Brady suspended 4 games

The Franchise
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Re: Brady suspended 4 games

Post by The Franchise » Tue May 12, 2015 5:19 pm

Tom Kessenich wrote:Can someone please explain to me why, if this was such a serious transgression, that the ref who touches the ball after EVERY SINGLE PLAY never noticed any issues at all with the balls during the game?
Just read these 2 articles. One is very interesting and the other disgusts me how much time and money was put into this clown show


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ls-report/

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... 45486.html
Winning isn't everything, but the will to win is.

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Coltsfan
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Re: Brady suspended 4 games

Post by Coltsfan » Tue May 12, 2015 5:27 pm

Coach JP,

After I posted that I started remembering some of those incidents. I was kind of hoping that my post would go unnoticed.... :D You are right - there have been a lot of teams playing with the rules. I sounded good at the time though lol.

Nelson,

The Ray Rice situation was far worst. I can't fathom somebody doing that to a lady - much less someone you care about. But my point was that what NE did was cheating. While what Rice did was incomprehensible, it was thought out and strategically planned with the intent of gaining an advantage on the football field while hoping not to get caught. To me they are separate issues. I think the proper comparisons in this situation on when other teams violated the NFL rules to gain an advantage.

Greg,

I had no idea that the difference was that small. Wow! This ruling will definitely get reduced. That's crazy!


Wayne

JETS SB
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Re: Brady suspended 4 games

Post by JETS SB » Wed May 13, 2015 7:39 am

This, coming from a Jets fan. The 4-game suspension was definitely excessive. 1 or 2 games would have been sufficient and will likely end up being the appealed conclusion. The $1 million fine means nothing. The draft picks are probably the biggest surprise, but I suppose the NFL feels that the team should be responsible for their employees.

But let me say this. We are talking about protecting the integrity of the game and outwardly blocking an investigation. This wasn't a crime, like some of the other cases you mention, but it was a cover up and then a lack of cooperation by all involved and came out during the championship game. Plus this wasn't the commissioner accusing anyone of anything. This was the Colts (and the Ravens) accusing the Patriots. This is an internal accusation from other teams. Whether you agree or not that it isn't serious enough for a suspension, avoidance of punishment would have caused serious issues with the rest of the league.

I agree that the suspension of Brady was harsh and will be corrected, but for anyone saying this was not an incident worthy of suspension and punishment, simply for the integrity of the game, then that's pretty silly. Bringing up players who committed serious crimes isn't a fair comparison. They will be facing punishment of their own.
Last edited by JETS SB on Wed May 13, 2015 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tom Kessenich
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Re: Brady suspended 4 games

Post by Tom Kessenich » Wed May 13, 2015 7:48 am

JETS SB wrote: But let me say this. We are talking about protecting the integrity of the game. This wasn't a crime, like some of the other cases you mention, but it was a cover up by all involved and came out during the championship game. Plus this wasn't the commissioner accusing anyone of anything. This was the Colts (and the Ravens) accusing the Patriots. This wasn't simply one player doing something against the "rules". This is an internal accusation from other teams. Whether you agree or not that it isn't serious enough for a suspension, avoidance of punishment would have caused serious issues with the rest of the league.
Then come down hard on the team and/or Belichick the way the Saints got hammered. Brady getting any suspension at all in my opinion is ridiculous. In my opinion he deserved a fine for this.

The key here in my opinion is the punishment should fit the crime. This was such a nebulous action that the league didn't even take the Colts' complaint seriously. That's what Ted Wells said yesterday. So even if there was a huge cover-up who the hell cares because what exactly are they covering up? NOTHING that impacted the outcome of the game in any meaningful way. A fine for the team and Brady and possibly losing a late draft pick. That's what should've happened here.
Tom Kessenich
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Greg Ambrosius
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Re: Brady suspended 4 games

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Wed May 13, 2015 6:08 pm

Greg Bedard of Sports Illustrated had two interesting pieces in this week's issue. Here was his Final Word piece:

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/11/robert ... lls-report

In his Scoreboard piece, he had two items that really stuck out to me. They are below:

"The rule at issue with Brady is minor. The NFL Game Operations Manual stipulates that a violation of PSI regulations triggers a $25,000 fine. If balls being slightly underinflated provided as significant an advantage as the Patriots' hefty punishment would suggest, why wouldn't the NFL have assigned a higher penalty for the underlying offense?"

And his conclusion:

"What lies ahead might not be good for anyone. The person who might look the worst, however, is Goodell. His next great flight could deflate both his and Brady's legacies. The quarterback could have warned Goodell in advance. Overinflate something too much and you risk losing your grip."
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RiFF
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Re: Brady suspended 4 games

Post by RiFF » Wed May 13, 2015 7:01 pm

Espn had a survey yesterday asking if people thought the punishment fit the "crime" or if it was too excessive or to lenient. The results from 44 states thought the punishment was excessive....1 state was undecided (think it was W Va.) 5 states thought it was to lenient...bet everyone can guess at least 4 of those states...

!. Washington...oh surprise NE just beat them in the Super Bowl

2. Louisiana...oh surprise, Goodell didn't hit NE as hard for supposedly taking a little air out of the ball vs NO trying to purposely injure opponent players

3. Colorado/Wyoming...oh surprise Denver fans whose team couldn't get it done

4. And of course Indiana...

And the analyst on ESPN who seems to be the most adamant that the punishment is anything but excessive...Bill Polian...the guy who consistently couldn't beat NE

And I don't even like the Patriots...but find it amusing how people are reacting to this. As someone said in an earlier post...both Minnesota and the Panthers were altering the ball in plain sight during a game with no repercussions.

It will be interesting to sseewhat else, if anything, comes out about this once Brady appeals.

The thing I find most amusing is how most of the analysts and former players are so sanctimonius in their reaction...as if this is the worst thing that has ever happened in ther NFL. Especially from guys like Michael Irvin....lol

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Re: Brady suspended 4 games

Post by BigBlueNation » Thu May 14, 2015 7:42 am

This has become such a joke on the NFL. With all the problems in society and professional sports, the air in the ball (too which EVERYONE admits had no outcome on the game) has become the focus of the sport. Patriot haters call it "the integrity of the game", I call it "a very sad state of affairs" for the league. If you can't use "integrity of the game" in the same sentence with "outcome of the game", something is amiss.
Bill Cleavenger
UK Wildcats...We don't rebuild, we "RELOAD"

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Re: Brady suspended 4 games

Post by JETS SB » Thu May 14, 2015 9:48 am

I am a Patriots hater, I admit it. Then again, I do feel the suspension of Brady was unwarranted. But, anyone who says this cover up and lack of cooperation is nothing, "study the rulebook" (as Tom Brady famously said). The fact that the pressure in the footballs were all at different levels is more proof that it was done quickly and secretly. They weren't going to equally let the same air out of all of the footballs... they didn't have that much time.

Bottom line is... we have proof that two employees let air out of the footballs secretly and after the officials already inspected the footballs. There is no denying that. We have proof that this is how Brady likes his footballs and it helps him grip the ball. I believe the lack of evidence that Brady ordered these employees to do the deed is what should reduce or even eliminate his suspension. The fact that he wouldn't hand over his cell phone doesn't make Brady look good, but shouldn't be the sole evidence that he requested this be done.

The big problem I have with this entire thing isn't this individual event. We all know that the Pats would have won anyways. We all realize that it is a silly offense and much bigger offenses have ended up in smaller consequences. But, the Patriots have put themselves here. They continually bend the rules to gain an advantage far more than any other team and when accused they deny and don't cooperate. Every other team in the league knows it and will find these "small" issues to paint a bigger picture. Neither the rest of the league or the commissioner has caused it to be this way. The Patriots get themselves in these messes on their own.

Downplay it all you want, this isn't just about deflating footballs. Its about believing that you can do anything you want without consequences.

This will go to appeal and based upon the attorneys Brady has hired, it is a long way from over. In the end, everything will likely be reduced. But, you can be guaranteed that this won't be the last incident involving the Pats.

RiFF
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Re: Brady suspended 4 games

Post by RiFF » Thu May 14, 2015 3:29 pm

JETS SB wrote: Bottom line is... we have proof that two employees let air out of the footballs secretly and after the officials already inspected the footballs. There is no denying that. .
I was under the same impression after listening to all the rhetoric espoused by the supposedly neutral analysts and reporters on the various sports channels...in particular ESPN. Listening to them since this came out just prior to the superbowl, I imagined Brady tossing around a "frisbee" because the balls he was using were so deflated. I recall Nark Brunell among others saying how much easier it is to handle and grip a ball at around 10 psi versus a properly inflated ball. All this made me think wow, they sure caught these arroganmt A-Holes this time. then I read this:



"The erroneous report from ESPN that 10 of 12 balls were 2.0 PSI below the 12.5 PSI minimum cemented the early narrative that the amount of air missing from the footballs clearly suggests tampering. The actual numbers, standing alone, say otherwise.

It’s possible that the actual numbers suggest no tampering at all. Which could be the biggest problem with the 243-page report.

Here’s where we try (key word: try) to take something that’s pretty complicated and make it somewhat understandable.

First, the officials had two pressure gauges available — and those pressure gauges generated very different measurements.

One gauge had a Wilson logo on the back. The other didn’t. One had an obviously crooked needle. The other didn’t.

The gauge with the Wilson logo and the longer, crooked needle typically generated higher readings, in the range of 0.3 to 0.45 PSI.

The measurements taken at halftime of the AFC title game by the two available gauges demonstrated this reality. Here’s the gap in PSI for each of the 11 Patriots footballs, based on the two gauges: (1) 0.3 PSI; (2) 0.35 PSI; (3) 0.35 PSI; (4) 0.3 PSI; (5) 0.35 PSI; (6) 0.35 PSI; (7) 0.45 PSI; (8) 0.45 PSI; (9) 0.4 PSI; (10) 0.4 PSI; and (11) 0.45 PSI.

Second, referee Walt Anderson doesn’t recall which gauge he used to measure PSI at the start of the game.

The absence of a documentation regarding the air pressure in the Patriots footballs prior to kickoff can be justified by Anderson’s clear recollection that he ensured each ball was set to 12.5 PSI. However, Anderson doesn’t clearly recall whether he used the gauge that generates the higher measurement or the one that generates the lower measurement.

It’s an important point because the gauge used before kickoff determines the starting point for the halftime analysis. If the pressures were set by the gauge with the logo and the long, crooked needle, that’s the gauge that should have been used at halftime. If it was the other gauge that was used before the game, that’s the one that should have been used at halftime.

The Wells report concludes that Anderson used the gauge that generates the lower measurement before kickoff, despite Anderson’s lack of specific recollection as to which gauge he used. The reasoning for the decision to assume Anderson used the gauge without the Wilson logo appears in the paragraph contained at the bottom of page 116 of the report.

Frankly, the explanation doesn’t make much sense. If anyone understands it, please let us know.

Here’s the one thing that does make sense: Without knowing which gauge was used to set the pressures before the game, it’s impossible to know which set of readings taken at halftime is the accurate set of readings, and which set of readings should be thrown out.

Third, knowing the gauge that was used before kickoff is critical to proving tampering.

At page 113, the Wells report states: “[T]he Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.”

As those of you who were visiting PFT frequently in the early days of #DeflateGate may recall, the Ideal Gas Law refers to the formula that determines the changes in gases based on various factors, including but not limited to volume, pressure, and temperature. And the Wells report concludes that all Patriots footballs should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 PSI at halftime.

But that observation hinges on the question of which gauge was used to set the PSI prior to kickoff. If the gauge that generates the higher numbers was used, the measurements of the Patriots footballs taken by that gauge are mostly consistent with the 11.52-11.32 PSI range at halftime: (1) 11.8; (2) 11.2; (3) 11.5; (4) 11.0; (5) 11.45; (6) 11.95; (7) 12.3; (8) 11.55; (9) 11.35; (10) 10.9; and (11) 11.35.

Based on those readings, three of the footballs were above the predicted range, five were in the predicted range, and three were below the predicted range.

By assuming that the gauge that generates the lower readings was used before the game began, the readings taken by that same gauge at halftime show that one ball was above the predicted range, two were in the predicted range, and eight were below the predicted range. Which is more consistent with the conclusion that some degree of tampering occurred.

So, basically, the scientific proof of tampering hinges on a literal coin flip between the pressure gauge that generated a higher reading and the pressure gauge that generated a lower reading. Apart from the very real problems inherent to the NFL using pressure gauges that generate such dramatically different readings for a key postseason game, the justification used to assume that Walt Anderson used before kickoff the gauge that makes tampering more likely doesn’t feel like the outcome of a scientific experiment. It feels like an effort to work backward to justify a predetermined conclusion".


After reading this it seems ESPN and other sports outlets MAY have resorted to this:

"Sensationalism is a type of editorial bias in mass media in which events and topics in news stories and pieces are over-hyped to increase viewership or readership numbers. Sensationalism may include reporting about generally insignificant matters and events that don't influence overall society and biased presentations of newsworthy topics in a trivial or tabloid manner contrary to the standards of professional journalism.
Some tactics include being deliberately obtuse, appealing to emotions, being controversial, intentionally omitting facts and information, being loud and self-centered and acting to obtain attention. Trivial information and events are sometimes misrepresented and exaggerated as important or significant, and often includes stories about the actions of individuals and small groups of people, the content of which is often insignificant and irrelevant relative to the macro-level day-to-day events that occur globally. Furthermore, the content and subject matter typically doesn't affect the lives of the masses and doesn't affect society, and instead is broadcast and printed to attract viewers and readers".

Trey Wingo has to fill up an hour every day on NFL Live....just sayin....nevermind that bunch of dunderdinks on NFL Insiders

I probably dislike the Patriots about as much as the average fan that doesn't like the same team continually being overly successful. But, if we're going to crucify them let's come up with something better than this. And I don't have a reasonable explanation for Larry and Curly's (the 2 locker room employees) texts. And it is possible....probably likely that something was historically occurring...but in this particular instance I'm not totally convinced, based on the evidence, that anything did occur. If something was amiss Larry and Curly didn't do a very good job of executing the intent based on these findings. Some are wondering why the Patriots would suspend Larry and Curly if they thought them innocent of any wrong doing...maybe it was because the 2 nitwits couldn't even deflate a football properly!!!

BigBlueNation
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Re: Brady suspended 4 games

Post by BigBlueNation » Thu May 14, 2015 3:39 pm

I can summarize the NFL's "Integrety of the Game" in one short comment. "Paul Hornung is in the HOF, Pete Rose isn't."

Nobody should be suspended on "probably"..... :roll:
Bill Cleavenger
UK Wildcats...We don't rebuild, we "RELOAD"

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