You can bump me up to be in a tie with my buddy Don Thompson though!
Keeping track of all the satellites is damn near impossible!
[ January 09, 2007, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
KJ Duke's Lifetime NFFC Leaderboard
KJ Duke's Lifetime NFFC Leaderboard
Nice job for a "test run" KJ.
You can bump me up to be in a tie with my buddy Don Thompson though!
Keeping track of all the satellites is damn near impossible!
[ January 09, 2007, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
You can bump me up to be in a tie with my buddy Don Thompson though!
Keeping track of all the satellites is damn near impossible!
[ January 09, 2007, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
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Ted's Cracked Head
- Posts: 2817
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:00 pm
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Question: Shouldn't the Championship be worth more than only twice the Ultimate Winner? I did have to beat 321 or 51 people depending on how you look at it, while the Ultimate winner just won a single league? Plus we won more than 3x the cash and more than 6 times the second place money.
What is the Championship worth? That is all I am asking and I think more than 2x would be appropriate. I would say at least 5x more.
Hundreds will play each year but only one wins. That means that over the next 20 years, 302 of us will not win this thing. Plus the odds get worse for all of us as the challenge grows and it will seriously grow this year.
Just thinking out loud here,
[ January 09, 2007, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Ted's Cracked Head ]
What is the Championship worth? That is all I am asking and I think more than 2x would be appropriate. I would say at least 5x more.
Hundreds will play each year but only one wins. That means that over the next 20 years, 302 of us will not win this thing. Plus the odds get worse for all of us as the challenge grows and it will seriously grow this year.
Just thinking out loud here,
[ January 09, 2007, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Ted's Cracked Head ]
My mama says she loves me but she could be jiving too! BB King
KJ Duke's Lifetime NFFC Leaderboard
Originally posted by Ted's Cracked Head:
Question: Shouldn't the Championship be worth more than only twice the Ultimate Winner? I did have to beat 321 or 51 people depending on how you look at it, while the Ultimate winner just won a single league? Plus we won more than 3x the cash and more than 6 times the second place money.
What is the Championship worth? That is all I am asking and I think more than 2x would be appropriate. I would say at least 5x more.
Hundreds will play each year but only one wins. That means that over the next 20 years, 302 of us will not win this thing. Plus the odds get worse for all of us as the challenge grows and it will seriously grow this year.
Just thinking out loud here, TCH, you could argue maybe a little more weight (right now it's actually 2.5x), but it's still just one one team and one victory (albeit one huge one). Here is the critical question ... do you believe that winning the main event shows as much skill at winning 5 Ultimates? Or is 2.5 the right number, or 3 or ???
Winning big once shows definite superior skill but probably a good amount of luck too. Winning two or three times (or five) against the Ultimate's top competition with 4x the amount of money at risk - what does that show??
Question: Shouldn't the Championship be worth more than only twice the Ultimate Winner? I did have to beat 321 or 51 people depending on how you look at it, while the Ultimate winner just won a single league? Plus we won more than 3x the cash and more than 6 times the second place money.
What is the Championship worth? That is all I am asking and I think more than 2x would be appropriate. I would say at least 5x more.
Hundreds will play each year but only one wins. That means that over the next 20 years, 302 of us will not win this thing. Plus the odds get worse for all of us as the challenge grows and it will seriously grow this year.
Just thinking out loud here, TCH, you could argue maybe a little more weight (right now it's actually 2.5x), but it's still just one one team and one victory (albeit one huge one). Here is the critical question ... do you believe that winning the main event shows as much skill at winning 5 Ultimates? Or is 2.5 the right number, or 3 or ???
Winning big once shows definite superior skill but probably a good amount of luck too. Winning two or three times (or five) against the Ultimate's top competition with 4x the amount of money at risk - what does that show??
KJ Duke's Lifetime NFFC Leaderboard
Tweaking my working model ... the opening thread will show revisions.
(1) I'll bump the main event win from 32 pts to 40 pts. Assuming a regular season win as well, that single team could score a total of 48 pts, which would equal winning 3 Ultimate lges.
(2) Considering that it's possible to cash out multiple times in the same lge, I'll eliminate getting LCS pts more than once for the same lge, except for the main event.
(3) Bump the Ultimate cash out from 4 to 8 pts, same as in baseball, since I've eliminated mutiple scores for the same lge.
(4) Add an 8 point bonus for the overall reguular season champ.
I'll also update the football standing tonight, everything is now in there except for the 3rd place winners from 2004 (and no co-mgrs). Co-mgrs is another tricky topic.
(1) I'll bump the main event win from 32 pts to 40 pts. Assuming a regular season win as well, that single team could score a total of 48 pts, which would equal winning 3 Ultimate lges.
(2) Considering that it's possible to cash out multiple times in the same lge, I'll eliminate getting LCS pts more than once for the same lge, except for the main event.
(3) Bump the Ultimate cash out from 4 to 8 pts, same as in baseball, since I've eliminated mutiple scores for the same lge.
(4) Add an 8 point bonus for the overall reguular season champ.
I'll also update the football standing tonight, everything is now in there except for the 3rd place winners from 2004 (and no co-mgrs). Co-mgrs is another tricky topic.
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TradeStar28
- Posts: 2169
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:00 pm
KJ Duke's Lifetime NFFC Leaderboard
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
can you give more or less points depending on what draft slot you had. for instance the good owners who won their leagues without picking in the top 3 deserve a lot more credit than the average owners who lucked into LT if thats the case, put me at #1 overall above Ferenc since I took McGahee in the 1st round for 2 years in a row....
thats like tiger woods slicing the ball into the water on the first hole, then shooting it into the sand trap, then firing the ball 50 yards over the green, then 5 putting it
btw KJ Duke, my #'s are off, no biggie,,,good job overall though
[ January 10, 2007, 03:00 AM: Message edited by: FISHER ]
can you give more or less points depending on what draft slot you had. for instance the good owners who won their leagues without picking in the top 3 deserve a lot more credit than the average owners who lucked into LT if thats the case, put me at #1 overall above Ferenc since I took McGahee in the 1st round for 2 years in a row....
thats like tiger woods slicing the ball into the water on the first hole, then shooting it into the sand trap, then firing the ball 50 yards over the green, then 5 putting it
btw KJ Duke, my #'s are off, no biggie,,,good job overall though
[ January 10, 2007, 03:00 AM: Message edited by: FISHER ]
2012 - FI$HER - Flying High Again
KJ Duke's Lifetime NFFC Leaderboard
Originally posted by FISHER:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
can you give more or less points depending on what draft slot you had. for instance the good owners who won their leagues without picking in the top 3 deserve a lot more credit than the average owners who lucked into LT if thats the case, put me at #1 overall above Ferenc since I took McGahee in the 1st round for 2 years in a row....
thats like tiger woods slicing the ball into the water on the first hole, then shooting it into the sand trap, then firing the ball 50 yards over the green, then 5 putting it
btw KJ Duke, my #'s are off, no biggie,,,good job overall though [/QUOTE]Fish, I have you 2nd overall in '06 Main (16 pts) and 3rd Snake Classic (1 pt). I see your partner D Lichtman shows having 4 pts for your team's money finish in NY9. Co-mgrs makes this ranking very difficult. I'm hoping Greg can get me the data to solve that.
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
can you give more or less points depending on what draft slot you had. for instance the good owners who won their leagues without picking in the top 3 deserve a lot more credit than the average owners who lucked into LT if thats the case, put me at #1 overall above Ferenc since I took McGahee in the 1st round for 2 years in a row....
thats like tiger woods slicing the ball into the water on the first hole, then shooting it into the sand trap, then firing the ball 50 yards over the green, then 5 putting it
btw KJ Duke, my #'s are off, no biggie,,,good job overall though [/QUOTE]Fish, I have you 2nd overall in '06 Main (16 pts) and 3rd Snake Classic (1 pt). I see your partner D Lichtman shows having 4 pts for your team's money finish in NY9. Co-mgrs makes this ranking very difficult. I'm hoping Greg can get me the data to solve that.
KJ Duke's Lifetime NFFC Leaderboard
Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
1st total point & H2H in 2005 Magazine leagueYou didn't cash out, as it was a winner-take-all league. As I recall, you came in either 3rd or 4th place.
No points for this one. [/QUOTE]This is a perfect example of my point. We are here discussing ways to measure fantasy success or rankings. Now I personally am not overly worried about where I rank. But I am interested in the process. This above league you refer to confused everyone. Half in the league thought it was a total points sprint with no post season like a main event league (you can check the league posts). Some thought it was league where the post season would be based on 3 week cumulative playoff weeks scoring like main event playoffs. In any normal NFFC league being the winner of H2H AND total points would be considered a "cashed out" position. This league had not decided what we were even playing for (not sure we ever came up with an answer to that...lol) Keep in mind this is a league of higher level players that were gathered. If I am not mistaken, this was actually a CHAMPIONS league from the season before, invitation only.
To me, winning an NFFC league in terms of total points or H2H should have value no matter what. Also, using your PGA example. Not everyone can afford to play numerous high stakes NFFC events per season. Should those who can afford more events be ranked higher because of that based on money earned being a major priority? Or should we be measuring actual fantasy skills shown in NFFC events?
Just throwing out thoughts to discuss nicely.
[ January 10, 2007, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: renman ]
quote:Originally posted by renman:
1st total point & H2H in 2005 Magazine leagueYou didn't cash out, as it was a winner-take-all league. As I recall, you came in either 3rd or 4th place.
No points for this one. [/QUOTE]This is a perfect example of my point. We are here discussing ways to measure fantasy success or rankings. Now I personally am not overly worried about where I rank. But I am interested in the process. This above league you refer to confused everyone. Half in the league thought it was a total points sprint with no post season like a main event league (you can check the league posts). Some thought it was league where the post season would be based on 3 week cumulative playoff weeks scoring like main event playoffs. In any normal NFFC league being the winner of H2H AND total points would be considered a "cashed out" position. This league had not decided what we were even playing for (not sure we ever came up with an answer to that...lol) Keep in mind this is a league of higher level players that were gathered. If I am not mistaken, this was actually a CHAMPIONS league from the season before, invitation only.
To me, winning an NFFC league in terms of total points or H2H should have value no matter what. Also, using your PGA example. Not everyone can afford to play numerous high stakes NFFC events per season. Should those who can afford more events be ranked higher because of that based on money earned being a major priority? Or should we be measuring actual fantasy skills shown in NFFC events?
Just throwing out thoughts to discuss nicely.
[ January 10, 2007, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: renman ]
KJ Duke's Lifetime NFFC Leaderboard
Originally posted by renman:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
1st total point & H2H in 2005 Magazine leagueYou didn't cash out, as it was a winner-take-all league. As I recall, you came in either 3rd or 4th place.
No points for this one. [/QUOTE]Half in the league thought it was a total points sprint with no post season like a main event league (you can check the league posts). Some thought it was league where the post season would be based on 3 week cumulative playoff weeks scoring like main event playoffs. In any normal NFFC league being the winner of H2H AND total points would be considered a "cashed out" position. This league had not decided what we were even playing for (not sure we ever came up with an answer to that...lol) Keep in mind this is a league of higher level players that were gathered. If I am not mistaken, this was actually a CHAMPIONS league from the season before, invitation only.
[/QUOTE]I don't know where all the confusion about the mag champs league came from in 2005, as I personally knew all along the playoff system and the end of the year prize (not exactly sure why you and others didn't??
)
The format was probably changed this year (playoff format for 3 weeks) due to the fact that
many complained and it didn't award the "best" team.
Honestly Renman, I doubt KJ took this league into account (Magazine- 2005 and Mag 1 - 2006) when tabulating my total points, as I won BOTH years.
As a side note, the reason for not considering "cashing" in this particular league (Mag) is that if you finish with best points/record, etc. the league is still FREE, and therefore only rewards the "top dog".
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
1st total point & H2H in 2005 Magazine leagueYou didn't cash out, as it was a winner-take-all league. As I recall, you came in either 3rd or 4th place.
No points for this one. [/QUOTE]Half in the league thought it was a total points sprint with no post season like a main event league (you can check the league posts). Some thought it was league where the post season would be based on 3 week cumulative playoff weeks scoring like main event playoffs. In any normal NFFC league being the winner of H2H AND total points would be considered a "cashed out" position. This league had not decided what we were even playing for (not sure we ever came up with an answer to that...lol) Keep in mind this is a league of higher level players that were gathered. If I am not mistaken, this was actually a CHAMPIONS league from the season before, invitation only.
[/QUOTE]I don't know where all the confusion about the mag champs league came from in 2005, as I personally knew all along the playoff system and the end of the year prize (not exactly sure why you and others didn't??
)The format was probably changed this year (playoff format for 3 weeks) due to the fact that
many complained and it didn't award the "best" team.
Honestly Renman, I doubt KJ took this league into account (Magazine- 2005 and Mag 1 - 2006) when tabulating my total points, as I won BOTH years.
As a side note, the reason for not considering "cashing" in this particular league (Mag) is that if you finish with best points/record, etc. the league is still FREE, and therefore only rewards the "top dog".
KJ Duke's Lifetime NFFC Leaderboard
Waz,
I understand all you are saying. Though I assure you there was all kinds of confusion last year as to what we were playing for. And if you look at the homepage for that league right now, you will see the most recent post saying they thought the season was over with the regular season and that there was no playoffs, let alone a head 2 head crapshoot. Again, if you are rewarding the "top dog" is the top dog the team who was the best all season or the team who got lucky in a head 2 head playoff game?
Though we did not pay to get in, we still played out the league. I think your regular season performances in both those leagues should be counted as they were NFFC leagues, and the competition was strong. "How much" you won does not really change what you accomplished or how it should be judged in terms of your NFFC resume.
I am just interested in all of this in terms of how we are to judge NFFC success or have a point list.
I understand all you are saying. Though I assure you there was all kinds of confusion last year as to what we were playing for. And if you look at the homepage for that league right now, you will see the most recent post saying they thought the season was over with the regular season and that there was no playoffs, let alone a head 2 head crapshoot. Again, if you are rewarding the "top dog" is the top dog the team who was the best all season or the team who got lucky in a head 2 head playoff game?
Though we did not pay to get in, we still played out the league. I think your regular season performances in both those leagues should be counted as they were NFFC leagues, and the competition was strong. "How much" you won does not really change what you accomplished or how it should be judged in terms of your NFFC resume.
I am just interested in all of this in terms of how we are to judge NFFC success or have a point list.
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RI WORKHORSE
- Posts: 1567
- Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:00 pm
KJ Duke's Lifetime NFFC Leaderboard
Originally posted by KJ Duke:
I am attempting to develop a ranking methodology for accumulated lifetime accomplishment in the NFBC and NFFC. The concept is based on Lifetime Championship Scoring (LCS) points. Anyone cashing out any NFFC league scores LCS points, the higher the lge or accomplishment, the higher the points. Scoring detail below, anyone with 10 pts or more makes the list. (Co-manager data not yet available).
NFFC Leaderboard
The Elite - Averaging double digit LCS points per NFFC season
Josh Ferenc (56)
Mark Srebro (56)
Rob Benetti (50)
Kyle Pope (44)
Glenn Schroter (42)
Eddie Gillis (34)
Michael Edelman (34)
Scott Stauffer (34)
Mike Ward (32)
Title Contenders - On the verge of Stardom
Donald Thompson (28)
Johnny Frisella (28)
Billy Wasosky (26)
Ken Magner (25)
Eric Lundquist (24)
Jules McLean (24)
Lewis Lightfoot (24)
David Zwickel (21)
Barry Harcus (20)
James Mack (20)
John Bayley (20)
Joseph Treffiletti (20)
Mark Moyer (20)
Scott Gunaca (20)
Proven Winners - Skills to compete at the highest level
David Fisher (17)
Stephen Jupinka (17)
Chris Cannataro (16)
Dave Cushard (16)
Edward Killmer (16)
Kenrol Paynter (16)
Larry Schechter (16)
Ronald Rogers (16)
Shawn Childs (16)
Rick Thomas (14)
Jeff Clampett (13)
Lonny Graves (12)
Steve Pletkin (12)
Jason Steeves (11)
Richard Dunn (11)
Mike Ferre (10)
Rick Hart (10)
Wayne Ellis (10)
Will Robertson (10)
LCS Point Accumulation:
Win Overall Main Event (40)
Top 3 Overall Main Event (16)
Top 8 Overall Main Event(8)
Points Leader, regular season, Main Event (8)
Consolation Bowl winner (8)
Top 4 Consolation Bowl (4)
Win $5000+ lge (16)
Cash $5000+ lge (8)
Win $1000+ lge (8)
Cash $1000+ lge (4)
Win $500+ lge (4)
Cash $500+ lge (2)
Win any lge (2)
Cash any lge (1)
*** Teams do not win duplicate pts for the same team in one league (i.e., if a league H2H season winner also cashs out in the playoffs, that team if not awarded LCS points multiple times), with the exception of consolation bowl or overall main event winners. Great work on this!!!!
I seen Billy waz wanting his due so I figured i would try to get mine....
I won -
1.Back to Back main events-16 points(no extra for b2b?
2.Auction championship-8 points
3.DC 28 team satellite-8 points
4.DC 3rd place finish-2 points
5.won three satellite league's-24 points
Total-58-points
Again Great work on this....No extra points for winning two main events in a row....???? How about three? Also would my scoring be correct?
Thanks
Johnny
I am attempting to develop a ranking methodology for accumulated lifetime accomplishment in the NFBC and NFFC. The concept is based on Lifetime Championship Scoring (LCS) points. Anyone cashing out any NFFC league scores LCS points, the higher the lge or accomplishment, the higher the points. Scoring detail below, anyone with 10 pts or more makes the list. (Co-manager data not yet available).
NFFC Leaderboard
The Elite - Averaging double digit LCS points per NFFC season
Josh Ferenc (56)
Mark Srebro (56)
Rob Benetti (50)
Kyle Pope (44)
Glenn Schroter (42)
Eddie Gillis (34)
Michael Edelman (34)
Scott Stauffer (34)
Mike Ward (32)
Title Contenders - On the verge of Stardom
Donald Thompson (28)
Johnny Frisella (28)
Billy Wasosky (26)
Ken Magner (25)
Eric Lundquist (24)
Jules McLean (24)
Lewis Lightfoot (24)
David Zwickel (21)
Barry Harcus (20)
James Mack (20)
John Bayley (20)
Joseph Treffiletti (20)
Mark Moyer (20)
Scott Gunaca (20)
Proven Winners - Skills to compete at the highest level
David Fisher (17)
Stephen Jupinka (17)
Chris Cannataro (16)
Dave Cushard (16)
Edward Killmer (16)
Kenrol Paynter (16)
Larry Schechter (16)
Ronald Rogers (16)
Shawn Childs (16)
Rick Thomas (14)
Jeff Clampett (13)
Lonny Graves (12)
Steve Pletkin (12)
Jason Steeves (11)
Richard Dunn (11)
Mike Ferre (10)
Rick Hart (10)
Wayne Ellis (10)
Will Robertson (10)
LCS Point Accumulation:
Win Overall Main Event (40)
Top 3 Overall Main Event (16)
Top 8 Overall Main Event(8)
Points Leader, regular season, Main Event (8)
Consolation Bowl winner (8)
Top 4 Consolation Bowl (4)
Win $5000+ lge (16)
Cash $5000+ lge (8)
Win $1000+ lge (8)
Cash $1000+ lge (4)
Win $500+ lge (4)
Cash $500+ lge (2)
Win any lge (2)
Cash any lge (1)
*** Teams do not win duplicate pts for the same team in one league (i.e., if a league H2H season winner also cashs out in the playoffs, that team if not awarded LCS points multiple times), with the exception of consolation bowl or overall main event winners. Great work on this!!!!
I seen Billy waz wanting his due so I figured i would try to get mine....
I won -
1.Back to Back main events-16 points(no extra for b2b?
2.Auction championship-8 points
3.DC 28 team satellite-8 points
4.DC 3rd place finish-2 points
5.won three satellite league's-24 points
Total-58-points
Again Great work on this....No extra points for winning two main events in a row....???? How about three? Also would my scoring be correct?
Thanks
Johnny
I.W
Johnny Frisella
Johnny Frisella