or trust you guys, but unless there is 100% chance of paying out winners you can't claim prizes are guaranteed, we've seen that promised time and time again and you've seen the results.

BONGIZMO · Post by **BONGIZMO** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:45 pm

I wanted to post part of a recent post on the WCOFF boards to the other contests as it appears more likely that Dustin will see it here and/or at FFPC than on the WCOFF threads.

WCOFF is doing damage beyond belief with every day that all owed are not payed for 2010. They can continue to hide the boards from public consumption yet they need to take this seriously and get it fixed.

It actually became more disconcerting to find that Dustin who rarely appears on our threads here is in fact monitoring other contests boards? I mean seriously?!

Day 73 in the books and Day 74 about to begin for me since paperwork was processed by WCOFF.

[ April 08, 2011, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: BONGIZMO ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:30 am

Originally posted by weber:
let me make this 1st point.. i trust you guys and have no doubt you guys will always do right thing.

however you asked about my statement of prize $ being guaranteed. bottom line, it's not. you guys could file chapt 11 or stats could and shut down the contest and not pay .. that could occur.. will it or would it occur.. obviously it's very slim but unless the $ is escrowed and set aside the prize $ is not guaranteed..

that doesn't mean im not playing here or trust you guys, but unless there is 100% chance of paying out winners you can't claim prizes are guaranteed, we've seen that promised time and time again and you've seen the results. Mike, I understand your concern about prizes right now and you are right nothing in this space is guaranteed anymore. That being said, the reason we partnered with STATS right away was to give a level of confidence that our contest is not going to go away. We are now backed by a major company that is very profitable on its own. Not only that, but STATS is co-owned by News Corp and the Associated Press, so the likelihood of the NFFC not paying prizes with those companies behind it is very unlikely.

Would it be more reassuring to you to escrow our grand prize or have the backing of our current owners? And if someone is going to escrow the grand prize, shouldn't they then pay this third party more fees to escrow ALL prizes? I mean, sure, we can pay someone to hold onto our $100,000 grand prize, but what about the other $1.2+ million? And in this space where margins are so small, is that a good use of expenses? I think it's reassuring when people need to be reassured about your ability to pay. We have 7+ years of paying millions of dollars in prizes and the backing of a major company, so hopefully that's enough reassurance for most folks.

But I hear what you're saying Mike. In this crazy environment now where winners are fighting for their prize money nothing is guaranteed anymore.

Team Legacy · Post by **Team Legacy** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:13 am

Good points Greg.

Getting paid and paid quickly should be top priority no matter who is behind the contest. That will be the measure by which all contests are judged.

[ April 11, 2011, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: FPA - Scott Atkins ]

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:11 am

Originally posted by weber:

i got my check the other day.. i will say that.. only after pushing and pushing for months.

I'm also glad to hear you have finally gotten paid Mike. You and I talked in Atlantic City for the NFBC and I knew how frustrated you were at the delay so I'm glad this has finally been resolved for you.

I don't know if we're the industry's "last hope" (cue Obi-Wan Kenobi

) but I appreciate the kind words and to echo Greg's point, we have seven years of paying in full with two different companies and there's no reason to believe our third (and best yet) will have any issues in that regard. Even this year with Fanball, while the checks didn't go out as promptly as we expected the money was approved months before by Liberty, which is a huge company. Any delay was simply Fanball choosing not to send them out as promptly as we had delivered in the past. But the money was all there and ready to go.

This is definitely a tumultuous time in the industry and it's disappointing to see what's transpiring with one of our competitors. But like Greg said, hopefully the people who sign up for the NFFC don't just sign up because they trust Greg and myself (although we definitely appreciate that belief) but also knowing that we are backed by a major company.

A big part of our new situation with STATS is to proceed not just aggressively but intelligently. We won't make promises we can't deliver. That doesn't do anyone any good.

weber7777 · Post by **weber7777** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:41 pm

difference tom is that i trust you and greg.. i don't trust the wcoff or any other contest..

there are no guarantees in life but you have to putyour trust in certain people and i do trust you.. so am 100% behind you guys and your the only contest i will enter moving foward.. i may join 10 leagues, but it will be all nffc.

BONGIZMO · Post by **BONGIZMO** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:02 pm

I am posting this here and the FFPC as my guess it won't last long on the WCOFF boards but I feel it may sum up the feelings of many of us that remain unpaid.

[quote name='American Mullet' date='Apr 12 2011, 04:51 PM' post='218965']
These boards were stirred up long before Lou posted. Actually they are getting quieter and quieter. Almost like a lot of people have given up.
[/quote]

Unfortunately Mullett, that's been my biggest concern too. I feel management has chosen to ignore and go completely dark hoping that things will quiet and all of us will go away, especially as they trickle payments out here and there.

As for your post Larry, nothing for anyone to flame you over as you and everyone are entitled to their opinions. Some will be right, some will be wrong and when this entire mess created solely by WCOFF ends, all of us will get to vote the only way possible with our wallets and our mouths.

Being polite hasn't gotten me paid, nor as being angry, sarcastic, political or even vocal. Day 78 closes for me since I was 'processed' and I'm exactly where I have been but with a few less brain cells and probably a few less folks happy about my not just taking Dustin and crew for their word and letting it be 'fixed'.

I still believe I will be payed but I see no reason for confidence in this organization for me to come back. I'll say it before they pay me because rest assured if I don't receive a check I will go back to what I posted early on which upset some fellow long term WCOFF folks but it is true, it will become my sole mission to make sure as many people across our industry know that 2010 winners have not been paid.

Word of mouth, articles, blogs and maybe even an ad in fantasy publications. We all know that outside of the WCOFF magazine, they can't stop things being printed if it's my nickel doing it. Radical yes, idle threat no, all based on principle because noone else should have to have the fun sucked out of the hobby they love by having to go through all we are to simply get our winnings.

Scott

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:35 am

Originally posted by weber:
difference tom is that i trust you and greg.We don't take that for granted Mike, believe me, and we certainly appreciate it. Greg and I have worked very hard over the years to establish that trust with our participants in all of our events and one of the key reasons why is we have always paid our winners. Greg and I have shifted locales in recent years but that's remained a constant and as I said before there's no reason to expect that to change now that we're with our best company yet.