AFFL and Question to the NFFC

bald is beautiful · Post by **bald is beautiful** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:03 am

GG - I know the civil side of the law well, or in other words, getting monetary damages and associated remedies. I am not knowledgeable on the various criminal laws which might apply.

Nag' · Post by **Nag'** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:18 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Dave, you may have deleted your post, but of course Nag copied it first and then added his own jab at the NFFC. That one is prominently on the page with Neil's latest reply. Thanks.
If I wanted to take a jab at the NFFC, I would've done it here. You misinterpreted my post. I was not talking about you or NFFC.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:38 am

Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Dave, you may have deleted your post, but of course Nag copied it first and then added his own jab at the NFFC. That one is prominently on the page with Neil's latest reply. Thanks.
If I wanted to take a jab at the NFFC, I would've done it here. You misinterpreted my post. I was not talking about you or NFFC. [/QUOTE]Why is the NFFC even being mentioned by you and Scott and Dave on that thread? Because some of our guys here -- who are owed money by Neil and have an interest in seeing this resolved correctly -- wrote about it on our boards? What's so wrong about that? Please leave the NFFC out of that discussion folks as we are an innocent bystander of the bad economics of the AFFL.

Nag' · Post by **Nag'** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:46 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Dave, you may have deleted your post, but of course Nag copied it first and then added his own jab at the NFFC. That one is prominently on the page with Neil's latest reply. Thanks.
If I wanted to take a jab at the NFFC, I would've done it here. You misinterpreted my post. I was not talking about you or NFFC. [/QUOTE]Why is the NFFC even being mentioned by you and Scott and Dave on that thread? Because some of our guys here -- who are owed money by Neil and have an interest in seeing this resolved correctly -- wrote about it on our boards? What's so wrong about that? Please leave the NFFC out of that discussion folks as we are an innocent bystander of the bad economics of the AFFL. [/QUOTE]Again, the NFFC was not mentioned by me in any way. Please direct your accusations elsewhere. Thanks.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:46 am

By the way, yesterday I went to the AFFL boards and there is a post there where Neil addresses the prize payout for each level in 2007. A customer complained about one of the prizes and Neil pointed out that nobody else in the industry was paying out a higher percentage of revenue. The Platinum level ($1,200 entry fee) had a 156% payout and the Gold level ($500 entry fee) had a similar payout level.

I'm sorry, but you just can't run a business this way. I understand why the WCOFF paid out 106% on the Super Satellite league as they were trying to build a new contest for the future. They paid a price for future growth. I assume Neil was doing the same thing, but you just can't pay that much and still live too long. He should have eliminated those contests and made a modest living on the Silver and Bronze prizes.

Also, it's great that he has a first-rate commissioner product and hopefully someone will buy it and try to produce third-party games (white label games we call them). Honestly, the industry could use another company like that. But the margins are very small there and for a person like me I'd rather pay STATS for those duties than invest in a high-ticket item like that.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:50 am

Greg, check your email please.

Marc

Team Legacy · Post by **Team Legacy** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:04 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Dave, you may have deleted your post, but of course Nag copied it first and then added his own jab at the NFFC. That one is prominently on the page with Neil's latest reply. Thanks.
If I wanted to take a jab at the NFFC, I would've done it here. You misinterpreted my post. I was not talking about you or NFFC. [/QUOTE]Why is the NFFC even being mentioned by you and Scott and Dave on that thread? Because some of our guys here -- who are owed money by Neil and have an interest in seeing this resolved correctly -- wrote about it on our boards? What's so wrong about that? Please leave the NFFC out of that discussion folks as we are an innocent bystander of the bad economics of the AFFL. [/QUOTE]Hey Greg,

NFFC is a big boy now, you're going to have to get over press or attention you just don't like. It comes with the territory. I think ALL high stakes contests will be flipped over, turned upside down, and looked at sideways after this AFFL incident and your contest will be no different. There's just no way to "leave you out" as you put it. You're #3 or maybe even #2 in the pecking order right now of high stakes FF, so you'll have to take the heat occasionally I guess. To be honest, I think it's good for you though, everyone will say you PAY, that's good PR.

As for Dave's direct question to me, I answered it honestly and from my perspective. Is it untrue or does it bother you that I even responded?

Team Legacy · Post by **Team Legacy** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:07 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
anyone else wondering if the posts regarding this situation (made on the affl MB) will ever be seen again? would you be surprised if they "disappeared" due to a "computer glitch".They're already gone -- yesterday I found a backdoor to their message boards, and all the posts from 2/8/08 (when they officially announced the "delay") to present were deleted. Also removed were any posts prior to that announcement concerning payment problems.

This certainly doesn't pass the smell test. [/QUOTE]having a number of attorneys (including Federal) in my family and my fascination with "Law and Order" has me thinking that posts made by Neil MAY be able to be used against him if this ever sees a courtroom. it's like talking to the cops without asking for your lawyer.

that MAY be the real reason for the board being disabled. [/QUOTE]Thank god for web archives.

****://www.archive.org/web/web.php

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:41 am

Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Dave, you may have deleted your post, but of course Nag copied it first and then added his own jab at the NFFC. That one is prominently on the page with Neil's latest reply. Thanks.
If I wanted to take a jab at the NFFC, I would've done it here. You misinterpreted my post. I was not talking about you or NFFC. [/QUOTE]Why is the NFFC even being mentioned by you and Scott and Dave on that thread? Because some of our guys here -- who are owed money by Neil and have an interest in seeing this resolved correctly -- wrote about it on our boards? What's so wrong about that? Please leave the NFFC out of that discussion folks as we are an innocent bystander of the bad economics of the AFFL. [/QUOTE]Hey Greg,

NFFC is a big boy now, you're going to have to get over press or attention you just don't like. It comes with the territory. I think ALL high stakes contests will be flipped over, turned upside down, and looked at sideways after this AFFL incident and your contest will be no different. There's just no way to "leave you out" as you put it. You're #3 or maybe even #2 in the pecking order right now of high stakes FF, so you'll have to take the heat occasionally I guess. To be honest, I think it's good for you though, everyone will say you PAY, that's good PR.

As for Dave's direct question to me, I answered it honestly and from my perspective. Is it untrue or does it bother you that I even responded? [/QUOTE]I don't care if you respond to that post and give your opinions, but if you're going to include the NFFC in the debate at least be accurate. You mention that the NFFC is piling on in this matter. In what way? Because we're allowing an open forum to talk about this? Where's the piling on.

I'm not too pleased that Dave's now-deleted post keeps getting copied for all to see. Dave thinks we are taking shots at Neil and he said so point-blank. If he thinks I was making fun of someone for misspelling "patients" he's wrong. I simply asked Billy if he wrote it that way on our boards or if Neil actually did make that typo. And since Neil did make that typo, you have to admit that misspelling patience with patients when he owes folks a lot of money is an incredible mistake. It's not a potshot, I simply asked if Billy wrote it that way or Neil did.

I'm a big boy. Feel free to take shots at my game or my payout problems or my mistakes all you want. All I know is I paid my prizes for 2007 already and we're taking signups for 2008 now. I don't need to be included in that discussion about late payments. I just want Neil to pay everyone and move on.

Team Legacy · Post by **Team Legacy** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:14 am

Semantics. I'm a fan of the NFFC, but I have to tell ya, since I'm directly involved, I'm watching the AFFL situation very closely and the eventual outcome will likely heavily influence my future participation in high stakes.