NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

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Coltsfan
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Re: NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

Post by Coltsfan » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:04 pm

-Personally I think we have a good mix right now. It's impossible to take the luck out of fantasy football and it's hard to water down the prize pool to pay more places. It really doesn't matter to me if you tinker around with the first and second place money a bit - anything is fine. Some of the suggestions here are good but I also like it the way it is.

I do think Billy's post in spot on as well. I did one NFFC online league this year and I"m 9-3 which is second in record and I'm second in points. If it ended now I would miss out on both and I'm fine with that. I'll make it up on the leagues that I win.

The only thing that I'm not crazy about is all play BUT I love the 13 week season and I don't have a better solution! :mrgreen: So all play it is.

I will say that this is probably the best year for the NFFC in terms of all of the backend operations. The software is very good, easy to use, and the waiver system is excellent. I really can't think of much to change for next year except for when we get into the WW discussion.


Wayne

chriseibl
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Re: NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

Post by chriseibl » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:20 pm

Coltsfan wrote:-Personally I think we have a good mix right now. It's impossible to take the luck out of fantasy football and it's hard to water down the prize pool to pay more places. It really doesn't matter to me if you tinker around with the first and second place money a bit - anything is fine. Some of the suggestions here are good but I also like it the way it is.

I do think Billy's post in spot on as well. I did one NFFC online league this year and I"m 9-3 which is second in record and I'm second in points. If it ended now I would miss out on both and I'm fine with that. I'll make it up on the leagues that I win.

The only thing that I'm not crazy about is all play BUT I love the 13 week season and I don't have a better solution! :mrgreen: So all play it is.

I will say that this is probably the best year for the NFFC in terms of all of the backend operations. The software is very good, easy to use, and the waiver system is excellent. I really can't think of much to change for next year except for when we get into the WW discussion.


Wayne
+1. For the most part I'm conservative with how I feel about the rules. I play here because I like it the way it is.

On top of what Wayne said, I like the limited playoff teams. The more limited, the more importance the regular season has. The NFFC's current format makes each week feel important in terms of success and still most (no, not all) teams have something to play for a couple months into the season due to the different avenues of making the playoffs between H2H and points.

JETS SB
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Re: NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

Post by JETS SB » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:44 pm

Coltsfan wrote:-it's hard to water down the prize pool to pay more places.
My proposal wasn't watering down the prize pool at all. In the 14 team classic, I believe the structure as it currently stands is not good, and in my opinion, is one of the reasons the classic has dropped off over the past few seasons. Fantasy football, if you ask most (not everyone) who play on all levels, is about the playoffs and if you finish 3rd place in points, in a 14 team league, and possibly don't make the playoffs, that is a league you will likely not join next year, at a $1,500 premium.

I think, if we don't change the Classic, to be more attractive to a larger clientele, eventually the 14 team concept will soon be extinct and that would be a shame as it is one of the niches that makes the NFFC different. If you want to have marketing appeal, at this level, for a larger audience, making it possible for more teams to win, is the way to do it. Sure, you will keep a core of die hards that will still join, if you don't change anything, but eventually it won't be enough to keep it going at its current level. Too many teams get eliminated too quickly. A change in the playoff structure is needed in the Classic. I cannot believe that enhancing your chances at winning a large prize is a deterrent. I am not asking to pay more places. I am asking to give more teams a chance. No one should be sitting in 3rd place in points, in week 11 (which was the case in our Classic) and realize there is little to no possibility of making the playoffs in any capacity.

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Re: NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

Post by Coltsfan » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:19 pm

Jets,

I wasn't necessarily referring to your proposal - it was more of a random comment from several of the earlier posts.

Personally I believe the classic is tougher to get momentum as a contest because it's tougher to win. If you play a few years and aren't competitive then you probably aren't coming back. And I just think that the shorter the season and having fewer teams in the leagues you will have more people who are more likely to compete. I could be wrong but that's just my impression. I think that Greg and Tom are correct in making the 12 team event the focal point while still offering a 14 team event for the die hards.



Wayne

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Re: NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

Post by JETS SB » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:38 pm

Coltsfan wrote:Jets,

I wasn't necessarily referring to your proposal - it was more of a random comment from several of the earlier posts.

Personally I believe the classic is tougher to get momentum as a contest because it's tougher to win. If you play a few years and aren't competitive then you probably aren't coming back. And I just think that the shorter the season and having fewer teams in the leagues you will have more people who are more likely to compete. I could be wrong but that's just my impression. I think that Greg and Tom are correct in making the 12 team event the focal point while still offering a 14 team event for the die hards.



Wayne
Agreed.. I do believe Greg and Tom are doing the right thing in making the 12 team event the focal point, so keep the 12 team as is then, because it is doing well. The classic has been falling off and I think one way to improve the 14 team league is to make it a little easier to have a "chance" to win a top prize. The uniqueness of the 14 teams structure is something I personally would like to have around for many more years. I believe some changes are needed and I believe I have offered up some pretty good reasoning. With that said, I don't expect any changes to be made, but just letting my (small) voice be heard. Greg has made his stance known and I am sure he wants me (and Sandman) to be quiet. But, being a customer who has spent a lot of money in the NFFC and the NFBC over the past several years, I am not just looking out for myself, but for the future and growth of this contest.

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Glenneration X
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Re: NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

Post by Glenneration X » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:20 pm

I'd like the ability to drop players on Friday that played the Thursday game as long as that player wasn't in your starting lineup. I really don't understand the reasoning on why that isn't allowed.

BillyWaz
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Re: NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

Post by BillyWaz » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:52 am

Route C wrote:
Greg Ambrosius wrote:
BillyWaz wrote:
All good suggestions, but our payouts have to be easy to understand and easy to promote. Billy is right (I bet he never thought I'd say that!! 8-) )

Lol! I guess all it take to "be right" is say the NFFC is the perfect contest. Seriously Billy and Greg did you hear Mike's proposal?
I think it's an awesome idea ...and no... William Wazz it's not too hard to understand! ;)
H2H winner gets $3500...just like now
Points leader gets $3500...just like now
Overall points leader after 16 weeks wins the last $3500. This sure would make for an interesting final 3 weeks of league play especially in those tight leagues where 4 or 5 teams are within 75 points of the leader with 3 weeks to go.
Would this not keep more teams interested?
Would this not be easy to market? More ways to win! C'mon man be creative. The only reason IMO the other contest has grown so quickly is they are great at marketing. This seems like a simple plug to me...one that would bring in new players.

Good idea Mike...easily the best on this thread! :D
This is what I was commenting on, "Jeffrey Giraffe" :lol: ...

by Sandman62 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:15 pm

"The only differences from now are:
1) Any team within x points is also in league playoffs, competing for remaining 1/3.
2) Don't reset points before league playoffs.

The rest was just my usual long-winded rationale."



I think the whole "you have to be within so many points" WOULD be way to confusing (that is all I saw).

Now what you said yesterday on the phone......I would be on board with that! ;)

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Re: NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

Post by CALI CARTEL » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:29 pm

Even though I've been against expanding the league playoffs, rather than setting an arbitrary "number of points within the leader", I had a thought on an interesting format.

Still reward the H2H and Points teams after Week 13 with 1/3 of the prize pool each and the Overall Playoff spots (and the 3rd place teams in Classic/Primetime); but to expand the League Playoffs fairly and to award that final 1/3 prize, how about this option: Any team with more points than the H2H winner stays alive for the League Playoffs Week 14-16, which uses the Week 1-13 avg as a starting point, just like the Overall Playoff.

Example A:
Team 1 - 10-3 - 1900 pts
Team 2 - 9-4 - 1950 pts
Team 3 - 9-4 - 1930 pts
Team 4 - 8-5 - 1850 pts
Team 5 - 7-6 - 1925 pts
Team 6 - 7-6 - 1910 pts
Teams 1, 2, 3, 5 & 6 would stay alive to compete in the League Playoff for the final 1/3 of the prize pool

Example B:
Team 1 - 10-3 - 1900 pts
Team 2 - 9-4 - 1950 pts
Team 3 - 9-4 - 1830 pts
Team 4 - 8-5 - 1850 pts
Team 5 - 7-6 - 1825 pts
Team 6 - 7-6 - 1810 pts
Only Teams 1 & 2 would stay alive for the League Playoff (like the current scenario when teams split the H2H/Points)

Example C:
Team 1 - 10-3 - 1900 pts
Team 2 - 9-4 - 1850 pts
Team 3 - 9-4 - 1830 pts
Team 4 - 8-5 - 1850 pts
Team 5 - 7-6 - 1825 pts
Team 6 - 7-6 - 1810 pts
Like the current system, there is no League Playoff, Team 1 takes the extra prize money after Week 13 automatically

The Points winners could complain about this system, but all he had to do was win the H2H and there wouldn't be a playoff; vice-versa the H2H winners could complain about the format too, but even more important the H2H winners could've shut teams out of the League Playoff just by scoring some more points.

There'd be some weird scenarios, like the Classic Leagues where 10 or 11 teams could still be alive in the league playoffs, but with the Week 1-13 Avg starting each team off, the top points teams still start out with the advantage.

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Re: NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

Post by Sandman62 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:04 pm

That's not a bad idea. However, if the H2H winner is hundreds of points back from the points winner, your proposed system would also let a bunch of other low-scoring (undeserving) teams into the playoffs.

Also, it doesn't help this type of scenario either:
Team 1 - 10-3 - 1935 pts
Team 2 - 9-4 - 1940 pts
Team 3 - 9-4 - 1930 pts
Team 4 - 8-5 - 1925 pts
Team 5 - 7-6 - 1820 pts
Team 6 - 7-6 - 1810 pts

Just looking at this, doesn't it seem that all four of the top scoring teams are pretty darned close and that the true "best team" hasn't yet been determined?

That's why I suggested "within 2% of the top scorer". It wouldn't be arbitrary and being percentage-based would make it relative to each league (whereas points wouldn't). Two percent of 1940 is 38.8 points, so any team above 1901.2 would make it.

Is this really so hard to document and convey? Once understood, wouldn't people be thankful that only the NFFC was willing to take their already industry-leading scoring format to this next level in order to ensure all of the best teams get to compete in the playoffs?

And as we both said, it still pays 1/3 to the H2H champ and 1/3 to the points leader after 13 weeks. Plus, just like now, if the points leader has a large lead over other teams, then it'd still be a two-team playoff for the remaining 1/3. But when the lead isn't large, other deserving teams would still have a shot at league prize money, keeping more teams interested and involved and with an increased confidence in ROI potential.

Here's an actual example going on right now in Classic New York Sept. 8 1 pm ET League (through 12 games):

Record PointsFor PtsRank Back
1) 9-3 1513.30 11 272.45
2) 8-4 1766.80 2 18.95
3) 8-4 1465.10 12 320.65
4) 7-5 1603.15 3 182.60
5) 7-5 1600.25 4 185.50
6) 7-5 1587.30 6 198.45
7) 7-5 1568.50 9 217.25
8) 6-6 1785.75 1
9) 6-6 1594.75 5 191.00
10) 6-6 1570.00 7 215.75
11) 6-6 1569.30 8 216.45
12) 3-9 1422.35 14 363.40
13) 2-10 1562.85 10 222.90
14) 2-10 1434.00 13 351.75

With your proposed system of "anyone who outscores the H2H champ" making the league playoffs, there would be 11 teams playing for the last 1/3, even though 8 of us are 163+ points back from the 2nd high scorer. Though I might benefit from that, I don't at all believe it's fair.

With the current system, just the top scorer would play the H2H team in the playoffs for the last 1/3. Team 2 would earn a berth in the overall national playoffs, but not have a chance at any further league prizes. Yet he is less than 19 points back from the high scorer and 253.5 ahead of the H2H champ, as well as 163.65 ahead of the 3rd highest scoring team. Clearly he and the high scorer have been far and away the best two teams in this league and should both have a chance at that last 1/3 (along with the H2H champ), no?

With my proposed system of "any team within 2% of the top scoring team", 2% of 1785.75 = 35.7. The 2nd highest scoring team is just 18.95 back from the top scorer, so the 2nd scorer would also get to play for the league's last 1/3 (in addition to his overall playoff berth). And if there were a couple more teams within 35.7, they'd also get to vie for the league playoff's last 1/3, but they still wouldn't qualify for the overall national playoffs.

Isn't this a win-win solution?

For the record, I am team 10 above; so this obviously isn't a case of me lobbying for what personally benefits me. ;)

All of that said, as was suggested to me privately by someone, I also wouldn't have a problem with ALL teams being in the running for the final league 1/3 prize. After all, some teams suffered injuries and for other reasons too maybe are just coming on strong towards the end. Why not let the full 16 weeks play out for that last 1/3 (with no reset of point totals or a 3x season average to = the 3 playoff games)? After all, if a team truly is the best, then they would still have the most points after 16 weeks, no? Again, this in no way would effect who makes the overall national playoffs; that would still be determined as it is now. This might help alleviate the issue of some teams quitting early too because now they'd know they have 3 more weeks to stage a comeback (though of course, nothing can really help teams who are hundreds of points back).

Lastly, I know I'm one to often offer suggestions or criticisms, but I also know I don't make a good enough effort to equally give praise where it's due. But suffice it to say that ALL 15 of the fantasy football leagues I do are solely with the NFFC because I really do think they have the best variety of offerings, and I also appreciate the enormous effort they expend to continue improving their offerings. On top of that, Greg and Tom are unbelievably accessible to their customers, which is really unheard of nowadays. So please understand the spirit of my suggestions; I'm really not saying "Damn! The NFFC sucks and here's why!". I'm sincerely just trying to help tweak an already fantastic service. Kudos to both of you, Greg and Tom.

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Re: NFFC Rules Discussion For 2013

Post by BillyWaz » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:36 pm

Mike,

I love the different ways you come up with to improve the NFFC. They are logical, thought out, and above all FAIR.

However, the problem with this latest proposal (in my mind) is that PERCENTS are difficult for A LOT of people to understand. I know we use the 15% rule, but for each league???

All these ideas are good, but I kinda feel like the NFFC is "tapped out" on coming up with new "gimmicks" (for lack of a better word.....saw someone else on another board say that ;) ). KDS, 3RR, and the way the playoffs are currently run (which again, is the BEST SYSTEM OUT THERE) doesn't leave any more room for "gimmicks".

As a side note, the FFPC has their own "gimmicks" too.....1/5 PPR for TE (which many people are griping about this year), duel flex, etc.

I personally don't consider any of this "gimmicky" (every contest needs A FEW THINGS to differentiate themselves) I do think however the more you completely get away from the "standard home league", the harder it will be to grow this or any other contest.

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