gekko...
the draft position chosen by the 1st owner picked in the derby style might very well be the 11th favorite position that the 12 chosen owner would have wanted....
so he DOES NOT "get what is left in the trash bin" because everyone will have different lists and position preferences... you keep ignoring the FACT that the last picked owner will likely get at WORST his 6th-10th favorite position to draft from.
you are also forgetting how overrated this topic even is. there is a VERY SMALL benefit to being in one part of the draft or the other. as people win these leagues from all kinds of draft positions.. we are doing this to help owners FEEL BETTER about the PERCEPTION that there are huge advantages (which history proves there are not) to certain parts of a draft... this year the tomlinson owners who picked first and likely got good value coming back are doing well... i remember last year everyone took holmes and got burried...
i find it rather easy to argue the scenario being fair... and at least MUCH more fair then random slotting.
Would You Be In Favor Of Ranking Your Draft Spots?
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Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Would You Be In Favor Of Ranking Your Draft Spots?
Originally posted by renman:
gekko...
the draft position chosen by the 1st owner picked in the derby style might very well be the 11th favorite position that the 12 chosen owner would have wanted....
so he DOES NOT "get what is left in the trash bin" because everyone will have different lists and position preferences... you keep ignoring the FACT that the last picked owner will likely get at WORST his 6th-10th favorite position to draft from.
you are also forgetting how overrated this topic even is. there is a VERY SMALL benefit to being in one part of the draft or the other. as people win these leagues from all kinds of draft positions.. we are doing this to help owners FEEL BETTER about the PERCEPTION that there are huge advantages (which history proves there are not) to certain parts of a draft... this year the tomlinson owners who picked first and likely got good value coming back are doing well... i remember last year everyone took holmes and got burried...
i find it rather easy to argue the scenario being fair... and at least MUCH more fair then random slotting. your points are rubbish.
entering tonights game the draft slots from the top 14 teams are:
1
1
1
10
9
1
9
1
4
8
1
1
11
2
50% of them are the #1 seed!!!! ya, "there is a VERY SMALL benefit to being in one part of the draft or the other." very small...bbbhahahaha!!!
if you can't figure out the 14th owner selected in the Kentucky Dufus method has no say in the draft slot they get, then you are a lost cause. Next!
[ October 17, 2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
gekko...
the draft position chosen by the 1st owner picked in the derby style might very well be the 11th favorite position that the 12 chosen owner would have wanted....
so he DOES NOT "get what is left in the trash bin" because everyone will have different lists and position preferences... you keep ignoring the FACT that the last picked owner will likely get at WORST his 6th-10th favorite position to draft from.
you are also forgetting how overrated this topic even is. there is a VERY SMALL benefit to being in one part of the draft or the other. as people win these leagues from all kinds of draft positions.. we are doing this to help owners FEEL BETTER about the PERCEPTION that there are huge advantages (which history proves there are not) to certain parts of a draft... this year the tomlinson owners who picked first and likely got good value coming back are doing well... i remember last year everyone took holmes and got burried...
i find it rather easy to argue the scenario being fair... and at least MUCH more fair then random slotting. your points are rubbish.
entering tonights game the draft slots from the top 14 teams are:
1
1
1
10
9
1
9
1
4
8
1
1
11
2
50% of them are the #1 seed!!!! ya, "there is a VERY SMALL benefit to being in one part of the draft or the other." very small...bbbhahahaha!!!
if you can't figure out the 14th owner selected in the Kentucky Dufus method has no say in the draft slot they get, then you are a lost cause. Next!
[ October 17, 2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
Would You Be In Favor Of Ranking Your Draft Spots?
gekko...
why not give me the stats of LAST YEARS #1 slotted drafters? and that was with holmes getting off to a great start and many handcuffing the stud backup... do you want me to go back in time and list for you the years the owners drafting #1 got buried with their entire season being tied to that first pick? it just so happens that THIS YEARS tomlinson pick is having a season for the ages... that does not happen EVERY YEAR.
plus... the idea of allowing owners some control over "where" they pick from is not about "having a say" about someone else's position. it is about having say about YOUR POSITION. and the guy who gets picked 14th will not get his 14th favorite position.
that is the point...
now i have seen you here in the past seem to feed off message board hostility. i have seen you now several times type something somewhat immature toward me for no reason. we are here talking about ways to make this great event better. you typing "NEXT" at the end of your post is what i would expect from kids in a teenager filled chat room looking to "diss" each other for the cyber self esteem boost...
i would expect better from you...
[ October 17, 2005, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: renman ]
why not give me the stats of LAST YEARS #1 slotted drafters? and that was with holmes getting off to a great start and many handcuffing the stud backup... do you want me to go back in time and list for you the years the owners drafting #1 got buried with their entire season being tied to that first pick? it just so happens that THIS YEARS tomlinson pick is having a season for the ages... that does not happen EVERY YEAR.
plus... the idea of allowing owners some control over "where" they pick from is not about "having a say" about someone else's position. it is about having say about YOUR POSITION. and the guy who gets picked 14th will not get his 14th favorite position.
that is the point...
now i have seen you here in the past seem to feed off message board hostility. i have seen you now several times type something somewhat immature toward me for no reason. we are here talking about ways to make this great event better. you typing "NEXT" at the end of your post is what i would expect from kids in a teenager filled chat room looking to "diss" each other for the cyber self esteem boost...
i would expect better from you...
[ October 17, 2005, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: renman ]
-
Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Would You Be In Favor Of Ranking Your Draft Spots?
Originally posted by renman:
gekko...
why not give me the stats of LAST YEARS #1 slotted drafters? and that was with holmes getting off to a great start and many handcuffing the stud backup... do you want me to go back in time and list for you the years the owners drafting #1 got buried with their entire season being tied to that first pick? it just so happens that THIS YEARS tomlinson pick is having a season for the ages... that does not happen EVERY YEAR.
plus... the idea of allowing owners some control over "where" they pick from is not about "having a say" about someone else's position. it is about having say about YOUR POSITION. and the guy who gets picked 14th will not get his 14th favorite position.
that is the point...
now i have seen you here in the past seem to feed off message board hostility. i have seen you now several times type something somewhat immature toward me for no reason. we are here talking about ways to make this great event better. you typing "NEXT" at the end of your post is what i would expect from a kid in a teenager filled chat room looking to "diss" each other for the cyber self esteem boost...
i would expect better from you... go ahead and get your data. the data from last year was surprising close. and that was with holmes drafted #1 or #2 in most every draft. so it took a holmes injury for the draft slots to even come close to evening out!!! wow!! i'd say that supports my claim, not yours.
can you offer proof for what YOU said?
Originally posted by renman:
and many handcuffing the stud backup
my guess is that maybe 1 owner drafted holmes, blaylock and johnson. it's probably ZERO, but i'll let you hang yourself.
as for me typing like a kid, i take that as a compliment. most say i type at a 2nd grade level. thanks.
[ October 17, 2005, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
gekko...
why not give me the stats of LAST YEARS #1 slotted drafters? and that was with holmes getting off to a great start and many handcuffing the stud backup... do you want me to go back in time and list for you the years the owners drafting #1 got buried with their entire season being tied to that first pick? it just so happens that THIS YEARS tomlinson pick is having a season for the ages... that does not happen EVERY YEAR.
plus... the idea of allowing owners some control over "where" they pick from is not about "having a say" about someone else's position. it is about having say about YOUR POSITION. and the guy who gets picked 14th will not get his 14th favorite position.
that is the point...
now i have seen you here in the past seem to feed off message board hostility. i have seen you now several times type something somewhat immature toward me for no reason. we are here talking about ways to make this great event better. you typing "NEXT" at the end of your post is what i would expect from a kid in a teenager filled chat room looking to "diss" each other for the cyber self esteem boost...
i would expect better from you... go ahead and get your data. the data from last year was surprising close. and that was with holmes drafted #1 or #2 in most every draft. so it took a holmes injury for the draft slots to even come close to evening out!!! wow!! i'd say that supports my claim, not yours.
can you offer proof for what YOU said?
Originally posted by renman:
and many handcuffing the stud backup
my guess is that maybe 1 owner drafted holmes, blaylock and johnson. it's probably ZERO, but i'll let you hang yourself.
as for me typing like a kid, i take that as a compliment. most say i type at a 2nd grade level. thanks.
[ October 17, 2005, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
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Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Would You Be In Favor Of Ranking Your Draft Spots?
please just answer this question. it will tell me if you are a lost cause...
if you were the 14th owner, would this seem unfair to you...
THE 1ST OWNER RECEIVED THEIR MOST BESTEST, MOST FAVORITE, AND MOST COMFORTABLE DRAFT SLOT.
I, THE 14TH OWNER, JUST RECEIVED THE ONLY DRAFT SLOT LEFTOVER (AFTER EVERYONE GOT TO PICK THEIR FAVORITES). AND BY THE WAY, THAT SLOT WAS MY 14TH PREFERENCE.
thanks!
if you were the 14th owner, would this seem unfair to you...
THE 1ST OWNER RECEIVED THEIR MOST BESTEST, MOST FAVORITE, AND MOST COMFORTABLE DRAFT SLOT.
I, THE 14TH OWNER, JUST RECEIVED THE ONLY DRAFT SLOT LEFTOVER (AFTER EVERYONE GOT TO PICK THEIR FAVORITES). AND BY THE WAY, THAT SLOT WAS MY 14TH PREFERENCE.
thanks!
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
-
ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
Would You Be In Favor Of Ranking Your Draft Spots?
Why all the fuss over draft picks when all the injuries the last two weeks have more impact. Thanks.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
Would You Be In Favor Of Ranking Your Draft Spots?
UFS...
you are right... draft position is HUGELY less important to success and failure in fantasy football to good drafting, good team management, and good fortune/luck...
BUT...
in a higher stakes event owners do like the idea of having some control over where they draft... if even simply for peace of mind... and it can be a small added fun part of the pre draft period...
you are right... draft position is HUGELY less important to success and failure in fantasy football to good drafting, good team management, and good fortune/luck...
BUT...
in a higher stakes event owners do like the idea of having some control over where they draft... if even simply for peace of mind... and it can be a small added fun part of the pre draft period...
Would You Be In Favor Of Ranking Your Draft Spots?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
please just answer this question. it will tell me if you are a lost cause...
if you were the 14th owner, would this seem unfair to you...
THE 1ST OWNER RECEIVED THEIR MOST BESTEST, MOST FAVORITE, AND MOST COMFORTABLE DRAFT SLOT.
I, THE 14TH OWNER, JUST RECEIVED THE ONLY DRAFT SLOT LEFTOVER (AFTER EVERYONE GOT TO PICK THEIR FAVORITES). AND BY THE WAY, THAT SLOT WAS MY 14TH PREFERENCE.
thanks! you asked a legit question and i will answer it...
as the 14th owner i would/could care less... why? because i am a logical thinking adult who knows the following facts...
1- there is an element of chance regarding this derby style system that allows me a hugely better chance of ending up in the area of the draft board i want to be at. i can accept this, and prefer it over it being totally random.
2- I also, (as a logical thinking adult with many years of fantasy football under my belt) know that you can win a fantasy football league from anywhere on the draft board and the best spot to be on that board varies from year to year.
3- the draft spot left for me when my turn comes is likely to be one of the average spots i was hoping for due to the fact everyone's preferred list of draft positions would vary. what would be my LEAST favorite spot to draft from would likely be someone else's favorite.
no one educated reading my posts or responses to you would think i am a lost cause. we love fantasy football, we love the NFFC event, we are here brainstorming ways to improve something that is already very fulfilling. that is a just, not "lost" cause...
please just answer this question. it will tell me if you are a lost cause...
if you were the 14th owner, would this seem unfair to you...
THE 1ST OWNER RECEIVED THEIR MOST BESTEST, MOST FAVORITE, AND MOST COMFORTABLE DRAFT SLOT.
I, THE 14TH OWNER, JUST RECEIVED THE ONLY DRAFT SLOT LEFTOVER (AFTER EVERYONE GOT TO PICK THEIR FAVORITES). AND BY THE WAY, THAT SLOT WAS MY 14TH PREFERENCE.
thanks! you asked a legit question and i will answer it...
as the 14th owner i would/could care less... why? because i am a logical thinking adult who knows the following facts...
1- there is an element of chance regarding this derby style system that allows me a hugely better chance of ending up in the area of the draft board i want to be at. i can accept this, and prefer it over it being totally random.
2- I also, (as a logical thinking adult with many years of fantasy football under my belt) know that you can win a fantasy football league from anywhere on the draft board and the best spot to be on that board varies from year to year.
3- the draft spot left for me when my turn comes is likely to be one of the average spots i was hoping for due to the fact everyone's preferred list of draft positions would vary. what would be my LEAST favorite spot to draft from would likely be someone else's favorite.
no one educated reading my posts or responses to you would think i am a lost cause. we love fantasy football, we love the NFFC event, we are here brainstorming ways to improve something that is already very fulfilling. that is a just, not "lost" cause...
Would You Be In Favor Of Ranking Your Draft Spots?
Originally posted by renman:
1- there is an element of chance regarding this derby style system that allows me a hugely better chance of ending up in the area of the draft board i want to be at. i can accept this, and prefer it over it being totally random.
2- I also, (as a logical thinking adult with many years of fantasy football under my belt) know that you can win a fantasy football league from anywhere on the draft board and the best spot to be on that board varies from year to year.
3- the draft spot left for me when my turn comes is likely to be one of the average spots i was hoping for due to the fact everyone's preferred list of draft positions would vary. what would be my LEAST favorite spot to draft from would likely be someone else's favorite.
I agree with this completely. While GG has a "technical" point about fairness regarding the Derby method, I still prefer it to random draw for the reasons stated above by renman. Blind bidding is obviously superior as it also addresses the fairness issue.
1- there is an element of chance regarding this derby style system that allows me a hugely better chance of ending up in the area of the draft board i want to be at. i can accept this, and prefer it over it being totally random.
2- I also, (as a logical thinking adult with many years of fantasy football under my belt) know that you can win a fantasy football league from anywhere on the draft board and the best spot to be on that board varies from year to year.
3- the draft spot left for me when my turn comes is likely to be one of the average spots i was hoping for due to the fact everyone's preferred list of draft positions would vary. what would be my LEAST favorite spot to draft from would likely be someone else's favorite.
I agree with this completely. While GG has a "technical" point about fairness regarding the Derby method, I still prefer it to random draw for the reasons stated above by renman. Blind bidding is obviously superior as it also addresses the fairness issue.
Would You Be In Favor Of Ranking Your Draft Spots?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
where are all the ACTUAL ANSWERS to the question i posed? i saw BILLYWAZ say the derby system is a "3" on a scale of 1-10... and i saw Z-MAN applaud his post. i am still waiting to hear the NEGATIVES and DOWNSIDE of the derby system. if SOME owners get a say in their draft slots, and SOME do not, that seems VERY unfair to me. please, someone try to argue that it's fair.
derby method is WORSE than totally random draft selection
thanks. [/QUOTE]OK ... I will!
... This is why your logic is faulty.
... Deciding who randomly gets to pick their draft spot first ... is really no different than randomly determining who gets to pick the first player. Your argument against derby style draft slots seems to hinge on the fact that the first draft pick selection has an unfair advantage over the last ... yet ... the same argument could be made for the person who drafts the first player.
Based on you view of fairness ... it would be consistent to have random player assignments as well (not use the serpentine) ... because you wouldn't want to randomly give someone an unfair advantage to pick the first player.
Argument for the Derby style vs. the random pick. Based on my knowledge of any given years draft ... my understanding of the advantages and disadvantages of one draft spot over another ... could give me an advantage over another owner who isn't as knowledgeable as me (this assumes I don't shoot myself in the foot with a bad pick). The more control I am allowed to have over my draft pick ... the better off I will be. If everyone is taking the highest position available (1 takes 1 , 2 takes 2, 3 takes 3, 4 takes 4) its no different than random assignment. But if I am fifth pick ... it gives me more control to pick my own spot ... maybe 8th instead of 5th.
This is your argument for blind bidding (give me more control over my draft spot) ... but for some reason you have taken the "ALL or NOTHING" approach. How can you argue that some control over your draft position is good ... but a little is a bad thing?
I am for blind bidding ... although it would be more fun to auction bid draft positions the day of the draft (just kidding Greg!).
Also ... for those who argue all draft positions have an equal chance of being the best spot ... you should be the strongest advocates of ranking your draft spots with some version of blind bidding ... you always get an equally good draft spot ... and you get more money in free agency than everyone else! What an advantage!
GG ... you wanted a logical argument ... here it is! IMHO
UYT
quote:Originally posted by renman:
where are all the ACTUAL ANSWERS to the question i posed? i saw BILLYWAZ say the derby system is a "3" on a scale of 1-10... and i saw Z-MAN applaud his post. i am still waiting to hear the NEGATIVES and DOWNSIDE of the derby system. if SOME owners get a say in their draft slots, and SOME do not, that seems VERY unfair to me. please, someone try to argue that it's fair.
derby method is WORSE than totally random draft selection
thanks. [/QUOTE]OK ... I will!
... This is why your logic is faulty.
... Deciding who randomly gets to pick their draft spot first ... is really no different than randomly determining who gets to pick the first player. Your argument against derby style draft slots seems to hinge on the fact that the first draft pick selection has an unfair advantage over the last ... yet ... the same argument could be made for the person who drafts the first player.
Based on you view of fairness ... it would be consistent to have random player assignments as well (not use the serpentine) ... because you wouldn't want to randomly give someone an unfair advantage to pick the first player.
Argument for the Derby style vs. the random pick. Based on my knowledge of any given years draft ... my understanding of the advantages and disadvantages of one draft spot over another ... could give me an advantage over another owner who isn't as knowledgeable as me (this assumes I don't shoot myself in the foot with a bad pick). The more control I am allowed to have over my draft pick ... the better off I will be. If everyone is taking the highest position available (1 takes 1 , 2 takes 2, 3 takes 3, 4 takes 4) its no different than random assignment. But if I am fifth pick ... it gives me more control to pick my own spot ... maybe 8th instead of 5th.
This is your argument for blind bidding (give me more control over my draft spot) ... but for some reason you have taken the "ALL or NOTHING" approach. How can you argue that some control over your draft position is good ... but a little is a bad thing?
I am for blind bidding ... although it would be more fun to auction bid draft positions the day of the draft (just kidding Greg!).
Also ... for those who argue all draft positions have an equal chance of being the best spot ... you should be the strongest advocates of ranking your draft spots with some version of blind bidding ... you always get an equally good draft spot ... and you get more money in free agency than everyone else! What an advantage!
GG ... you wanted a logical argument ... here it is! IMHO
UYT
Hakuna Matata!