Greg...honestly...you're missing the boat on the "events fees" part.
If you don't have an event...it makes it more difficult to create great fantasy football bonds and create a memorable experience..
I know having the draft in Vegas and not going toe-to-toe with WCOFF the same weekend is a smart business decision. (NFFC goes the week prior)
...and to say drafting after games are played is the reason is bunk. Every owner knows the deal...so there is no advantage...and having the draft the day before the season REALLY kicks off allows players to see any last minute injuries and depth charts movement.
I just feel that flying to Vegas...getting to a draft and potentially completing the trip in 8 hours is non-impact on the "fun meter". You turn around and what are your NFL choices to bet on or watch in Vegas??? The very worst week of the pre-season when almost no starters are playing. You get no instant gratification of seeing the guys you drafted suit up and play the very next morning for real...and counting for your team...aprtying with league rivals...celebrating your team kicking butt with most of the other WCOFF players in town as well!!!
It's just something you should consider adding in the future.
If there is an event...it sure won't be free...will it?
You rule...but I had to jump in.
~Lance
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
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sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
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Hard heads
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
I was just looking at your site! Love that you guys have my slack ass Lee Evans ranked 8th this week. I so didn't want to take him, but had to have a WR and bye weeks almost forced us to grab him. Who knows there weak schedule will hopefully allow him to help us down the strecth?
It's looking like you won't be needing that $100 with that fricking lead and squad you have, but my pleasure! I do drink Corona as well, but prefer an amber ale. I read the blog after your big week this week and love the fact that you wnet with your gut and avoided taking fliers when real people you wanted were their, ie McNabb over the WR and Da Bears over another WR. Good thing or Colston may not have been drafted. I definitely have notieced the auction sats and unltimate sats I believe was there, getting pumped for '07 already!
It's looking like you won't be needing that $100 with that fricking lead and squad you have, but my pleasure! I do drink Corona as well, but prefer an amber ale. I read the blog after your big week this week and love the fact that you wnet with your gut and avoided taking fliers when real people you wanted were their, ie McNabb over the WR and Da Bears over another WR. Good thing or Colston may not have been drafted. I definitely have notieced the auction sats and unltimate sats I believe was there, getting pumped for '07 already!
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Originally posted by Hard heads:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hard heads:
Well count me in for 2007 Greg!
I was one of the minority on WCOFF I guess that saw the wrong in how things were decided and handled, but god forbid Lenny ever own up to such a gross mistake in judgement! I will register and be on the mailing list to hopefully get a spot next year. It appears at least one difference is the way things are run here with a little bit of class and integrity. Kudos to you and look forward to joining on.
Craig Williams
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yo, Hard Heads! Jules, here...your League 53-mate from last year in the WCOFF (congrats again on the league championship!)
WELCOME TO THE NFFC!!
As you can already tell it is a vastly different climate.
The handling of yesterday's FA disaster by the WCOFF is completely UNACCEPTABLE in my book. I can't believe that opinion would put us in the minority! Anyway, you'll have a blast playing in the NFFC, see ya in Vegas!
Hey Jules! I saw you and Perry bantering in your league page and almost said Hi, but didn't want to intrude. I also almost popped off when Greg said get ready it's 14 team leagues and more of a challenge that I had spanked your current overall leader just last season, but didn't want to rehash old wounds. LOL I can definitely tell the difference in attitude already am looking forward to the chance at joining on! I am not playing recruit, but a couple of my league mates from this year have already visited the site and are very impressed. How about a referral fee Greg?
Anyway, the silence over on the WCOFF boards is deafening! Not even long time vets like Cheif Brody, Turtle, Captain Hook have come to defend Lenny in this one. How are you fairing this year in WCOFF? My team started off hot 5-1 we lost Hasselbeck and have lost 2 in a row and are trwading water. Hope we can reel off some points and make the LCG and win some money on the way out. Talk to ya soon! HH, crazy that The Captain and I got in the same league again, but different event!
You crushed me last year (and w/o the services of your #1 WR if I remember correctly...do you have T.O. this year?)...I was just happy to get 3rd place money!
This year I am 3-5, but only 70 points from high point leader...3 weeks to go and I can make up ground because he has McNabb & Steve Smith out this week. I have left about 40 points on the bench...that leaves such a bad taste in my mouth!!
I can't believe the reply Lenny gave one of your posts, the "Sorry, we did the best we knew how under the circunstances. ... Time to move on." TIME TO MOVE ON? C'mon, at least give your paying customers a full day to vent and process the events that happened. I do a weekly podcast and you can bet we'll being doing a segment on this!
Good luck in getting to the LCG, Hasselbeck has a sweet schedule when he gets back and would get GB in the LCG
I believe.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hard heads:
Well count me in for 2007 Greg!
I was one of the minority on WCOFF I guess that saw the wrong in how things were decided and handled, but god forbid Lenny ever own up to such a gross mistake in judgement! I will register and be on the mailing list to hopefully get a spot next year. It appears at least one difference is the way things are run here with a little bit of class and integrity. Kudos to you and look forward to joining on.
Craig Williams
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yo, Hard Heads! Jules, here...your League 53-mate from last year in the WCOFF (congrats again on the league championship!)
WELCOME TO THE NFFC!!
As you can already tell it is a vastly different climate.
The handling of yesterday's FA disaster by the WCOFF is completely UNACCEPTABLE in my book. I can't believe that opinion would put us in the minority! Anyway, you'll have a blast playing in the NFFC, see ya in Vegas!
Hey Jules! I saw you and Perry bantering in your league page and almost said Hi, but didn't want to intrude. I also almost popped off when Greg said get ready it's 14 team leagues and more of a challenge that I had spanked your current overall leader just last season, but didn't want to rehash old wounds. LOL I can definitely tell the difference in attitude already am looking forward to the chance at joining on! I am not playing recruit, but a couple of my league mates from this year have already visited the site and are very impressed. How about a referral fee Greg?
Anyway, the silence over on the WCOFF boards is deafening! Not even long time vets like Cheif Brody, Turtle, Captain Hook have come to defend Lenny in this one. How are you fairing this year in WCOFF? My team started off hot 5-1 we lost Hasselbeck and have lost 2 in a row and are trwading water. Hope we can reel off some points and make the LCG and win some money on the way out. Talk to ya soon! HH, crazy that The Captain and I got in the same league again, but different event!
You crushed me last year (and w/o the services of your #1 WR if I remember correctly...do you have T.O. this year?)...I was just happy to get 3rd place money!
This year I am 3-5, but only 70 points from high point leader...3 weeks to go and I can make up ground because he has McNabb & Steve Smith out this week. I have left about 40 points on the bench...that leaves such a bad taste in my mouth!!
I can't believe the reply Lenny gave one of your posts, the "Sorry, we did the best we knew how under the circunstances. ... Time to move on." TIME TO MOVE ON? C'mon, at least give your paying customers a full day to vent and process the events that happened. I do a weekly podcast and you can bet we'll being doing a segment on this!
Good luck in getting to the LCG, Hasselbeck has a sweet schedule when he gets back and would get GB in the LCG
I believe.
@RedRyder
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Originally posted by Nag':
I have been with WCOFF for 5+ years since from Day 1. I have never publically criticised WCOFF or Lenny and have always given them the benefit of the doubt. I have alwasy trusted the organization to do what is right and what is in the best interest of it's participants. Until yesterday.
I'm also NOT a conspiracy theorist and I like to go off facts and evidence in front of me. But in this case, I believe there was more to the decision than meets the eye. I'm not a lawyer, I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night and I don't have proof of what I am about to say, but I 100% believe this is what happened.
After the Xperts system went crazy and processed bids at 8:00am instead of pm, I don't think it took anyone at the WCOFF office too long to realize how much sh!t they were in. I'm sure they became fully aware that regardless of how the situation was resolved, it was going to case major complains from the customer and that the gravity of this situation could lead to legal exposure. Thus, in my opinion, on the advice of the attoreys, the decision was made to leave the bids as they are and run the 8:00pm bids as usual. Why? Simple - the disclaimer in the WCOFF rules which protects the organization in case of internet or website malfinction, technical problems, etc, etc. In my opinion, and likely in the opinion of the attorneys, the early bidding run clearly fell under the protection of this article in the rules. The legal exposure was limited. Now, if they were to start rolling back the bids, resetting the players and moving the bidding deadline back to Saturday, etc, THIS would in turn put the responsibility and the negligence on the organization. Whatever they did and whomever would then be negatively impacted by THEIR decisions could show that it was the WCOFF decision making was a breach of contract and the responsibility lay with them. Negligence and therefore - responsibility - would then transfer from website's technical malfunction, which was under the protection of the disclaimer TO the WCOFF organization itself. This would be legal exposure which I believe that no attorney would advise to their client.
I basically kept silent throughout most of the craziness on the WCOFF boards and I did not see a reason to post these suspicions there today but I needed to get this off my chest so thanks for listening. I'm not going to trash Lenny or the WCOFF. I believe they made a business decision. I also believe it was a wrong decision in terms of their customers. That's it - case closed, as far as I am concerned. Very interesting take. Still the wrong decision.
They had all the bid info.
There are still huge issues with the guys that input moves on Friday and could not get the players they wanted because they were gone.
That's an unfair playing field. Moving the deadline back would have been fair to all.
And they didn't have to contact everyone. They had the info to re-enter.
I have been with WCOFF for 5+ years since from Day 1. I have never publically criticised WCOFF or Lenny and have always given them the benefit of the doubt. I have alwasy trusted the organization to do what is right and what is in the best interest of it's participants. Until yesterday.
I'm also NOT a conspiracy theorist and I like to go off facts and evidence in front of me. But in this case, I believe there was more to the decision than meets the eye. I'm not a lawyer, I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night and I don't have proof of what I am about to say, but I 100% believe this is what happened.
After the Xperts system went crazy and processed bids at 8:00am instead of pm, I don't think it took anyone at the WCOFF office too long to realize how much sh!t they were in. I'm sure they became fully aware that regardless of how the situation was resolved, it was going to case major complains from the customer and that the gravity of this situation could lead to legal exposure. Thus, in my opinion, on the advice of the attoreys, the decision was made to leave the bids as they are and run the 8:00pm bids as usual. Why? Simple - the disclaimer in the WCOFF rules which protects the organization in case of internet or website malfinction, technical problems, etc, etc. In my opinion, and likely in the opinion of the attorneys, the early bidding run clearly fell under the protection of this article in the rules. The legal exposure was limited. Now, if they were to start rolling back the bids, resetting the players and moving the bidding deadline back to Saturday, etc, THIS would in turn put the responsibility and the negligence on the organization. Whatever they did and whomever would then be negatively impacted by THEIR decisions could show that it was the WCOFF decision making was a breach of contract and the responsibility lay with them. Negligence and therefore - responsibility - would then transfer from website's technical malfunction, which was under the protection of the disclaimer TO the WCOFF organization itself. This would be legal exposure which I believe that no attorney would advise to their client.
I basically kept silent throughout most of the craziness on the WCOFF boards and I did not see a reason to post these suspicions there today but I needed to get this off my chest so thanks for listening. I'm not going to trash Lenny or the WCOFF. I believe they made a business decision. I also believe it was a wrong decision in terms of their customers. That's it - case closed, as far as I am concerned. Very interesting take. Still the wrong decision.
They had all the bid info.
There are still huge issues with the guys that input moves on Friday and could not get the players they wanted because they were gone.
That's an unfair playing field. Moving the deadline back would have been fair to all.
And they didn't have to contact everyone. They had the info to re-enter.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
-
Hard heads
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
No TO this year Baby! LOL We drafted 12th and had no chance at him really. We got CJ, ocho cinqo, mohawk bust, whatever you call him along with Parker, Gore and Gates and Deuce and Shockey, but Evans, Braylon and Moulds as are 2 and 3 WR options they have just killed us. We were part of the foolish crew that though AZ would keep Rackers value high, but between him missing anything over 45 yards and there ineptness he was a bust as well. We do have a shot and currently are tied for 2nd, but 4th in points, so it will be tough. We are down like 80 points from 2nd since the guy at 7-1 is also like 150 points ahead of 2nd.
Last year was fun and losing TO made it tough, but Chambers really made up for BO! Hope you can make up the ground and get in the LCG cause anything can happen from their!
Yeah I have done alot of holding back after Lenny's one reply to all my posts(deleted)figuring he would ignore or block me. Sucks to have shelled out all that money to be treated this way along with all the others that got the shaft as well.
So which podcast do you do? I was glcncing at some of them while my son sleeps. Looks like a solid site.
Last year was fun and losing TO made it tough, but Chambers really made up for BO! Hope you can make up the ground and get in the LCG cause anything can happen from their!
Yeah I have done alot of holding back after Lenny's one reply to all my posts(deleted)figuring he would ignore or block me. Sucks to have shelled out all that money to be treated this way along with all the others that got the shaft as well.
So which podcast do you do? I was glcncing at some of them while my son sleeps. Looks like a solid site.
-
sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Originally posted by UFS:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
I have been with WCOFF for 5+ years since from Day 1. I have never publicly criticised WCOFF or Lenny and have always given them the benefit of the doubt. I have always trusted the organization to do what is right and what is in the best interest of it's participants. Until yesterday.
I'm also NOT a conspiracy theorist and I like to go off facts and evidence in front of me. But in this case, I believe there was more to the decision than meets the eye. I'm not a lawyer, I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night and I don't have proof of what I am about to say, but I 100% believe this is what happened.
After the Xperts system went crazy and processed bids at 8:00am instead of pm, I don't think it took anyone at the WCOFF office too long to realize how much sh!t they were in. I'm sure they became fully aware that regardless of how the situation was resolved, it was going to case major complains from the customer and that the gravity of this situation could lead to legal exposure. Thus, in my opinion, on the advice of the attorneys, the decision was made to leave the bids as they are and run the 8:00pm bids as usual. Why? Simple - the disclaimer in the WCOFF rules which protects the organization in case of internet or website malfunction, technical problems, etc, etc. In my opinion, and likely in the opinion of the attorneys, the early bidding run clearly fell under the protection of this article in the rules. The legal exposure was limited. Now, if they were to start rolling back the bids, resetting the players and moving the bidding deadline back to Saturday, etc, THIS would in turn put the responsibility and the negligence on the organization. Whatever they did and whomever would then be negatively impacted by THEIR decisions could show that it was the WCOFF decision making was a breach of contract and the responsibility lay with them. Negligence and therefore - responsibility - would then transfer from websites technical malfunction, which was under the protection of the disclaimer TO the WCOFF organization itself. This would be legal exposure which I believe that no attorney would advise to their client.
I basically kept silent throughout most of the craziness on the WCOFF boards and I did not see a reason to post these suspicions there today but I needed to get this off my chest so thanks for listening. I'm not going to trash Lenny or the WCOFF. I believe they made a business decision. I also believe it was a wrong decision in terms of their customers. That's it - case closed, as far as I am concerned. Very interesting take. Still the wrong decision.
They had all the bid info.
There are still huge issues with the guys that input moves on Friday and could not get the players they wanted because they were gone.
That's an unfair playing field. Moving the deadline back would have been fair to all.
And they didn't have to contact everyone. They had the info to re-enter. [/QUOTE]You are WAY off.
Nag wrote damn near what I think happened.
Priority #1...keep the WCOFF alive for future years by not going out of business due to lawsuits because you did things not covered in the contract.
Priority #2...damage control as much as possible to help as many teams as possible while staying in the rules of the contract.
Priority #3...Leadership in time of turmoil.
They did the best they could on 1 and 2, but failed in 3.
They...and all other fantasy businesses will learn from this.
~Lance
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
I have been with WCOFF for 5+ years since from Day 1. I have never publicly criticised WCOFF or Lenny and have always given them the benefit of the doubt. I have always trusted the organization to do what is right and what is in the best interest of it's participants. Until yesterday.
I'm also NOT a conspiracy theorist and I like to go off facts and evidence in front of me. But in this case, I believe there was more to the decision than meets the eye. I'm not a lawyer, I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night and I don't have proof of what I am about to say, but I 100% believe this is what happened.
After the Xperts system went crazy and processed bids at 8:00am instead of pm, I don't think it took anyone at the WCOFF office too long to realize how much sh!t they were in. I'm sure they became fully aware that regardless of how the situation was resolved, it was going to case major complains from the customer and that the gravity of this situation could lead to legal exposure. Thus, in my opinion, on the advice of the attorneys, the decision was made to leave the bids as they are and run the 8:00pm bids as usual. Why? Simple - the disclaimer in the WCOFF rules which protects the organization in case of internet or website malfunction, technical problems, etc, etc. In my opinion, and likely in the opinion of the attorneys, the early bidding run clearly fell under the protection of this article in the rules. The legal exposure was limited. Now, if they were to start rolling back the bids, resetting the players and moving the bidding deadline back to Saturday, etc, THIS would in turn put the responsibility and the negligence on the organization. Whatever they did and whomever would then be negatively impacted by THEIR decisions could show that it was the WCOFF decision making was a breach of contract and the responsibility lay with them. Negligence and therefore - responsibility - would then transfer from websites technical malfunction, which was under the protection of the disclaimer TO the WCOFF organization itself. This would be legal exposure which I believe that no attorney would advise to their client.
I basically kept silent throughout most of the craziness on the WCOFF boards and I did not see a reason to post these suspicions there today but I needed to get this off my chest so thanks for listening. I'm not going to trash Lenny or the WCOFF. I believe they made a business decision. I also believe it was a wrong decision in terms of their customers. That's it - case closed, as far as I am concerned. Very interesting take. Still the wrong decision.
They had all the bid info.
There are still huge issues with the guys that input moves on Friday and could not get the players they wanted because they were gone.
That's an unfair playing field. Moving the deadline back would have been fair to all.
And they didn't have to contact everyone. They had the info to re-enter. [/QUOTE]You are WAY off.
Nag wrote damn near what I think happened.
Priority #1...keep the WCOFF alive for future years by not going out of business due to lawsuits because you did things not covered in the contract.
Priority #2...damage control as much as possible to help as many teams as possible while staying in the rules of the contract.
Priority #3...Leadership in time of turmoil.
They did the best they could on 1 and 2, but failed in 3.
They...and all other fantasy businesses will learn from this.
~Lance
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
After reading all the posts,
I think Greg, Tom, and help at Stats could have re-entered all the bids and run them at 8pm.
Also, most of us would have been able to enter them again ourselves to helpout.
Do you think GG will be asking to move the deadline to 8pm soon?
I think Greg, Tom, and help at Stats could have re-entered all the bids and run them at 8pm.
Also, most of us would have been able to enter them again ourselves to helpout.
Do you think GG will be asking to move the deadline to 8pm soon?
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Lance, respect your comments, but all they did was take the easy way out. No more, no less.
It was a technical problem they could have rectified with much less damage than those that were not able to bid.
There would have been no lawsuits that would be winnable if they made the effort to make things as normal as possible.
Now they could lose to a guy that historically has entered his picks Friday afternoon and didn't get the player he wanted. And that player turned out to cost him. JMO.
[ November 04, 2006, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]
It was a technical problem they could have rectified with much less damage than those that were not able to bid.
There would have been no lawsuits that would be winnable if they made the effort to make things as normal as possible.
Now they could lose to a guy that historically has entered his picks Friday afternoon and didn't get the player he wanted. And that player turned out to cost him. JMO.
[ November 04, 2006, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
"Moving the deadline back would have been fair to all.
And they didn't have to contact everyone. They had the info to re-enter."
Moving the deadline would have breached the contract.
The computer error is covered in the contract...manipulating things after the fact is not covered.
Allowing some owners to have the chance to re-enter bids after their opponents see their bids...and not others...(fat chance of even contacting 40% of the league in the time sensitive gap they were working in to stay under the FRI 8pm est contract rule)...is not a better solution.
~Lance
And they didn't have to contact everyone. They had the info to re-enter."
Moving the deadline would have breached the contract.
The computer error is covered in the contract...manipulating things after the fact is not covered.
Allowing some owners to have the chance to re-enter bids after their opponents see their bids...and not others...(fat chance of even contacting 40% of the league in the time sensitive gap they were working in to stay under the FRI 8pm est contract rule)...is not a better solution.
~Lance
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
WCOFF FAAB SNAFU
Originally posted by Hard heads:
I was just looking at your site! Love that you guys have my slack ass Lee Evans ranked 8th this week. I so didn't want to take him, but had to have a WR and bye weeks almost forced us to grab him. Who knows there weak schedule will hopefully allow him to help us down the strecth?
It's looking like you won't be needing that $100 with that fricking lead and squad you have, but my pleasure! I do drink Corona as well, but prefer an amber ale. I read the blog after your big week this week and love the fact that you wnet with your gut and avoided taking fliers when real people you wanted were their, ie McNabb over the WR and Da Bears over another WR. Good thing or Colston may not have been drafted. I definitely have notieced the auction sats and unltimate sats I believe was there, getting pumped for '07 already! When Greg stops buying, I'll step in with some tasty Amber Ales!
Let's hope Losman finds Evans...He needs to stop being a Fantasy Killer, I mean he gets it done against CHI, but then has 1 catch for 11 yards 2 weeks later! ? I blame Losman.
How's the weather up there? Any snow in Tahoe yet?
I was just looking at your site! Love that you guys have my slack ass Lee Evans ranked 8th this week. I so didn't want to take him, but had to have a WR and bye weeks almost forced us to grab him. Who knows there weak schedule will hopefully allow him to help us down the strecth?
It's looking like you won't be needing that $100 with that fricking lead and squad you have, but my pleasure! I do drink Corona as well, but prefer an amber ale. I read the blog after your big week this week and love the fact that you wnet with your gut and avoided taking fliers when real people you wanted were their, ie McNabb over the WR and Da Bears over another WR. Good thing or Colston may not have been drafted. I definitely have notieced the auction sats and unltimate sats I believe was there, getting pumped for '07 already! When Greg stops buying, I'll step in with some tasty Amber Ales!
Let's hope Losman finds Evans...He needs to stop being a Fantasy Killer, I mean he gets it done against CHI, but then has 1 catch for 11 yards 2 weeks later! ? I blame Losman.
How's the weather up there? Any snow in Tahoe yet?
@RedRyder