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3) COLLUSION can occur due to trading. This is the MAJOR thing that turns me off. I can have a stellar draft and because one guy "rips a few people off", he now has team a equal to, or better than mine"???

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I played in an ESPN league about 7 years ago. Maybe 8? I don't know how they do it now, but back then, they put you into a random league. I was put in a league where about 5 out of the 10 or 12 were friends. You can tell by the league's messageboards.

I was in 1st place in this league, but lost my 1st round player just before the playoffs. I don't even remember which player it was, but it was a RB and my best player. Since there was trading in this league, I put up some very good offers for a RB in return. At the time I had too many good WR's on my roster, and with one RB short, it made sense to trade one or two of my WR's for a decent RB.

All of my trade offers were declined. One owner said he thought he was out of it, so he didn't want to trade anymore. He said "It wouldn't be right". That same owner traded his best RB for 2 schitty WR's the next week, and the team he traded that RB to beat me in the post-season. I wrot e a letter to ESPN and they told me there was nothing they could do. I told them to take their fixed game and shove it up their a$$.

I'll never play in a league with trading, with people I don't know anymore. In fact, in any league that I'm in, I propose the ban of trading altogether.

I'm done venting.

Originally posted by Nag':
If you consider taxes, the ROI on any of the prizes, including 100/200G is unacceptable, considering the odds of winning, imo.
you may have a point if
1) you consider your skills were "equal to or below" everyone else's
2) you only factor "dollars won" in the ROI equation

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
If you consider taxes, the ROI on any of the prizes, including 100/200G is unacceptable, considering the odds of winning, imo.
you may have a point if
1) you consider your skills were "equal to or below" everyone else's
2) you only factor "dollars won" in the ROI equation [/QUOTE]I'm not sure how to factor in my skillz into the ROI and quite honestly, the ROI "equation" (if you want to call it that) that I go by is this:

Total WCOFF investment (entry + expenses) = $2500.
Max NET profit WCOFF for winning Grand Prize ~ $120,000.
Odds of winning = 1 in 840

ROI = Not very good.

Originally posted by Nag':
Odds of winning = 1 in 840While statistically accurate, I would put your personal chances of winning the WCOFF at greater than 1 in 840. Thus, ROI moves from "not very good" to "better than the next guy".

I may be a tad biased on this issue but I definitely think the 1300 is well worth a shot at the weekend I experienced 6 weeks ago.

The feeling of being in the hunt going into the final weekend and actually leading going into the final two games on Xmas Day was priceless. The experience of that final weekend was worth more than winning the 100K to me and I needed the cash. That "ride" was worth every minute I spent preparing and every penny I committed in the search for this opportunity.

I am living proof that it can happen to anyone. I give you all hope. The hope that maybe you can nail your draft, stay healthy, get hot at the right time and walk away with a cool $65,0000+ after taxes.

Can anyone who really knows this game afford to not take a shot at the Championship? Can you afford to not join the NFFC? I don't think so.

You could be the next Champion! Sign up now before the word gets out and this thing sells out.

Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
The "alternative" you speak of offers NEITHER of those in my opinion, as they;

1) Are EXTREMELY boring (no comraderie at all)

2) Do not have the competition (again, if pounding on CONSISTENT weaker players is your thing, I agree it IS for you).
&

3) COLLUSION can occur due to trading. This is the MAJOR thing that turns me off. I can have a stellar draft and because one guy "rips a few people off", he now has team a equal to, or better than mine"???
Billy,

1. That's very subjective as I am not one who needs the "comraderie" you speak of or the constant MB trash talk.

2. This is incorrect. Most owners are very capable and involved. There are many WCOFF veterans playing there, especially in the $500-$1000 levels. I found the ratio of weak players to strong ones not much different than in your average NFFC/WCOFF league. But in all honesty, if it so happens that there is a "less than top-notch" owner in my $1000 entry league, I have no problem with that whatsoever.

3. Personally, I have always benefited from the ability to trade, but I obviously will agree with you on this point as far as collusion is a danger when trading is allowed. Although I have not experienced a blatant example of it in the 4 years playing and I DID see some unbalanced trades which have been correctly overruled by the commish. [/QUOTE]Nag,

1) You are correct, it is a subjective statement. All I know is I have met some good people through this event who I feel I will be friends with for a long time. I couldn't tell you 2 names of people in the "other league".

2) I disagree, but this too is a matter of opinion. The only league I was in this past year was a $100 keeper, so maybe it is significantly different.

3) Trading is something that I absolutely am distancing myself from. Too much chance for collusion, and I personally am not going to put my trust in ONE person to make the decision of whether it is "good or bad". That being said, I have never really experienced anything bad in the leagues we are discussing.

Good to have you back around Nag, it seems like you haven't been around in while!

bottom line, what lotter in the united states gives you a 1 in 300 shot at a 100,000.00. or for WCOFF, a 1 in 600 some odd shot at 200k or 250k whatever it is.. to me those are good odds. i've played in wcoff league for 3 years and gotten nothing out of the big league, however i've one money each year in auction leagues, it pays the entry fees so one year i'll eventually get in the money on the main event.. this year im going NFFC, love the rules and seems more reasonaable.. ownership is cLASS ACT..

and in the WCOFF, if snake would have posted something on the site like he posted here, he would have already been kicked off boards and probably banned from the league itself.. i applaud Greg's patience..

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by TURBOUGH:
All points are valid. I wasn't here attacking the NFFC or anything. It was simply a topic to discuss. I've already committed to 2007. I enjoy these leagues and will for a long time. But as expected, some people (Gekko) take it as a personal attack. Like I stated on the original post, I wanted no personal attacks but should have known better with some of the classless particpants. you basically said, "is it really worth entering the NFFC, as local leagues have a better ROI?"

classless participants? start by looking in the mirror. [/QUOTE]No where in any of my posts did I point this out about the NFFC. Please don't quote something that doesn't exist.

Hard to believe that I'm agreeing with Nag but he brings up good points. I've met some really good people in the bigger leagues. I'm looking forward to 2007.

Summarize your initial post into one sentence, and you basically have what I posted. I'm the KING of reading beteen the lines. Maybe you didn't mean to say it, but that's exactly how you came across