What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:38 am

Originally posted by Baker Boy:
I'm sorry is this website sponsered by the IRS now? No, but the last thing this industry needs right now is more government intervention and that's what we're inviting with some of our practices. The fantasy sports industry is very lucky in that we have carveout language in a federal bill that makes playing fantasy sports legal if you run your contest according to certain guidelines. One of them is announcing your prize pool and not basing them on number of entries. The poker industry is downright upset and jealous that fantasy sports is considered a game of skill and poker is considered gambling. We should embrace the legality of our hobby and not push its limits.

I fear that if a major contest doesn't pay its prizes and the figure is high enough to attract national attention that we will have some type of government agency look at this entire space and look at our carveout language. Nobody wants that. Nobody deserves that because of a few bad apples. And the same can be said for the rollover payments if that's proven that it's not right. Why should we jeopardize more government intervention because one or two game operators wanted to help their customers skirt taxes while hanging onto the money longer? If it's legal, we all will do that. If it's not, let's not risk what we have just so one contest gets an edge over others.

Again, someone point out the tax law that says this is the legal way to do it. The NFFC and NFBC will then follow suit and help our players. If there isn't any language that says this, then let's not mess with anything that affects the legality of fantasy sports.

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:05 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
It's a subject I want discussed next week at the FSTA Trade Conference in San Francisco. I just want all game operators doing it the legal way. Just like any bad apple not paying off prize winners in the HSFF space hurts all of us, one company not reporting earned income to the IRS can hurt all of us as well. That's why I think it makes sense for
game operators in this space to be on the same page, not accusing each other of bringing up taboo subjects or contacting our customers via PMs about their posts on the subject. That's not helping anyone.

[/QB]greg, can you also ask dustin WTF is going on?

Baker Boy · Post by **Baker Boy** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:20 am

First off the WCoFF is jeopardiizing HSFF by not paying their winners requested payouts not by rolling over winners to future games. C&D and others didn't ask to not be paid his winnings. Thats the problem at hand.

Second how are you gonna throw the stone here? Your threshold of $1400 is wrong and you have admitted that for the last 6 years you believe you have not been sending out 1099s correctly. You have a customer on your board who thinks it's a good idea to contact the IRS about this subject and what? you are nodding your head in agreement? You think because you say I honestly thought I was doing it correctly you'll get a pass?

It's ok to discuss the 1099 treatment on this board it's quite another to advocate getting the IRS involved on purpose. That's seldom a good idea.

Tax laws are written as such "Everything is taxable unless specifically stated not to be". Businesses test these boundries everyday with different money management.

[ June 09, 2011, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Baker Boy ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:52 am

Originally posted by Baker Boy:
First off the WCoFF is jeopardiizing HSFF by not paying their winners requested payouts not by rolling over winners to future games. C&D and others didn't ask to not be paid his winnings. Thats the problem at hand.

Second how are you gonna throw the stone here? Your threshold of $1400 is wrong and you have admitted that for the last 6 years you believe you have not been sending out 1099s correctly. You have a customer on your board who thinks it's a good idea to contact the IRS about this subject and what? you are nodding your head in agreement? You think because you say I honestly thought I was doing it correctly you'll get a pass?

It's ok to discuss the 1099 treatment on this board it's quite another to advocate getting the IRS involved on purpose. That's seldom a good idea.

Tax laws are written as such "Everything is taxable unless specifically stated not to be". Businesses test these boundries everyday with different money management. Correct, the WCOFF is jeopardizing this space for all of us if they don't pay their prizes. But the total money rolled over may shock you and I don't think those people yet realize what could also be lost without a contest this year. Had they just taken their cash winnings each year maybe all of them wouldn't be in this spot right now. It was a setup that allowed the game operator to keep that cash flow longer than they legally should have.

I think asking any accounting office whether this scenario is right or wrong isn't a bad thing. Again, I hope it is legal. Let's all do it then. Or let's all agree in the high-stakes space to just pay our winners in cash as fast as we can and make each season a new season. Wouldn't it be better if each game operator competed to see WHO COULD PAY THEIR WINNERS FASTEST? Let's strive for that contest and may be the best game win because then the CUSTOMERS ARE THE WINNERS.

I'll compete in that one. I'm sure all customers would love it if we pay winners right going forward.

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:53 am

I don't understand why anyone or any company would have a problem if the IRS said 1099s had to be issued for "rolled over" winnings.

I imagine the only people or companies that would complain would be if they were involved with Tax Fraud or Tax Evasion and have something to cover up.

BTW, I submitted my first governmental inquiry. The ball is rolling as they say.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:58 am

Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
It's a subject I want discussed next week at the FSTA Trade Conference in San Francisco. I just want all game operators doing it the legal way. Just like any bad apple not paying off prize winners in the HSFF space hurts all of us, one company not reporting earned income to the IRS can hurt all of us as well. That's why I think it makes sense for
game operators in this space to be on the same page, not accusing each other of bringing up taboo subjects or contacting our customers via PMs about their posts on the subject. That's not helping anyone.

greg, can you also ask dustin WTF is going on? [/QB][/QUOTE]Silence is louder than words, that's for sure. I know what is trying to happen, but I haven't heard anything in a bit. Many people have asked Dustin to say something, anything at all, even if it's bad news and I concur. There isn't a lawyer around who would advice anyone involved in a sale to stay completely quiet with your valuable customers for 45 straight days. The decision is being made somewhere else to say nothing and that's too bad. It's time for an update. The customers who built that contest deserve at least that much.

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:07 am

Originally posted by Baker Boy:
It's ok to discuss the 1099 treatment on this board it's quite another to advocate getting the IRS involved on purpose. That's seldom a good idea.Let us hope this case is an exception to your statement.

Originally posted by Baker Boy:
Tax laws are written as such "Everything is taxable unless specifically stated not to be". I'm not sure you understand the issue. I'm talking about issuing 1099's.

As far as determining what is taxable, all prize money whether it is paid via "roll over" or paid via check is reportable and taxable. At least that's what the State of Pennsylvania told me (I assume it's the same in all other states as well as federally). If people aren't paying taxes on "rolled over" money, I imagine they are at risk (at least in PA) should they and/or the company not issuing 1099s gets audited.

[ June 09, 2011, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: DoubleG ]

DoubleG · Post by **DoubleG** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:13 am

Originally posted by Baker Boy:
C&D and others didn't ask to not be paid his winnings. I agree with you here. chad (and all winners) should get every penny he is owed. It's HIS money.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:30 am

I guess you can safely say tomorrow's announcement, lack of, or unsatisfactory conclusion will FINALLY knock Weinergate off the front pages !

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:03 am

nothing will happen tomorrow. if there is any kind of annoucement it won't be made until the 15th. that is what the wcoff told the BBB: "the transition will be made by the 15th of june." so don't expect anything tomorrow. these guys like to take things done to the last minute before doing anything. they never seem to surpirse us with a early anoucement/payment/anything so why change now?