H2H Imbalance

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:31 am

Originally posted by Route C:
Dave

I could be swayed toward a play 2. Never done it before but then again the NFFC scoring format was new to me this year and I really like it.

What are your thoughts on a championship game?

RC Seems to add luck factor... which may be good, but quite frankly I'd prefer points based. It does sound like it could be an intense game, but one more layer of complication (Greg seems to wish to avoid that). I guess I'd make my breaking point like this... if it were $1,000 it might be fun, but at $100,000 it needs to be pure and less luck/fluke stuff

Dave

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:31 am

Originally posted by Dyv:

Zef - I like the all play, I really do... played it in other places and it's good. But Greg's already ruled it out. It does add a (very modest) layer of confusion to the novice. I'm inclined to say not many novices would throw down this kind of cash to play, but then again we should encourage as many as possible, right?

How about some more talk on the play 2 concept... anyone like/dislike, does it 'help' or not enough towards reducing the luck factor?

I'm envisioning an environment where you get to trash talk TWICE as much opponent vs. opponent AND eliminating some of the luck issues by having twice the sample size. It wouldn't take away from the score watching on Sunday... would just DOUBLE it.

AND, even more importantly, I think it's the kind of modest change that is simple, effective and Greg could consider.

Stepping stones, eh?

Dave Dave,

My impression was that Greg was against eliminating h2h because people like to be playing an opponent. I'm not certain he would rule out a combo h2h + all-play if could get some momentum.

Having a 2-play with one opponent plus the entire lge as a 2nd opponent may be close enough to preserve the concept that people like so much.

Playing 2 actual opponents would reduce luck some, but not as much, and to me it sounds more unusual than one h2h and one all-play opponent. My impression is that almost everyone understands the all-play concept, they just don't like it because they want to know who their opponent has going.

That said, I do think a straight 2-play would be an improvement, so I would support it if Greg believes its more marketable than a h2h/all-play combo.

Route Collectors · Post by **Route Collectors** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:14 am

Duke

Could you do a 2 play like this:

1)H2H against a weekly opponent = 1 win or 1 loss
2)H2H against the league (including your weekly opponent to get the odd # of teams) If you go 7-6 or better = 1 win. If you go 6-7 or worse = 1 loss.

Each week you increase 2 games in the standings, either 2 wins, 2 losses, or a combo of 1-1.

Will that work and maintain simplicity? I'd like to hear Greg chime in here. Is this marketable?

RC

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:41 am

Originally posted by Route C:
Duke

Could you do a 2 play like this:

1)H2H against a weekly opponent = 1 win or 1 loss
2)H2H against the league (including your weekly opponent to get the odd # of teams) If you go 7-6 or better = 1 win. If you go 6-7 or worse = 1 loss.

Each week you increase 2 games in the standings, either 2 wins, 2 losses, or a combo of 1-1.

Will that work and maintain simplicity? I'd like to hear Greg chime in here. Is this marketable?

RC Exactly RC.

dgamblnman · Post by **dgamblnman** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:07 am

2 cents here..... Before Greg does anything radical, let's fill this thing up first. The first rule of business, appeal to the masses. I understand many of the ideas, but if you don't have a solid foundation, you need to keep it simple to grow. I believe Greg took a loss this year, let him fill up first, make some money, then start making changes.

Anyone who argues with this, start your own event and do whatever you want.

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:37 am

Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:
2 cents here..... Before Greg does anything radical, let's fill this thing up first. The first rule of business, appeal to the masses. I understand many of the ideas, but if you don't have a solid foundation, you need to keep it simple to grow. I believe Greg took a loss this year, let him fill up first, make some money, then start making changes.

Anyone who argues with this, start your own event and do whatever you want. By radical, do you mean make it a better more fair contest that moves closer to fulfilling the contest's implied meaning? And secondly, are you implying that will make the game less profitable for him?

Secondly, Greg knows much better than us the time-frame/ roadmap for this game becoming a profitable venture. He will make the business decisions that he needs to make. What we can provide him is insight into what we believe and what we want as fantasy players. I'm not sure watering down our opinions and Worrying about his bottom line provides him with any insight.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:47 am

I will only chime in by saying I liked it better when Dyv and Gekko were on opposite sides and hated each other. This lovey, dovey agree-with-all-new-ideas relationship is getting sickening. I'm to blame as I bought both Corona's in Las Vegas.

I like all new ideas and making h2h more efficient is a great goal. That being said, I want to analyze all of the leagues and all of the playoff spots after Week 13 and see where we failed and where we succeeded. It's great to talk about changes, but maybe the final results will prove that only a small change is needed. After this week, we'll all be able to speak better on this subject with cold, hard facts.

After all, there's been little talk about draft slot bidding since Priest Holmes became sidelined. Whatever happened to the "I must draft No. 1 to win this thing" talk. Seems like a few No. 13 teams are doing quite well, yours included, Gordon. The No. 1 pick looked a lot better early in the season, but again a 13-game regular season tends to even a lot of things out. Maybe we'll find out it evened out the h2h and total points factors in each league, too. Then again, maybe not, but we'll know for sure on Tuesday morning.

Trust me, I'm watching all of this and taking notes for the future. As for 2005, I think a mainstream approach with a few tweaks makes the most sense as we try to grow this beyond 224 teams.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:28 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I will only chime in by saying I liked it better when Dyv and Gekko were on opposite sides and hated each other. This lovey, dovey agree-with-all-new-ideas relationship is getting sickening. I'm to blame as I bought both Corona's in Las Vegas. actually that should tell you something...

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
After all, there's been little talk about draft slot bidding since Priest Holmes became sidelined. Whatever happened to the "I must draft No. 1 to win this thing" talk. the draft slot bidding discussion has been shelved until the off-season. i can begin it again now, but i'm getting stretched thin on time. the basic notion of draft slot bidding remains the same, let owners have input on draft selection. i've said all along, that the only way the "lower end" teams have a chance is that if priest gets hurt (which he did). i fully expect to see more of a distribution of teams in the playoffs.

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Trust me, I'm watching all of this and taking notes for the future. As for 2005, I think a mainstream approach with a few tweaks makes the most sense as we try to grow this beyond 224 teams. depends on what the tweaks are but i think i'm in basic agreement with this.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:31 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I want to analyze all of the leagues and all of the playoff spots after Week 13 and see where we failed and where we succeeded. It's great to talk about changes, but maybe the final results will prove that only a small change is needed. After this week, we'll all be able to speak better on this subject with cold, hard facts.
make sure the facts count Team Gekko as getting snubbed from the 1st place league prize mostly due to H2H schedule. any other format, i believe we would have finished first, all-play, play vs avg, total pts, etc... we will finish the regular season in the top 10 in total pts, but we just about break even in $. thanks H2H schedule

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:32 pm

oh ya, we got snubbed (in a relative sense) on the weekly prize...tim couch ball. we appreciate it though.

snubs all around

[ December 05, 2004, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]