**NEW NFFC vs. WCOFF THREAD**

Matt Hooper · Post by **Matt Hooper** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:31 pm

Originally posted by Route C:
Here's to a prosperous future for the NFFC,WCOFF,CDM,Fantasy Jungle...etc...etc...Here, here...

David Wooderson · Post by **David Wooderson** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:04 pm

Originally posted by Chief Brody:
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
Here's to a prosperous future for the NFFC,WCOFF,CDM,Fantasy Jungle...etc...etc...Here, here... [/QUOTE]I agree!!! They are all great!

TradeStar28 · Post by **TradeStar28** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:26 pm

Jeez...

just skimmed over this thread

Looks to me that Fantasy football is going mainstram way too fast...

I sorta enjoyed when we were checking players stats in the newspaper on monday morning and we were compared to dungeon & dragon geeks....

on a side note, would someone please tell me the fascination of watching poker on television.....I dont care if johhny chan or whatever his fuggin name, is going all in...

i remember in the 90's driving to atlantic city, NJ and playing 7 card stud $10-20 for 15 hour runs at a sitting...falling asleep at the table, meeting the most dreary bastards u can ever imagine, all watching cards go round the table...those were the days...now every swinging dick in AC has watched ESPN2 celebrity poker and Rounders thinking they can bluff.

back to fantasy football, who gives a crap about wcoff and that idiot who runs it

there is one competition to be a part of ...thats it, just ONE, and it is NFFC

thank u

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:36 pm

Like the 2 satellite leagues choice better, Chief, as H2H is a whole lot better than rotisserie. Takes away the strength of league and draft position bias argument. Greg won't have a problem running a 12-team satellite league with WCOFF rules and scoring. And I would reserve the one-league choice for the time when one side or the other can't get 13 teams.

dcc1973 · Post by **dcc1973** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:38 pm

I have to say that I'm amazed that a response I posted on the WCOFF message boards has had so much play over here.

Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes

quote:

Originally posted by David Comings:

Other than this having the potential to watch something interesting, I don't see what's in it for the WCOFF to sanction this event?
________________

Hmmm ... couldn't agree more ... why would you take something SO SERIOUS and as IMPORTANT as FF and reach out to do something FUN OR ENTERTAINING!

Can you take yourselves any more seriously than that?

I stated that it would be interesting. It would be fun and/or entertaining as well.

Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes

GG ... I agree with your post's ... just can't imagin why a customer of Lenny's is only concerned about whats in it for the WCOFF and discounts the idea of fun and entertainment (isn't that the purpose of this ... fun and entertainment? What's going on over there? I may need to find this MB.

For us it's fun and entertaining, and that's why we participate. For the owners of these events, it's much more than that...it's their business. Your statement is equal to saying to any pro athlete "You're playing a game, why are you taking this so seriously?". Because it's their business, that's why.

Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes

quote:

Originally posted by Nag':
I discussed this situation with another veteran member of the WCOFF yesterday and we both immediately agreed that Lenny would have no interest in this contest. And to be honest, if I was in his shoes, as the owner of WCOFF, neither would I.
____________________

I see Lenny's point of view here Nag ... but whats up with the players? ... I would have bet money you would be up for this in a heart beat. Why would this not be fun ... from the players perspective? You would be up for this ... wouldn't you?

For the record, I was the first person to post on the WCOFF message boards why this event wouldn't happen. To say "What's up with the players" when 1 out of 820 pointed out an issue is a bit of a reach. I'd love to be a part of an event like this, but one regular season league championship in two seasons of competition would not qualify me as being a part of the best that the WCOFF has to offer at this time.

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius

quote:

Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
When will Greg and Lenny create a "Clash of the Titans" satellite or live league with the best players of both leagues? ...someday!
_______________________

One of the best ideas I've heard in a long time, and I'd be the first to "volunteer" my services. I guess we'd need to use a 13-team format as a compromise In all seriousness, this would bring tremendous national visibility to the NFFC, and would be a heck of a lot of fun.

Any thoughts, Greg?
___________________

I think your sentence of "would bring tremendous national visibility to the NFFC" would prevent anyone from working with us on a concept like this. They already have the largest number of participants, so why would they work with us to create a co-op tournament? No different than me not wanting to do something similar with another contest that has 48 participants in their event.

It's not a bad idea, but I doubt it will ever come to fruition...unless we merge companies some day!

At least one person on these message boards agrees with me in why this won't happen

[ July 19, 2006, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: David Comings ]

dcc1973 · Post by **dcc1973** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:00 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko

This was my response to David Comings. I was going to post it until I saw the WCOFF thread had been locked.

David,
I can see where you are coming from. Let me offer some nuggets…

Media coverage – If the financial stakes were big enough, a face-to-face sit down draft could become a possibility. By having an on-line draft though, media attention could still be garnered if marketed correctly.
Perhaps...
**WCOFF vs NFFC draft is “mentioned” to ESPN (or other sports entities), on message boards, etc… as a Clash of the Titans or if you prefer David vs Goliath.
**The website facilitating the two drafts would allow Internet visitors to watch the drafts real-time.
If you build a juicy enough event, the media attention will come.

Prestige – Winning a battle between the best high stakes fantasy football players in the country would be a prestigious honor. I’m not sure how you can say it wouldn’t feel good to be recognized as the Best.

To give something back to teams that have a proven track record of success – Being recognized by the WCOFF as one of their 13 best players isn’t a good thing?

Gung ho over this proposal – Let me guess, you’re not a fan of the Olympics? Why should USA have to compete against lesser countries? Truth be told, any fantasy football player wanting to represent their event should be Gung ho about a WCOFF vs NFFC format.

NFFC league champions – I agree with you on this point. I (and others) have tried to change it, but to date, have been unsuccessful.

Side note – I don’t want to turn this into a 12 team league vs 14 team league thread. With that said, just like with drinking beers, there is a point of diminishing returns…one beer is good, two beers is even better…, but thirty beers will leave you drunk and sick in the morning. Where to draw the line is up to each individual person. I personally like 14 team leagues. 12 team leagues are fine, but one has to realize that player talent is spread amongst fewer teams and it’s easier for a non-skilled owner to do well, IMO.

Rules – A combination of rules from both leagues is appealing. I think what point of the initial post is to get the ball rolling. Specific details could be worked out if the WCOFF/NFFC Higher-ups agree to get this thing done.

Gordon, you've posted some quality responses here. Let me address a couple of them.

On media coverage - I worked for a nationally syndicated sports-talk radio network for 6 years, so I feel qualified to say that this would not get any media play, no matter how you tried to dress it up.

On prestige, while it would be have prestige to win this event, I don't think the WCOFF would be gaining much here.

On your point about the Olympics, I'm not only a fan of the Olympics, I've covered an Olympics. Get me fantasy football players from 180 countries or 180 different high stakes contests and you'll have an Olympics type event. This proposal isn't even close.

On the 12 team vs. 14 team point, it was posted because Snake had posted the following in the WCOFF thread:

in all actuality this battle would be a massacre, a slaughter, more akin to the military might of the USA (NFFC - 14 team leagues - BIG time) vs Luxembourg (WCOFF - 12 teams - small time)...SNAKE Thus, commenting on 12 teams vs. 14 teams was something that I was responding to.

dcc1973 · Post by **dcc1973** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:17 pm

Tamuscarecrow

I respect Lenny's decision here, just as long as when his event falls to #2, which it eventually will, he doesn't come calling on us. He's shown his narrow-mindedness here to an idea that could have brought him more money and recognition. This wasn't going to be some schoolboy, na-na-na-na-na-na thing, but a friendly competition that could take the game to a new level for all.

As for Dave Comings, probably some SoCal or northeast lawyer, accountant, or painter with no vision and no cajones. Cajones, for those of you in SoCal, means gelding, or yes I feel safer with you around my daughter but you're still brainless.

What a high class individual you are. It sure takes a lot of "cajones" to post something about me in a forum that you don't think I'll ever see. Name calling is such a fantastic way to show your intelligence level.

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:24 pm

On the 12 team vs. 14 team point, it was posted because Snake had posted the following in the WCOFF thread:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
in all actuality this battle would be a massacre, a slaughter, more akin to the military might of the USA (NFFC - 14 team leagues - BIG time) vs Luxembourg (WCOFF - 12 teams - small time)...SNAKE Sorry you had to endure this, Dave, but you need to know that SNAKE may have been in any of several personnas. The fact you answered someone who speaks in 3rd person with Hoof-n-mouth-most-of-the-time disease won't help your cause here. Instead of aggravating us you'll find many of us on your side.

As for media coverage, it has been reported that ESPN is starting up a fantasy football show for the upcoming season. Have some vision here. Just remember, IBM thought Bill Gates was a loser.

On media coverage - I worked for a nationally syndicated sports-talk radio network for 6 years, so I feel qualified to say that this would not get any media play, no matter how you tried to dress it up.Let's see, monicker says Chicagoland so we really can't take this as qualified. Since when has Midwest sports been a driving force in the media tide? Sorry but this is a no-go here, Dave.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:33 pm

We don't need freaking TV/radio play...but it would be nice.

With all the new stuff...pod-casts...fantasy website coverage...fantasy magazine coverage (although it's too late for this year...but next!...etc.)

Think of where the majority of fantasy footballers get their info...it's the web, baby.

Web press would be the dominant press.

ESPN is for entertainment...they have become garbage as far as learning anything of substance.

The NFL network is a step up...but Internet websites are where the hungry fantasy footballer feast.

...market there.

~Lance

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:36 pm

What a high class individual you are. It sure takes a lot of "cajones" to post something about me in a forum that you don't think I'll ever see. Name calling is such a fantastic way to show your intelligence level.Dave, I am not a high class individual and don't paint myself as one nor do I every want to be one as most are arrogant and ignorant to the important things in life. As for what you think of me, I don't care as what me and my family think of me, is all that is important. And as for my intelligence, the first paragraph I typed showed plenty. You seem to be the one saying there is nothing to gain from this potential event with absolutely no basis. You lack vision which says a lot about your class.