OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Sandman62
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Re: OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Post by Sandman62 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:28 pm

CALI CARTEL wrote:In the individual leagues it's fine, but in a format with an Overall Championship during the last 3 weeks, the league needs to wrap up by Week 13 and should reward those first 13 weeks
WHY? The teams who make it to the overall playoffs HAVE been rewarded - with some money and a spot in the league playoffs and a lottery ticket. All the league "needs" to do after 13 weeks is determine who gets to advance to the overall championship and who gets to play for the league prizes. And the number of playoff teams and determining who gets to play for the LEAGUE prizes doesn't have to be determined in the same way as the overall participants.
... not just someone who's decent during the first 11 weeks, then runs off 2 upsets to win the league from the 4th qualifier spot.
This can happen in all other individual NFFC leagues.
As long as no more than 2 teams make the playoffs from each OL, aside from a 3rd points qualifier, I really don't care what you do Week 12 & 13 -- a 4-team playoff might be kinda fun, but I don't think it's something the league "needs" to improve at all.
I'm not sure what all this "first 11 weeks" and "week 12 & 13" stuff is about? You do realize that the NFFC regular season runs 13 weeks?

CALI CARTEL
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Re: OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Post by CALI CARTEL » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:43 pm

There'd be 11 if you change the All Play weeks to a 2-week playoff (I wouldn't want to play in a concurrent 4-team League Playoff and the Overall at the same time). Running the 2-week playoff Weeks 12 & 13, instead of the All-Play Weeks 1 & 2.

Sandman62
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Re: OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Post by Sandman62 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:50 pm

Well, I wasn't at all suggesting or mixing the All-Play discussion with the revision to the number of league playoff teams.

As for playing a concurrent league playoff at the same time as the overall, that's exactly what happens in these national contests now whenever the regular season H2H and Points champions are different; it's just that it's only among two teams instead of four.

Again, while I can understand the desire to keep the number of overall playoff participants (lottery tickets) down, I don't see any need for a strong correlation between determining them and determining league playoff participants. :? And all of the arguments against "four teams being too many to vie for the league money" could all be stated against Diamond, Ultimate, Super and Satellite leagues; but they're not. People obviously WANT 4 teams to compete within the league; it's just that people also want only 2 (or 3) teams in the national (lottery) playoffs.

CALI CARTEL
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Re: OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Post by CALI CARTEL » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:05 pm

I just think with so few teams winning additional money in the Overall contest, that it's best to award that League money to the teams that earned it from Weeks 1-13, rather than putting more of a crapshoot on the League money from Week 14-16. It'd be great if I had a monster team, which just barely misses out on the record prize money, then loses a garbage H2H game in the playoff semifinal -- and all I've got to show for it is $500, didn't even get a shot to play for the additional $1100, while the 3rd or 4th place team who doesn't even deserve to be there can now grab that $.

Real Playoffs = TV Revenue + Fans (Good)

Fantasy Playoffs = Novelty + Crapshoot (Bad)

Sandman62
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Re: OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Post by Sandman62 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:08 pm

CALI CARTEL wrote: ... then loses a garbage H2H game in the playoff semifinal
I'm not suggesting a traditional home league style H2H playoff. Rather, the normal NFFC-style 3-week POINTS battle, where you start with your regular season average, then add the next 3 weeks of points to determine the winners - just like all other NFFC non-national (non-DC) leagues handle playoffs. Why is that format ok for a Diamond league - with its $10,000 entry fee - but not for a $350 Online? :?

CALI CARTEL
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Re: OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Post by CALI CARTEL » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:29 pm

Sandman62 wrote:Why is that format ok for a Diamond league - with its $10,000 entry fee - but not for a $350 Online? :?
Because there's money to spread around in that league, there's no National Competition cut to take away from league prizes. There's just not enough set aside for the league prizes in the Online Championship to setup a scenario where the best teams don't even get a cut (or enough of a cut) of that money. There's only $2,100 to award, rather than $110,000 -- in Diamond there's a lot higher % of money left over after awarding the Week 1-13 Record and Points prizes.

If you add more teams to the League Playoffs, you are screwing the team(s) who do well Week 1-13, plain and simple. 4th place in a $10,000 buy-in league is an accomplishment against that field of players; 4th place in a $350 league is not nearly the accomplishment and shouldn't be rewarded the same.

Sandman62
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Re: OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Post by Sandman62 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:32 pm

CALI CARTEL wrote:If you add more teams to the League Playoffs, you are screwing the team(s) who do well Week 1-13, plain and simple. 4th place in a $10,000 buy-in league is an accomplishment against that field of players; 4th place in a $350 league is not nearly the accomplishment and shouldn't be rewarded the same.
How about in a $150 Satellite, which works the exact same way?

CALI CARTEL
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Re: OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Post by CALI CARTEL » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:35 pm

Sandman62 wrote:
CALI CARTEL wrote:If you add more teams to the League Playoffs, you are screwing the team(s) who do well Week 1-13, plain and simple. 4th place in a $10,000 buy-in league is an accomplishment against that field of players; 4th place in a $350 league is not nearly the accomplishment and shouldn't be rewarded the same.
How about in a $150 Satellite, which works the exact same way?

There's no Overall cut in the Satellites, and I don't play the Satellites, don't really care if they allow 4 teams into the playoffs -- probably don't play them because too many teams make the playoffs :D

You just can not come up with a good payout structure in the leagues with the Overalls, there's virtually nothing you can come up with on the payouts that I'd be happy with (I've tried to work it out on paper). There's just not enough money to award to the top teams from Week 1-13 fairly when a large % of the entry fees are going to the Overall.

wiljiro
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Re: OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Post by wiljiro » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:53 pm

To all the H2H guys out there - I present the following from ONLINE Overall -

Teams 5-7 = 53, 98, 133, 176, 213, 272

Team 4-8 = 130

All those teams are in the dance. AND half of them have a shot to WIN their league.

Wiljiro
Ohhhhhhhhh, it's a PROFIT deal!

Greg Ambrosius
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Re: OLC PLAYOFF TEAMS.

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:16 pm

Erok wrote:Sorry, I stand corrected here.

What I was trying to say was that it would be nice to adopt a format similar to FFPC somehow. You would still only have the Best Record/ high points regular season winners make the big playoff, but it would be nice to try to have 4 league teams (2 points +2 record) compete over two weeks for the league prize, prior to the start of the big playoffs.
Erok, since you started this same thread on the FFPC boards last night asking them to change their playoff format, it's obvious that you're not happy with either format. They have an 11 week regular season (8 teams are eliminated before Thanksgiving), 4 playoff teams going H2H in Weeks 12 and 13 and 2 teams in the Championship Round. I saw that you had a Top 2 team in your league and lost a high-scoring H2H matchup in Week 12. Your request for total points over 2 weeks has been well received by other owners, but the old WCOFF format of H2H over 2 weeks has been standard for that contest for years. That's a tough change.

Now here you like the 13 week regular season, or don't you? You want an 11-week regular season and 4 playoff teams going for total points in Weeks 12 and 13, the same request you're asking the FFPC to make?? To me, that would be eliminating 8 teams before Thanksgiving, which seems less of a season for most paying customers. And I'm not sure we're even rewarding the top 2 teams after Week 13 then, are we? What were the first 11 weeks for in that format, just playoff qualifying? Seems like less of an enjoyable contest.

Hey, I understand the year-end frustration and this happens every year where folks ask for more playoff teams and format changes. We've added a third Championship Round qualifying team in the Primetime and I think that has helped that contest. But the Online Championship is so big already that we'll have 300+ teams in the Championship Round the way it is. Adding 156 more teams to the Championship Round would take us closer to 500 total teams. Paying out only the Top 2 teams in each league is tough, but the goal is to reward the two best teams with as much money as possible, not the hottest teams in Weeks 12 and 13.

We'll watch the comments on both threads that you started because good ideas usually come from the customers. But we went from 780 teams to 1,872 in one season and the FFPC grew to over 4,000 teams, so we both must be doing something right in this format. The allure here is the $1,600 league prize and the chance to win $100,000 on a $350 entry. Can we make it an even better contest? I think we can and we'll continue to take your input, but I have to say that going down to 11 weeks for our regular season isn't an option we'll ever consider. Thanks and continued good luck the rest of the way.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius

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