FAAB: D.Ward $995

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:23 am

Originally posted by UFS:
You can not list every nuance or problem that comes up in the rules. No one would ever play. There are dozens and dozens of rulings that need to be made very year and the Commish needs this leeway, because as soon as you start defining these nuances, it will come back to bite the NFFC in the ass, as nothing can cover it all except for "ALL DROPS", and "ALL DECISIONS"

Take that away from the commish and chaos would rule everyday. Great point, UFS. Here's a story from the WCOFF to illustrate that point:

The main event for the WCOFF was one week ago, on September 8th. My league's rosters were not loaded until the afternoon of September 10th. I checked my roster, and everything seemed fine. Case in point: the WCOFF rules include the following passage:

, it looks liek they were written to cover almost every possible nuance so as to cover themselves

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:25 am

Originally posted by Hard heads:
You can not list every nuance or problem that comes up in the rules.

Agreed with that, but what you can do is make it easy on Greg and state that all transactions are final unless an error by the stat service can be determined and then it is up to the commissioner to rule on the situation. When an owner is given three chences to verify a move I hate to say it he should have to live with his mistake. I don't have a real issue with what Greg ruled on and how he ruled, but to say this can't be covered is wrong. A transaction is a transaction and that should be final so long as it is stated in the rules that way. Again I am in favor of the decision, but it can be covered very easily. Human error is just that, oops I screwed up I live with that decision. A Stats Inc error, well that is another thing. This goes into listing every nuance.

How many times has this happened in the past?

This is covered in the way the rules are already written. No need to muddy them up and create more confusion.

Heck, the ONE nuance listed in that rule has already created confusion in this thread until baggar cleared it up.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:27 am

Originally posted by UFS:
quote:Originally posted by Hard heads:
you may want to clearly state it in the rules. "All drops are also subject to review by the commissioner of the NFFC"

done

" In the case of a "star" player being dropped in a league for a valid reason,the NFFC commissioner does reserve the right to allow the cut but keep the player out of that league's free agent listing for any length of time, possibly the entire season."

He wasn't dropped for a valid reason. This does not apply.

" All decisions by the NFFC commissioner will be final."

done

Seems pretty clear to me. [/QUOTE]Being totally neutral here...

UFS's simple approach to this quoted rule is not correct. (IMO)

This rule covers removing from the FA pool any "star" player dropped. Valid or not, nowhere does it say the drop would be reversed if deemed human error.

By tagging on "All decisions by the NFFC commissioner will be final." at the end of this rule simply states that once the stated rule has been correctly followed...it will be final.

That's why it could use better wording.

~Lance

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:29 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Hard heads:
You can not list every nuance or problem that comes up in the rules.

Agreed with that, but what you can do is make it easy on Greg and state that all transactions are final unless an error by the stat service can be determined and then it is up to the commissioner to rule on the situation. When an owner is given three chences to verify a move I hate to say it he should have to live with his mistake. I don't have a real issue with what Greg ruled on and how he ruled, but to say this can't be covered is wrong. A transaction is a transaction and that should be final so long as it is stated in the rules that way. Again I am in favor of the decision, but it can be covered very easily. Human error is just that, oops I screwed up I live with that decision. A Stats Inc error, well that is another thing. That is certainly one way to look at it.

Here's another human error example: Roy Williams was drafted in a Las Vegas League. The facilitator put Roydell Williams' sticker on the small board. The owner signed off on it. Lineups were entered properly by our staff and lineups were due for Week 1. The owner called to say he never drafted Roydell Williams and needs Roy Williams in his lineup. I look at the board and see the signature. Do I take Roy out of the league?? Do I make a common sense decision on my own?? Do I fault the owner who drafted him and punish him??

This might be hypothetical, but it's another human error, partly on the owner's fault. I guess I need to add that to the rules, too. [/QUOTE]I bet Greg and I can come up with enough of these to get through 2-3 cases of Coronas

Hard heads · Post by **Hard heads** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:30 am

Tough call on the Roydel Williams thing. I guess common sense says any fool, Rich not included(just kidding Rich) would not draft Roydel Williams in the 2nd or 3rd round, so I guess that is a commissiner call.
I see your point and I hope you see mine and don't think I am nitpicking you here Greg. All I am saying is when certain circumstances that are new arise it is a perfect opportunity to streamline the rules to cover your ass for future instances is all. Nobody forsees anything like the two examples happening, but when they do, that is then your opportunity to make it right by writing the rules to cover the precedent you have now set. This is to cover yourself from the Blue_Foots of the world of course, because they are out there.

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:30 am

Originally posted by FI$HER:
quote:Originally posted by Raiders:
quote:Originally posted by FI$HER:
Riff...

the one good thing from this situation is that the error was with a bona-fide stud top 5 WR. If this happened with a different WR, who lets say is on the fence in regard to perceived value to NFFC and scoring, then this thread would be another 30 pages before it was done.

For example, lets say a player like Brandon Marshall, Wes Welker , etc. who had decent week one scoring, but no long term NFL successful track record like S. Smith.....then this whole thing woulda been a nightmare... You had to go there. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]On the flip side, if it was not a player of S. Smith's caliber...then I would not have the same view point and opinion as I did.

[/QUOTE]So where do you draw the line?? At what rank does the "forgiveness" end?? A rule is a rule, this is a contest...if you select the wrong player, it's your fault whether it's a 1st round pick or a 15th rounder. Nothing unethical or unfair about this.

Say I picked up Ricky Williams this weeks, but meant to pick up Ricky Williams of the Dolphins, not the Colts...would I receive a pass since I obviously wanted the one from the Phins??

How can Greg ever rule against another owner who experiences the same type of fiasco?? A precedent was set today that could lead to problems down the road.

Sure I know Dunn didn't meant to drop Smith, but from what I've read he DID drop Smith so I don't see how everyone can say he should be placed back on his team.

Hard heads · Post by **Hard heads** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:35 am

UFS,
I guess we will just agree to disagree here. I see a way to make things easier by working on some simple wording and you see it as adding more confusiuonto it. As I said in my last post to Greg, yeah you can't see into the future, but when something arises and there is some question in how it is handled, do you try and fix it by covering yourself for future instances, or do you just use the Commissioner's decision is final and hope nobody has issue with it and let it go?

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:35 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
quote:Originally posted by UFS:
quote:Originally posted by Hard heads:
you may want to clearly state it in the rules. "All drops are also subject to review by the commissioner of the NFFC"

done

" In the case of a "star" player being dropped in a league for a valid reason,the NFFC commissioner does reserve the right to allow the cut but keep the player out of that league's free agent listing for any length of time, possibly the entire season."

He wasn't dropped for a valid reason. This does not apply.

" All decisions by the NFFC commissioner will be final."

done

Seems pretty clear to me. [/QUOTE]Being totally neutral here...

UFS's simple approach to this quoted rule is not correct. (IMO)

This rule covers removing from the FA pool any "star" player dropped. Valid or not, nowhere does it say the drop would be reversed if deemed human error.

By tagging on "All decisions by the NFFC commissioner will be final." at the end of this rule simply states that once the stated rule has been correctly followed...it will be final.

That's why it could use better wording.

~Lance [/QUOTE]Lance, you haven't even read the rule.

If you did, you'd see the ONLY things that apply in that paragraph are the things I already posted on.

All decisions are final refers to human error, or ANY other nuance not listed in the rule.

Hard heads · Post by **Hard heads** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:36 am

btw Greg, I think this is a nice healthy discussion that would never have lasted more then Blue_Foots second post elsewhere. Kudos to you for sticking to it and discussing it.

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:38 am

Originally posted by Hard heads:
UFS,
I guess we will just agree to disagree here. I see a way to make things easier by working on some simple wording and you see it as adding more confusiuonto it. As I said in my last post to Greg, yeah you can't see into the future, but when something arises and there is some question in how it is handled, do you try and fix it by covering yourself for future instances, or do you just use the Commissioner's decision is final and hope nobody has issue with it and let it go? no prob with agreeing to disagree.

You list this nuance, you have to list them all. It would never end. Listing them even creates more nuances. It becomes a huge mess.