WR vs RB in Flex
WR vs RB in Flex
we thought it was 3 of top 6's but 6/8 what is the difference really 10 pts for the year? We rated d. mason high because with a RB that will get more then the E. George 3.0 YPC this year that will keep opposing d's honest to the run, thus giving Mason more room.
WR vs RB in Flex
Agreed - I like Mason a lot - except for he's a little small and has had some injuries in the past. If you can live with him being listed as questionable every week, you should be happy!
And, I feel like we got 3 Top 10 WR's, including R. Moss. As long as Coles' toe holds up (we got him in the 6th round!), and A. Johnson is as good as I think he is - he's huge and fast (Owens-esque), Hou now has a good OL to protect Carr. I'm pleased, too. And, heck, Brandon Lloyd could be huge - I'm psyched to have him as #4 WR.
And, I feel like we got 3 Top 10 WR's, including R. Moss. As long as Coles' toe holds up (we got him in the 6th round!), and A. Johnson is as good as I think he is - he's huge and fast (Owens-esque), Hou now has a good OL to protect Carr. I'm pleased, too. And, heck, Brandon Lloyd could be huge - I'm psyched to have him as #4 WR.
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David Wooderson
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:00 pm
WR vs RB in Flex
Originally posted by Nag':
As Ico stated, the question isn't RB vs. WR for the flex. It's when to draft them? Nag, I dont mean to keep singling out your posts, but I know that you know your stuff and I like debating the RB vs WR issues with you because you make alot of valid points rather than just making claims like some others do.
I agree with the statement above and that's why I dont think anyone can simply say that 3RB vs. 2 RB/1 WR over the first 3 rounds is better or worse. "IT'S WHEN TO DRAFT THEM" is the operative phrase and I completely agree with that. You cant just take a 3rd RB for the hell of it in the 3rd round, or even in the 2nd round for that matter. It's gotta be one that is going to be a difference maker and score points for you.
If Player X isnt much better than player Z who you can get 3 or 4 rounds later, than Id move down and take a WR, but if one of the guys you target pre draft is there for you in the 3rd rd, that you feel is going to be a difference maker, and you take him, then the 3 RB strategy is much more valid than just taking any 3 Rbs.
As a participant of the WCOFF the last 2 seasons, I feel I have some grounds to base my arguments on. Last year, I started 2RBs/4WRs half the games en route to finishing the season as the 25th overall regular season scorer (out of 600). What does this prove... probably nothing, BUT if you consider that both myself AND the 2003 WCOFF Champion drafted RB/WR/WR/TE with the first 4 picks last year, I think the RB/RB/RB theorists should stop and reevaluate for just one more minute. And also keep in mind that the WCOFF scores 1pt/rec for running backs, which makes the RB even more valuable!From a different perspective using the same game, we finished 5th in the WCOFF during the regular season and in the top 20 overall during the first year under the team Hammer and Midlife's Greatest Hits, and then last year we played in the Draft under the name Fantasy Jungle.com and finished 3rd overall. We went RB/RB/RB each time.
Last week, we ended up doing it again here. We had the 12th pick in one of the Chicago leagues and were hoping to bang out Gonzo in the 3rd, but surprisingly, he went 16th overall. We went J Lewis, Taylor who shockingly was still there at 17, and then Curtis Martin because he was one of the few guys who we thought was worthy of a pick that late in the 3rd if he was still there, because we just like him this year. Had he been gone, we would have drafted a WR.
After that we took Moulds, Vick, Bruce, Lloyd, McMichael, and Driver. For the most of the rest of the draft, we tried to grab other wideouts who may become viable ths year that we could play as a 3rd wr or at a flex as a 4th wr.
Its not that we plan it that way either, we always go in with several ways the draft could go, and adjust based on who is on and off the board. I dont think you can say that 3 Rb is a bad strategy, its just a tougher one to pull off because your choices of backs in the 3rd round are limited, however there are a few backs every year that end up being good.
But instead of more hot air, I'll put my money where my mouth is.
I'm willing to wager right now, before the season starts, that of the 42 teams to make the playoffs, the percentage of teams who didn't draft a WR in the first 3 rounds will be less tha the percentage of those who did!
Anyone what to take that bet? Name your stakes. I accept! This is a complete sucker bet and anyone who takes it is insane, because the percentage of people who even take 3 RB's is alot smaller than anyone who takes a WR.
I agree with alot of things that you guys say, but you cant just say that 3 RB is wrong, in my opinion. Some of these wideouts better have some serious ballsout years this year, or people that are stuck with guys like Minor and company as their starters, arent going to be a factor. I just think that after Moss, nobody is a lock at wr to put up numbers that overwhelm the field at their position.
As Ico stated, the question isn't RB vs. WR for the flex. It's when to draft them? Nag, I dont mean to keep singling out your posts, but I know that you know your stuff and I like debating the RB vs WR issues with you because you make alot of valid points rather than just making claims like some others do.
I agree with the statement above and that's why I dont think anyone can simply say that 3RB vs. 2 RB/1 WR over the first 3 rounds is better or worse. "IT'S WHEN TO DRAFT THEM" is the operative phrase and I completely agree with that. You cant just take a 3rd RB for the hell of it in the 3rd round, or even in the 2nd round for that matter. It's gotta be one that is going to be a difference maker and score points for you.
If Player X isnt much better than player Z who you can get 3 or 4 rounds later, than Id move down and take a WR, but if one of the guys you target pre draft is there for you in the 3rd rd, that you feel is going to be a difference maker, and you take him, then the 3 RB strategy is much more valid than just taking any 3 Rbs.
As a participant of the WCOFF the last 2 seasons, I feel I have some grounds to base my arguments on. Last year, I started 2RBs/4WRs half the games en route to finishing the season as the 25th overall regular season scorer (out of 600). What does this prove... probably nothing, BUT if you consider that both myself AND the 2003 WCOFF Champion drafted RB/WR/WR/TE with the first 4 picks last year, I think the RB/RB/RB theorists should stop and reevaluate for just one more minute. And also keep in mind that the WCOFF scores 1pt/rec for running backs, which makes the RB even more valuable!From a different perspective using the same game, we finished 5th in the WCOFF during the regular season and in the top 20 overall during the first year under the team Hammer and Midlife's Greatest Hits, and then last year we played in the Draft under the name Fantasy Jungle.com and finished 3rd overall. We went RB/RB/RB each time.
Last week, we ended up doing it again here. We had the 12th pick in one of the Chicago leagues and were hoping to bang out Gonzo in the 3rd, but surprisingly, he went 16th overall. We went J Lewis, Taylor who shockingly was still there at 17, and then Curtis Martin because he was one of the few guys who we thought was worthy of a pick that late in the 3rd if he was still there, because we just like him this year. Had he been gone, we would have drafted a WR.
After that we took Moulds, Vick, Bruce, Lloyd, McMichael, and Driver. For the most of the rest of the draft, we tried to grab other wideouts who may become viable ths year that we could play as a 3rd wr or at a flex as a 4th wr.
Its not that we plan it that way either, we always go in with several ways the draft could go, and adjust based on who is on and off the board. I dont think you can say that 3 Rb is a bad strategy, its just a tougher one to pull off because your choices of backs in the 3rd round are limited, however there are a few backs every year that end up being good.
But instead of more hot air, I'll put my money where my mouth is.
I'm willing to wager right now, before the season starts, that of the 42 teams to make the playoffs, the percentage of teams who didn't draft a WR in the first 3 rounds will be less tha the percentage of those who did!
Anyone what to take that bet? Name your stakes. I accept! This is a complete sucker bet and anyone who takes it is insane, because the percentage of people who even take 3 RB's is alot smaller than anyone who takes a WR.
I agree with alot of things that you guys say, but you cant just say that 3 RB is wrong, in my opinion. Some of these wideouts better have some serious ballsout years this year, or people that are stuck with guys like Minor and company as their starters, arent going to be a factor. I just think that after Moss, nobody is a lock at wr to put up numbers that overwhelm the field at their position.
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dgamblnman
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:00 pm
WR vs RB in Flex
There is one problem with the 28,42 debate. Of the WRs, even though they scored more, you had to catch them on the right week. A 42 WR will have 2, maybe 3 very good weeks, the other times, nothing. A 28 RB will be consistant thoughtout the season, and you have more of a chance of sitting a big scoring WR on the bench than a RB.
Your WR will score huge (IE- Quincy Morgan 2 years ago) the first week, everyone picks him or or decides to start him, he didn't do much after that.
Your WR will score huge (IE- Quincy Morgan 2 years ago) the first week, everyone picks him or or decides to start him, he didn't do much after that.
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Route Collectors
- Posts: 3525
- Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:00 pm
WR vs RB in Flex
David
I think a number of us are saying the same thing from different angles. ICO said it best and it seems you agree, as do I. The "when to draft them" statement is all about value which I hope anyone throwing out 1250 bones understands.
The debate is really with guys who chose to draft RB's like S.Jackson in the 3rd (or players at that level) instead of getting an A.Johnson or S.Moss. Yes this actually happened in Chicago3.
RB paranoia is what confuses me because owners were compromising their overall team just to start with 3 RB's.
I'll take 3 T-Bones over 3 burgers anyday but if one of the steaks is rotton - give me the burger!
I think a number of us are saying the same thing from different angles. ICO said it best and it seems you agree, as do I. The "when to draft them" statement is all about value which I hope anyone throwing out 1250 bones understands.
The debate is really with guys who chose to draft RB's like S.Jackson in the 3rd (or players at that level) instead of getting an A.Johnson or S.Moss. Yes this actually happened in Chicago3.
RB paranoia is what confuses me because owners were compromising their overall team just to start with 3 RB's.
I'll take 3 T-Bones over 3 burgers anyday but if one of the steaks is rotton - give me the burger!
WR vs RB in Flex
Originally posted by CMoore:
...As long as Coles' toe holds up (we got him in the 6th round!)...Ok, Chad Johnson dropping into the 3rd round is pretty pathetic, but how does Coles last down to the friken SIXTH round!!??
...As long as Coles' toe holds up (we got him in the 6th round!)...Ok, Chad Johnson dropping into the 3rd round is pretty pathetic, but how does Coles last down to the friken SIXTH round!!??
For Players. By Players.
WR vs RB in Flex
in case anyone cared for my opinion...lol
the main point of the RB, RB, RB approach (which i entered the draft seriously considering) is that we start 2 RB's every week. in a 14 team league thats 28 RB's started every week... leaving only 4 other NFL starting RB's. so think about how many teams will be starting an unproductive RB during bye weeks OR in the event of an injury to one of their starters...
i never go into a draft with any pre set solid plans because each draft has it's own life. i had the 1st pick in new york league 5. i took tomlinson (only guy in the room who did, i have my reasons) and was shocked as peyton manning continued to fall as round two was coming back to me. i expected someone to take him but started preparing for the possibility that he might get to me. i never wanted to take a QB early as many other QB's put up good numbers that i could get much later.
but when manning fell to me, i was left with the decision of taking curtis martin (who was the most valuable RB left in my mind) and Q. griffin, t. barber, t. wheatley...
i chose to take the stud QB (pass td's worth 6 makes them more valuable) over the mediocre 3rd RB... and then spent next 4 picks on best wideouts available... my big blunder (bad break to me) was drafting byron chamberlain, who was touted as being in great shape and a possible sleeper in a good TE offense, as my only TE given his bye week was 10 and i had time to pick up a free agent back up as there was no good TE talent left...
obviously he got shockingly released and i am left with NO TE for week one...
all my back up RB's play behind injury or legal question mark RB's.
QB- manning, grossman
RB- tomlinson, c. martin, reno mahe, musa smith, ladel betts
WR-burress, toomer, r.gardner, fitzgerald, a. davis, osgood
TE- chamberlain (ouch)
K- akers, brown
def- carolina, steelers
i am interested in hearing some thoughts on this roster picked from the #1 position by some of the experts... since most of my friends have never played a league deeper then 10 teams...lol
the main point of the RB, RB, RB approach (which i entered the draft seriously considering) is that we start 2 RB's every week. in a 14 team league thats 28 RB's started every week... leaving only 4 other NFL starting RB's. so think about how many teams will be starting an unproductive RB during bye weeks OR in the event of an injury to one of their starters...
i never go into a draft with any pre set solid plans because each draft has it's own life. i had the 1st pick in new york league 5. i took tomlinson (only guy in the room who did, i have my reasons) and was shocked as peyton manning continued to fall as round two was coming back to me. i expected someone to take him but started preparing for the possibility that he might get to me. i never wanted to take a QB early as many other QB's put up good numbers that i could get much later.
but when manning fell to me, i was left with the decision of taking curtis martin (who was the most valuable RB left in my mind) and Q. griffin, t. barber, t. wheatley...
i chose to take the stud QB (pass td's worth 6 makes them more valuable) over the mediocre 3rd RB... and then spent next 4 picks on best wideouts available... my big blunder (bad break to me) was drafting byron chamberlain, who was touted as being in great shape and a possible sleeper in a good TE offense, as my only TE given his bye week was 10 and i had time to pick up a free agent back up as there was no good TE talent left...
obviously he got shockingly released and i am left with NO TE for week one...
all my back up RB's play behind injury or legal question mark RB's.
QB- manning, grossman
RB- tomlinson, c. martin, reno mahe, musa smith, ladel betts
WR-burress, toomer, r.gardner, fitzgerald, a. davis, osgood
TE- chamberlain (ouch)
K- akers, brown
def- carolina, steelers
i am interested in hearing some thoughts on this roster picked from the #1 position by some of the experts... since most of my friends have never played a league deeper then 10 teams...lol
WR vs RB in Flex
Nag', I was absolutely stunned he was still there. We drafted him, and half-expected an eruption of laughter because he'd gotten hurt and we hadn't heard about it or something. I don't love him because of the toe, Brunell doesn't excite me, who knows what Gibbs' offense will do, etc. But, shoot, I'll take him as my #3 WR any day! There were definitely some "interesting" picks in my league, I'll admit it.
WR vs RB in Flex
Originally posted by David Wooderson:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
But instead of more hot air, I'll put my money where my mouth is.
I'm willing to wager right now, before the season starts, that of the 42 teams to make the playoffs, the percentage of teams who didn't draft a WR in the first 3 rounds will be less tha the percentage of those who did!
Anyone what to take that bet? Name your stakes. I accept! This is a complete sucker bet and anyone who takes it is insane, because the percentage of people who even take 3 RB's is alot smaller than anyone who takes a WR. [/QUOTE]I figured someone would misunderstand my offer. Since you expressed interest, let me explain it better. Say there's 100 teams that did NOT draft a WR in the first 3 rounds - call them Teams A. And 124 teams who drafted at least one - Teams B. If 17 Teams A make the playoffs, that's 17%. If 25 Teams B make the playoffs, that's 20%.
Now, does it still sound like a sucker bet. It shouldn't, unless you're still not getting it.
So, do we have a bet??
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
But instead of more hot air, I'll put my money where my mouth is.
I'm willing to wager right now, before the season starts, that of the 42 teams to make the playoffs, the percentage of teams who didn't draft a WR in the first 3 rounds will be less tha the percentage of those who did!
Anyone what to take that bet? Name your stakes. I accept! This is a complete sucker bet and anyone who takes it is insane, because the percentage of people who even take 3 RB's is alot smaller than anyone who takes a WR. [/QUOTE]I figured someone would misunderstand my offer. Since you expressed interest, let me explain it better. Say there's 100 teams that did NOT draft a WR in the first 3 rounds - call them Teams A. And 124 teams who drafted at least one - Teams B. If 17 Teams A make the playoffs, that's 17%. If 25 Teams B make the playoffs, that's 20%.
Now, does it still sound like a sucker bet. It shouldn't, unless you're still not getting it.
So, do we have a bet??
For Players. By Players.
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David Wooderson
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:00 pm
WR vs RB in Flex
I understood it the first time but it falls back to the whole theme of the "when to draft them" point. If you read my post, you would have comprehended that I was agreeing with some of what you had to say. My whole point was I think that 3 RBs works, as long as you take the right 3, not that 3 rb's always works better than other combos.
You've been in enough of these things to know not to put your faith in people that draft 3 rb's just for the sake of drafting 3 rb's. And even if they do draft 3 good ones, the bet still could become a crapshoot because I dont know what they did with their next 3 picks. And believe me, the Chicago drafts were f'd up. Buckhalter and Shipp went off the board in the 8th.
I think it would be interesting to see the results of how teams look at the end of the year. Like lets say a team goes Moss, Rudi Johnson, and Westbrook. Then a guy like '03 Domanick Davis comes out of the f/a pool and becomes a first round back point producer. You are back to getting your 3 backs, but this way you have still gotten atleast 1 stud wr. I still think thats the most popular way the majority of teams achieve success. Its just that you cant predict always who those guys are. I don't have data to back that up, it just seems like it. It would be interesting to see.
What spot are you drafting out of Saturday? Good luck, it should be alot of fun.
You've been in enough of these things to know not to put your faith in people that draft 3 rb's just for the sake of drafting 3 rb's. And even if they do draft 3 good ones, the bet still could become a crapshoot because I dont know what they did with their next 3 picks. And believe me, the Chicago drafts were f'd up. Buckhalter and Shipp went off the board in the 8th.
I think it would be interesting to see the results of how teams look at the end of the year. Like lets say a team goes Moss, Rudi Johnson, and Westbrook. Then a guy like '03 Domanick Davis comes out of the f/a pool and becomes a first round back point producer. You are back to getting your 3 backs, but this way you have still gotten atleast 1 stud wr. I still think thats the most popular way the majority of teams achieve success. Its just that you cant predict always who those guys are. I don't have data to back that up, it just seems like it. It would be interesting to see.
What spot are you drafting out of Saturday? Good luck, it should be alot of fun.