Sound,
There was a time in fantasy football when we only scored when our player got a touchdown. There was a time when a player got double or triple points for scores over 50 yards. There was a time free agents were first come first serve. There was a time we did not have 3RR or KDS...
Fantasy football, like all competitions, is always a steadily evolving entity. Obviously 7 (teams out of a 14 team league) making the post season is too much (I know you were being sarcastic). There is obviously a proper number and balance that will appeal to the most people. Are you saying this isn't a worthy friendly discussion to have?
Suggestion for next year...
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Captain Hook
- Posts: 1557
- Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:00 pm
Suggestion for next year...
No James what he is saying is that this contest is supposed to be a BLEND of H2H and total points....and it is to a degree with the way the 1st and 2nd teams in each league are determined (almost not completely).
BUT after that everything is points:
- 3rd place team
- Championship Bracket
- Consolation Bracket
If you have a great H2H record but don't win your league outright (if you tie you not only lose a place on total points you can lose 3rd place to total points), you have Nothing to show for it.
I realize there is a lot of luck with many of the H2H records - schedule etc, BUT within the awards for each league and for special circumstances there should be a LITTLE more balance.
BUT after that everything is points:
- 3rd place team
- Championship Bracket
- Consolation Bracket
If you have a great H2H record but don't win your league outright (if you tie you not only lose a place on total points you can lose 3rd place to total points), you have Nothing to show for it.
I realize there is a lot of luck with many of the H2H records - schedule etc, BUT within the awards for each league and for special circumstances there should be a LITTLE more balance.
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
Suggestion for next year...
Originally posted by Sound Advice:
The points police are out in full force today.
Some people will just never get it.
If you are going to weaken head to head every year, why not just make this a points league?
We ALL know the answer to that.
If you are going to add more points teams, then add more head to head teams also.
In 6 years the 6 highest points will make it and the 1 best head to head.
Waivers will be open every day.
Computers will set line ups and draft teams automatically.
People will still whine that the top 7 should make it.
And this place will be a ghost town.
It baffles the mind that Greg and Tom make their livings because of head to head competion, but still dont get it.
It's no different than hearing the guys at espn talk about how stupid FF is.
Eventually you just stop watching.
If adding a third team adds more "value" then adding 9 teams from each league would make it 3 times more valuable. Wow. And we'll have less posts about hyperbole, and more based on statistics and facts that back up sound decisions.
No one is asking for your ridiculous assertions that aren't helping in the process.
I've run 40-50 14-team team leagues since 1988. I understand the dynamics of this league structure as it applies to any set of rules probably better than anyone. I'm a rules consultant on three major projects right now, one of which is my own.
I tossed an idea out here backed up by factual data. There needs to be a tweak.
A few teams that are doing well aren't being rewarded for their hard work when teams that are doing the exact same or even a little worse are being rewarded SIMPLY due to H2H scheduling. That's simply wrong and hurts the long term of the game.
H2H needs to be rewarded. That was the first thing I said in this thread, but the better teams are the ones that score the most points, especially over 13 weeks. We could sit down over beers and I could prove to you that in a 13-week game, points is about 60/40 more important than h2h. Not for a sec should h2h ever be eliminated.
At the end of the day, I see no problem with Greg adding the 3rd place team to the main dance. There are pros and cons, but it really comes down to the fact that most of these teams won't cash anyways, and the ones that do will be the ones that fought tooth and nail to overcome injuries/setbacks via faab and some bad early scores and thus will have earned their due.
Also, in today's economy, it's very wise to add more chances to win.
The points police are out in full force today.
Some people will just never get it.
If you are going to weaken head to head every year, why not just make this a points league?
We ALL know the answer to that.
If you are going to add more points teams, then add more head to head teams also.
In 6 years the 6 highest points will make it and the 1 best head to head.
Waivers will be open every day.
Computers will set line ups and draft teams automatically.
People will still whine that the top 7 should make it.
And this place will be a ghost town.
It baffles the mind that Greg and Tom make their livings because of head to head competion, but still dont get it.
It's no different than hearing the guys at espn talk about how stupid FF is.
Eventually you just stop watching.
If adding a third team adds more "value" then adding 9 teams from each league would make it 3 times more valuable. Wow. And we'll have less posts about hyperbole, and more based on statistics and facts that back up sound decisions.
No one is asking for your ridiculous assertions that aren't helping in the process.
I've run 40-50 14-team team leagues since 1988. I understand the dynamics of this league structure as it applies to any set of rules probably better than anyone. I'm a rules consultant on three major projects right now, one of which is my own.
I tossed an idea out here backed up by factual data. There needs to be a tweak.
A few teams that are doing well aren't being rewarded for their hard work when teams that are doing the exact same or even a little worse are being rewarded SIMPLY due to H2H scheduling. That's simply wrong and hurts the long term of the game.
H2H needs to be rewarded. That was the first thing I said in this thread, but the better teams are the ones that score the most points, especially over 13 weeks. We could sit down over beers and I could prove to you that in a 13-week game, points is about 60/40 more important than h2h. Not for a sec should h2h ever be eliminated.
At the end of the day, I see no problem with Greg adding the 3rd place team to the main dance. There are pros and cons, but it really comes down to the fact that most of these teams won't cash anyways, and the ones that do will be the ones that fought tooth and nail to overcome injuries/setbacks via faab and some bad early scores and thus will have earned their due.
Also, in today's economy, it's very wise to add more chances to win.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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Captain Hook
- Posts: 1557
- Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:00 pm
Suggestion for next year...
Originally posted by JohnZ:
H2H needs to be rewarded. That was the first thing I said in this thread, but the better teams are the ones that score the most points, especially over 13 weeks. We could sit down over beers and I could prove to you that in a 13-week game, points is about 60/40 more important than h2h. Not for a sec should h2h ever be eliminated.
At the end of the day, I see no problem with Greg adding the 3rd place team to the main dance. There are pros and cons, but it really comes down to the fact that most of these teams won't cash anyways, and the ones that do will be the ones that fought tooth and nail to overcome injuries/setbacks via faab and some bad early scores and thus will have earned their due.
Also, in today's economy, it's very wise to add more chances to win. [/QB]John - I certainly agree with those, but I think you are too quick to dismiss other considerations of the contest as it applies to H2H.
For one, Team A goes 11-2 and is fourth in the league in points. It ties for best record with Team B who leads the league in points. So with the current rules, Team A gets NOTHING.
IF the awards structure were tweaked slightly, you could at least SPLIT the H2H part of the award between Teams A & B, so Team A would get $1250 and Team B get $3750. Team C which was second in total points could still get $2500 and a ticket to the big dance. (Whether Team D, third most points, would get 3rd place and $1250 as it currently does, or have a playoff with Team A is a different discussion)
H2H needs to be rewarded. That was the first thing I said in this thread, but the better teams are the ones that score the most points, especially over 13 weeks. We could sit down over beers and I could prove to you that in a 13-week game, points is about 60/40 more important than h2h. Not for a sec should h2h ever be eliminated.
At the end of the day, I see no problem with Greg adding the 3rd place team to the main dance. There are pros and cons, but it really comes down to the fact that most of these teams won't cash anyways, and the ones that do will be the ones that fought tooth and nail to overcome injuries/setbacks via faab and some bad early scores and thus will have earned their due.
Also, in today's economy, it's very wise to add more chances to win. [/QB]John - I certainly agree with those, but I think you are too quick to dismiss other considerations of the contest as it applies to H2H.
For one, Team A goes 11-2 and is fourth in the league in points. It ties for best record with Team B who leads the league in points. So with the current rules, Team A gets NOTHING.
IF the awards structure were tweaked slightly, you could at least SPLIT the H2H part of the award between Teams A & B, so Team A would get $1250 and Team B get $3750. Team C which was second in total points could still get $2500 and a ticket to the big dance. (Whether Team D, third most points, would get 3rd place and $1250 as it currently does, or have a playoff with Team A is a different discussion)
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
Suggestion for next year...
Greg,
What do you think of this plan?
Top 3 per league as you described win 1st,2nd,3rd league prizes and make final dance.
Add: Instead of 10% rule, anyone in Top 66 makes final dance. (This would be Top 75 if 25 leagues, 81 if 27 leagues, etc.)
Add: Any team 10-3 or higher also makes the final dance, even if they don't finish 1-3 in their league.
This is fair to both camps, is easy to explain and market.
What do you think of this plan?
Top 3 per league as you described win 1st,2nd,3rd league prizes and make final dance.
Add: Instead of 10% rule, anyone in Top 66 makes final dance. (This would be Top 75 if 25 leagues, 81 if 27 leagues, etc.)
Add: Any team 10-3 or higher also makes the final dance, even if they don't finish 1-3 in their league.
This is fair to both camps, is easy to explain and market.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
Suggestion for next year...
Originally posted by Captain Hook:
No James what he is saying is that this contest is supposed to be a BLEND of H2H and total points....and it is to a degree with the way the 1st and 2nd teams in each league are determined (almost not completely).
BUT after that everything is points:
- 3rd place team
- Championship Bracket
- Consolation Bracket
If you have a great H2H record but don't win your league outright (if you tie you not only lose a place on total points you can lose 3rd place to total points), you have Nothing to show for it.
I realize there is a lot of luck with many of the H2H records - schedule etc, BUT within the awards for each league and for special circumstances there should be a LITTLE more balance. I was talking more about the tone of his post. It sounded like he was mocking the idea of discussing change. That is how it came off to me (as well as johnZ based on his reply). I simply think this is a worthy discussion to have to continue to improve the event.
[ December 04, 2008, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Renman ]
No James what he is saying is that this contest is supposed to be a BLEND of H2H and total points....and it is to a degree with the way the 1st and 2nd teams in each league are determined (almost not completely).
BUT after that everything is points:
- 3rd place team
- Championship Bracket
- Consolation Bracket
If you have a great H2H record but don't win your league outright (if you tie you not only lose a place on total points you can lose 3rd place to total points), you have Nothing to show for it.
I realize there is a lot of luck with many of the H2H records - schedule etc, BUT within the awards for each league and for special circumstances there should be a LITTLE more balance. I was talking more about the tone of his post. It sounded like he was mocking the idea of discussing change. That is how it came off to me (as well as johnZ based on his reply). I simply think this is a worthy discussion to have to continue to improve the event.
[ December 04, 2008, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Renman ]
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
Suggestion for next year...
Originally posted by GK:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
Greg,
What do you think of this plan?
Top 3 per league as you described win 1st,2nd,3rd league prizes and make final dance.
Add: Instead of 10% rule, anyone in Top 66 makes final dance. (This would be Top 75 if 25 leagues, 81 if 27 leagues, etc.)
Add: Any team 10-3 or higher also makes the final dance, even if they don't finish 1-3 in their league.
This is fair to both camps, is easy to explain and market. ...this is a recently started thread which is suggesting potential, and rather significant changes, and making any decision at this point in time would be a tad too hasty for SNAKEtastes...ISHO The PTB (Powers That Be) should allow the many voices here (at this point in time it's only been a select few) to expand so that the diverse ideas are allowed to brew and simmer before they are finallly tasted...there is no rush here as last SNAKE heard there is still an EXCITING three week playoff to be played out and an entire off-season of too much time on a FF fanatic's hands to even begin to contemplate...SNAKE [/QUOTE]Glenn, this is a discussion. No one is asking for any decisions now. I posted another alternative because Capt's point has some merit. Greg's never rushed into anything and I doubt he will here.
If you have a suggestion, please do input.
I can handle this thread and my three-week playoff with RT at the same time.
My apologies for posting on your board.
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
Greg,
What do you think of this plan?
Top 3 per league as you described win 1st,2nd,3rd league prizes and make final dance.
Add: Instead of 10% rule, anyone in Top 66 makes final dance. (This would be Top 75 if 25 leagues, 81 if 27 leagues, etc.)
Add: Any team 10-3 or higher also makes the final dance, even if they don't finish 1-3 in their league.
This is fair to both camps, is easy to explain and market. ...this is a recently started thread which is suggesting potential, and rather significant changes, and making any decision at this point in time would be a tad too hasty for SNAKEtastes...ISHO The PTB (Powers That Be) should allow the many voices here (at this point in time it's only been a select few) to expand so that the diverse ideas are allowed to brew and simmer before they are finallly tasted...there is no rush here as last SNAKE heard there is still an EXCITING three week playoff to be played out and an entire off-season of too much time on a FF fanatic's hands to even begin to contemplate...SNAKE [/QUOTE]Glenn, this is a discussion. No one is asking for any decisions now. I posted another alternative because Capt's point has some merit. Greg's never rushed into anything and I doubt he will here.
If you have a suggestion, please do input.
I can handle this thread and my three-week playoff with RT at the same time.
My apologies for posting on your board.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
Suggestion for next year...
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I will state that I too have been concerned about teams that finish second in total points being left out of the Championship Round because a h2h record lower than second beat that team out. It's happened before and I knew it happened in a handful of times this year, too. As John points out, three teams probably have a legitimate reason why they should be in the Championship Round this year.
I've given this a lot of thought in the last month and I'm seriously considering expanding the Championship Round to include three teams from each league, especially in the NFFC Classic. This year that would have allowed 66 teams in the Championship Round -- only 18 more than we have now and only 15 more than what John is proposing here. To me, it would add more value and it would keep more teams fighting to the bitter end with the hope of not only getting their money back for third place but also having a shot at the $100,000 grand prize.
This would basically eliminate the need for the wild card that we have (although we can keep it in place) and give more reward to the example John noted. I feel we already have a complicated enough league playoff system and I am not in favor of changing that to add a third team. H2H and total points champions would still each receive $2,500 with the chance to win another $2,500. The third place team in this example has the chance to earn an additional $100,000 and was already beaten out by the total points champ and h2h champ. You're punishing the total points champ by throwing him into a three-way league playoff setup for the remaining $2,500. With three teams getting in from each league, that's still only 21.4% compared to 15.6% now.
Adding a third league playoff team in the NFFC Primetime also adds value in that contest because now instead of just winning $700 you also have a shot at the $100,000 grand prize. I'm still looking for feedback on that one, however.
So that's what I'm thinking about for 2009 and I'll start a separate thread and rules changes ideas soon. Adding language to address a canceled game and the FAAB deadline will also be in that thread. Hope this helps clarify my position. %=$=players=$= The more the players the bigger the payouts, the better the odds the more the players. How can you argue with that.
John
[ December 04, 2008, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Raiders ]
I will state that I too have been concerned about teams that finish second in total points being left out of the Championship Round because a h2h record lower than second beat that team out. It's happened before and I knew it happened in a handful of times this year, too. As John points out, three teams probably have a legitimate reason why they should be in the Championship Round this year.
I've given this a lot of thought in the last month and I'm seriously considering expanding the Championship Round to include three teams from each league, especially in the NFFC Classic. This year that would have allowed 66 teams in the Championship Round -- only 18 more than we have now and only 15 more than what John is proposing here. To me, it would add more value and it would keep more teams fighting to the bitter end with the hope of not only getting their money back for third place but also having a shot at the $100,000 grand prize.
This would basically eliminate the need for the wild card that we have (although we can keep it in place) and give more reward to the example John noted. I feel we already have a complicated enough league playoff system and I am not in favor of changing that to add a third team. H2H and total points champions would still each receive $2,500 with the chance to win another $2,500. The third place team in this example has the chance to earn an additional $100,000 and was already beaten out by the total points champ and h2h champ. You're punishing the total points champ by throwing him into a three-way league playoff setup for the remaining $2,500. With three teams getting in from each league, that's still only 21.4% compared to 15.6% now.
Adding a third league playoff team in the NFFC Primetime also adds value in that contest because now instead of just winning $700 you also have a shot at the $100,000 grand prize. I'm still looking for feedback on that one, however.
So that's what I'm thinking about for 2009 and I'll start a separate thread and rules changes ideas soon. Adding language to address a canceled game and the FAAB deadline will also be in that thread. Hope this helps clarify my position. %=$=players=$=
The more the players the bigger the payouts, the better the odds the more the players. How can you argue with that.John
[ December 04, 2008, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Raiders ]