-1 for QB Pick

Sandman62
Posts: 3538
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: RI

Re: -1 for QB Pick

Post by Sandman62 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:05 am

mattjb wrote:Is it really that different from Brian Hartlione putting up 40+ points?
Were 2/3 of the top 36-48 WRs in each league (IOW, the entire position) drafted from late rounds or come off the waiver wire? You're pointing out an example of isolated incidents. Even if Hartline hangs on to be a top-20 WR at season's end, he's an exception, not the norm. In a quick glance of the current top 50 WRs, I see maybe 2 or 3 that might've come off the waiver wire or been late-round picks.

So yeah, I think it's VERY different.

User avatar
kjduke
Posts: 3237
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: -1 for QB Pick

Post by kjduke » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:06 am

... and I have no pity for the guy who takes Akers in the 9th round, or takes Mason Crosby number 1 or 2 overall because he plays on a good team, or the guy who drafts Billy Cundiff as his starter. :P

Sandman62
Posts: 3538
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: RI

Re: -1 for QB Pick

Post by Sandman62 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:08 am

kjduke wrote:I attribute this to most people being lazy when it comes to researching kickers ... ok with me, but like any other position it can cost you points. I have 21 teams with 19 Justin Tuckers, 1 Zuerlein and 1 Walsh as my starting kickers. There is some luck to getting the right kickers but some research also gives you a better chance for those who want to "waste" the time doing it ... like any other player on your roster.
Just curious, did you DRAFT those kickers or get them off waivers?

mattjb
Posts: 1651
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:00 pm

Re: -1 for QB Pick

Post by mattjb » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:11 am

Sandman62 wrote:
mattjb wrote:Is it really that different from Brian Hartlione putting up 40+ points?
Were 2/3 of the top 36-48 WRs in each league (IOW, the entire position) drafted from late rounds or come off the waiver wire? You're pointing out an example of isolated incidents. Even if Hartline hangs on to be a top-20 WR at season's end, he's an exception, not the norm. In a quick glance of the current top 50 WRs, I see maybe 2 or 3 that might've come off the waiver wire or been late-round picks.

So yeah, I think it's VERY different.
Supply and demand. You have to start 3 WRs so the comparison doesn't work. Picking a good kicker isn't luck it's just there are more than we need. Perhaps if each team had to start 2 kickers they would get the research they deserve :D

User avatar
kjduke
Posts: 3237
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: -1 for QB Pick

Post by kjduke » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:13 am

Sandman62 wrote:
kjduke wrote:I attribute this to most people being lazy when it comes to researching kickers ... ok with me, but like any other position it can cost you points. I have 21 teams with 19 Justin Tuckers, 1 Zuerlein and 1 Walsh as my starting kickers. There is some luck to getting the right kickers but some research also gives you a better chance for those who want to "waste" the time doing it ... like any other player on your roster.
Just curious, did you DRAFT those kickers or get them off waivers?
Eleven drafted, 10 faab. Every draft late in the season I drafted Tucker except when I got sniped in the 19th round of the Classic, so I took Zuerlein.

King of Queens
Posts: 5262
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: -1 for QB Pick

Post by King of Queens » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:16 am

kjduke wrote:
Sandman62 wrote:
kjduke wrote:I attribute this to most people being lazy when it comes to researching kickers ... ok with me, but like any other position it can cost you points. I have 21 teams with 19 Justin Tuckers, 1 Zuerlein and 1 Walsh as my starting kickers. There is some luck to getting the right kickers but some research also gives you a better chance for those who want to "waste" the time doing it ... like any other player on your roster.
Just curious, did you DRAFT those kickers or get them off waivers?
Eleven drafted, 10 faab. Every draft late in the season I drafted Tucker except when I got sniped in the 19th round of the Classic, so I took Zuerlein.
Image

User avatar
kjduke
Posts: 3237
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: -1 for QB Pick

Post by kjduke » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:30 am

Last season the top kicker scored 12.7 PPG, the next 4 scored 10 PPG, the rest of the fantasy starters (top 14) scored 9 PPG. In 2010, the top was 10.5, one other scored 10, 6 more scored 9 PPG and the rest of the starters scored 8. 2009 was similar to 2010.

That is a much narrower differential between players than any other individual player position, which is what dictates value. It also is not a high score (8-11 pts) relative to other positions. Kicker scoring passes the smell test.

Reducing kicker scoring further would make the position virtually meaningless. Kickers are critical players in the real NFL too, even if most teams don't "get it" there either. Respect the kicker, he can beat you or he can fail you. Don't be the Mike Shanahan of fantasy football kicker coaches. :mrgreen:

Image
Last edited by kjduke on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sandman62
Posts: 3538
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: RI

Re: -1 for QB Pick

Post by Sandman62 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:36 am

kjduke wrote:
Sandman62 wrote:
kjduke wrote:I attribute this to most people being lazy when it comes to researching kickers ... ok with me, but like any other position it can cost you points. I have 21 teams with 19 Justin Tuckers, 1 Zuerlein and 1 Walsh as my starting kickers. There is some luck to getting the right kickers but some research also gives you a better chance for those who want to "waste" the time doing it ... like any other player on your roster.
Just curious, did you DRAFT those kickers or get them off waivers?
Eleven drafted, 10 faab. Every draft late in the season I drafted Tucker except when I got sniped in the 19th round of the Classic, so I took Zuerlein.
Not bad at all. Now confess... how many of these were DCs and he was your 3rd kicker? :P
Last edited by Sandman62 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tom Kessenich
Posts: 30136
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: -1 for QB Pick

Post by Tom Kessenich » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:36 am

King of Queens wrote:
Tom Kessenich wrote: We can and will look into everything Glenn but I'm not seeing a lot of outrage over kicker scoring in the fantasy industry. That's not to say we shouldn't be out in front of things and we have been in a lot of ways over the years as you well know. But our scoring for kickers seems to be pretty standard. Are players in other contests and leagues viewing this as an issue that needs to be addressed?
There is a similar discussion taking place on the Rotoworld forums. Might just be my perception, but it seems that people's frustrations over randomness in fantasy football is at an all-time high this year. One of the points brought up in that thread concerned kicker scoring, and in my opinion, the data speaks for itself.
There's randomness everywhere, though, in fantasy football. Like Matt said, Brian Hartline pulls a major game out of his behind out of nowhere. The Texans' defense scores not once but twice. Ryan Fitzpatrick throws for 350 yards after struggling to reach 200 in a game the first three weeks. Somebody named Brandon Bolden looked like Jim Brown for a day.

Randomness or luck or whatever you want to call it is always going to be a part of fantasy football and sometimes it's a pretty big part. If we love this game - and I love it - then we have to accept that going in. I know I do. Trying to massively change the rules in an attempt to remove this aspect is a failing method in my opinion. No matter how hard you try to remove it, it's always going to be there and there will be weeks when it's there in droves. Having played this game for over 25 years if there's one thing I know it's that there are no perfect remedies to the "random" or "luck" factor. It will always be there.

I'll keep using my Dan Bailey example. I drafted him thinking he'd be a good fantasy option because he's talented and on what I expected to be a good offense just like last season. To this point he's been fine but the offense stinks and his fantasy production has been poor as a result. Am I responding to that by wanting the entire position removed or the scoring adjusted? Not at all. I'm just going to find a better kicker so I'm stronger at the position. Unlike other positions kicker is one where you can improve the position - sometimes significantly - after the season has begun. I consider that to be a good thing for this game. I'm also not upset that someone may have Greg Zeurlein, Justin Tucker or Phil Dawson last week and I have Bailey. If they were smart enough to draft those guys or grab them off the WW more power to them. I drafted Akers and snared Bailey in a bunch of leagues off the WW last year and was rewarded for those moves. If people want to say I was lucky to have those kickers fine. To that I say I hope to have more of that kind of luck this season. :)

I think the frustration in fantasy football is higher than the other sports because you only get one shot per week. In baseball and basketball one bad day/night isn't going to kill your week. In fantasy football, it will. So if you see Greg Zeurlein or Phil Dawson go crazy it's going to frustrate you if you played against them or if you started Nick Folk this week and he got you zip. Or if you started Julio Jones and went up against the guy who started Brian Hartline for some unknown reason and beat the the absolute he** out of you in the process. There's always going to be some randomness or luck involved. That's the nature of the game.
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich

Sandman62
Posts: 3538
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: RI

Re: -1 for QB Pick

Post by Sandman62 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:41 am

Tom Kessenich wrote:Unlike other positions kicker is one where you can improve the position - sometimes significantly - after the season has begun.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner! :D

Why should the position most of us do the least amount of research on and draft the latest have this advantage over all the other positions that are drafted sooner? I understand, as game operators, why this might be preferred. But as players??? :?
Last edited by Sandman62 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply