NFL Lockout Thread

Erok · Post by **Erok** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:01 am

I find it amazing that this judge has a vacation scheduled!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Real urgency there.

About as much urgency that everyone took off for the holiday weekend too last week. Priceless.

This whole situation continues to amaze me.

They keep saying "making progress" too. It is getting a bit late for that. This needs finalized. I want to hear we are finalizing the deal, not making progress. April and May is when they shouldve been "making progress."

Erok · Post by **Erok** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:06 am

IMO there is no way whatsoever that the Hall of Fame game gets played on time either. Too late to save that. It may get pushed back, but no way it gets played on time.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:16 am

The Bears and Rams are playing in the Hall of Fame game. They are scheduled to open training camp on July 23. With no deal expected until next week I think it's going to be very difficult for those teams to begin on time.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:26 am

The 8th Circuit has just ruled that the lockout is legal. The timing is a bit interesting but the ruling is no surprise. The owners have been in a position of power all along but now they really hold the hammer. Will they use it to try and get an even better deal or will common sense finally be applied and both sides work aggressively toward the best deal possible.

Common sense? What a novel concept that would be.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:49 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
The 8th Circuit has just ruled that the lockout is legal. The timing is a bit interesting but the ruling is no surprise. The owners have been in a position of power all along but now they really hold the hammer. Will they use it to try and get an even better deal or will common sense finally be applied and both sides work aggressively toward the best deal possible.

Common sense? What a novel concept that would be. The ruling isn't surprising, but the timing sure is. By a 2-1 vote -- as expected -- the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals says that the owners legally locked out the players. That was expected. But knowing that both sides were negotiating in good faith now, couldn't they have waited to announce this ruling? It seems to be giving the owners a sledgehammer when both sides were building a new house.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:56 am

Perhaps the most significant news with today's ruling is that the 8th Circuit ruled the lockout does not extend to players who are not under contract. In other words, free agency could begin today. That certainly would expedite the process considerably in terms of enabling teams to be completely ready for the start of training camp should a deal be struck by the end of next week.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:17 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Perhaps the most significant news with today's ruling is that the 8th Circuit ruled the lockout does not extend to players who are not under contract. In other words, free agency could begin today. That certainly would expedite the process considerably in terms of enabling teams to be completely ready for the start of training camp should a deal be struck by the end of next week. That would be great, but it's hard to believe the teams could sign players ahead of knowing what the terms of a CBA are or even what the salary cap will be. But it will be fun to watch this scenario.

Here's ESPN.com's latest update on the ruling and the lockout:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6748753

The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis has thrown out a judge's order lifting the NFL lockout, handing the league a victory in a labor stoppage that has reached its 115th day.

The appellate court issued its decision Friday, even as the league and its locked-out players continue negotiations in New York intended to strike a new collective bargaining agreement and start the 2011 season on time. The first preseason game is scheduled for Aug. 7, less than a month away.

The appellate court ruled on an April 25 decision by U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson, who put the lockout on hold after players argued they were suffering irreparable harm. The appeals court put that order on hold and its final decision said Nelson ignored federal law in reaching her decision.

The court's decision came while commissioner Roger Goodell and NFL Players Association chief DeMaurice Smith started a second straight day of negotiations aimed toward resolving the lockout.

Owners and players are getting closer to reaching an agreement on the all-important revenue split, sources told ESPN. That's the good news, but there is bad news -- there's still a lot of work to be done on the new parameters of free agency, particularly whether teams will be allowed the right of first refusal on up to three of their free agents.

Such a scenario could affect some big names -- Joseph Addai, Antonio Cromartie, Santonio Holmes, DeAngelo Williams -- with big money at stake. According to one participant who was on a player conference call Thursday night with Smith, Smith told the players: "We are close, but we've got work to do and I'm not signing this until you guys are taken care of."

Negotiations Thursday stretched on for more than 12 hours, deep into the evening. The plaintiffs in the Tom Brady vs. NFL case participated in the call to be update on the status of labor negotiations, particularly the framework for a new collective bargaining agreement.

All of the details in a new CBA have not been worked out, but the call was designed to give the plaintiffs a clear idea of where the agreement is headed so that they can make an informed decision about the anti-trust lawsuit which must be settled in federal court prior to the CBA taking effect, a league source told ESPN. An absolute core issue in the discussions between owners and players is the jurisdictional oversight of any agreement. As The New York Times reported Friday, the players want a class-action settlement, which would provide them with the same jurisdictional oversight of this agreement as was the case in the post-1993 Reggie White case.

Even with an arbitration system, final appeals of grievances and disputes went to Judge David Doty in Minneapolis. In this situation, the players want those issues decided by Judge Susan Nelson, who has the current antitrust case.

The issue will be a signficant hurdle, based on what has been stated by both sides in the negotiations. Owners want a strict arbitration system with no federal court oversight.

Some training camps are set to open in less than three weeks. The preseason begins with the Pro Football Hall of Fame inductions and Hall of Fame Game in Canton, Ohio, on Aug. 7 between the St. Louis Rams and Chicago Bears.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:21 am

Good point by Chris Mortenson in a recent Tweet:

"Again, 8th Cicruit ruling not a total victory for owners. The antitrust case/damages lingers in this ruling, so leaves motive for settlement"

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:21 am

Looks like the earlier reports that the lockout did not extend to unsigned players wasn't correct. The ruling kicked that matter back to Judge Nelson who could make a ruling.

In other words, it's still a mess.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:43 am

Great review by Andrew Brandt:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The ... inues.html

With the inexorable march of time continuing through the negotiations between the NFL and the NFLPA, I constantly am asked the questions: “Are they close?” and “What is going on in there?”

Talks lasted deep into the night at a Manhattan law office last night (first-year associates there looked up from their books and said, “Welcome to our world.”)

While the details are certainly kept quiet, here are some things that are happening:

* Tuesday and Wednesday were productive days between NFL and NFLPA officials and lawyers as they hammered out potential language and frameworks for a potential deal. When the two sides do reach a final agreement on this deal, there will be a lot to put into motion, as Brady v. NFL will need to be settled and the NFLPA re-formed as a union. Having language and mechanics of the deal in place will be key, especially since the Owners would like to have the full CBA document ready and available for teams’ use as early as possible.
* Thursday was certainly a long day with some progress, though not the progress we are all hoping for. I was told things like “There’s still a lot of work to do” and “Things are OK, not great.” Although the sides were in the building together for 12 hours, a good amount of that time was spent caucusing among their respective group rather than meeting with the opposing side. We’ll see what Friday brings.
* The sides are discussing an elongated CBA to last up to ten years. That is good news for all, as we will not be dealing with these labor pains again for quite a while.
* The big issue – how to split $9.3 billion in revenue presently and many more future billions – is moving towards resolution, as the Players’ request for simplification of the system appears to be on track. While we don’t know the exact percentages, the percentages appear to be taken from the entire pot of revenue without setoffs and credits taken off the top. Simply put, the Players are adamant about not taking less than they received in the last year of the Cap -- 2009 -- or about $4.65 billion.
* Although both sides agree that rookies at the top of the Draft will be the sacrificial lambs of this deal, there is considerable wrangling over the details of rookie pay. Rounds 2-7 are not the issue; the first round is. Owners want five-year deals and little negotiation or guarantees; Players want four-year deals with negotiation of upside and at least injury guarantees. We'll see.
* The Owners’ continue in their quest to have a couple of Right of First Refusals (ROFR) on the upcoming group of free agents. This, of course, is resisted mightily by the Players, especially after the Owners had that right on hundreds of players in 2010 due to the uncapped year and no free agency for players in their fourth and fifth years. Of course, things could change if the Owners “buy” that right with a concession elsewhere. Everything right now, of course, is negotiable.
* The Owners’ demand that there be no judicial oversight in the next CBA – as there was in the past one from Judge Doty – appears to be acceptable. I wouldn’t be surprised if mediator Arthur Boylan has a continuing role as a potential arbitrator under the new system.
* The battle over how much money goes to retired players and from what source continues. Everyone agrees that former players should receive more than they do, and future former players (current players) should receive more than they do, but as before, the devil’s in the details.

I know I sound like a broken record, but always remember: (1) this is a negotiation, nothing more, nothing less; and (2) nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to, meaning that everything is still on the table.

Does optimism still reign and hope still float? Yes, as long as we trust the process and the people involved. Economic harm – the great motivator – is looming for both sides, with the July 15th date – one week from today – becoming increasingly important to set off a chain of events for a full 2011 preseason and season.