Will KDS Work In 2007?

TURBOUGH · Post by **TURBOUGH** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:54 am

Are you implementing the KDS as well for 2007 or just the 3RR?

RiFF · Post by **RiFF** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:58 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Licensing has been another expense in the past that both the NFFC and WCOFF have paid, something folks rarely consider when seeing the payouts.

With the recent information you have provided regarding the Court cases related to licensing; if the tenor of the Court rulings hold up do you see the potential for these licensing fees you currently incur, going away in the not to distant future?

RI WORKHORSE · Post by **RI WORKHORSE** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:59 am

Originally posted by Diesel:
1- Nag, criticism is expected on a thread that is asking how people feel about the 3RR. But I'm curious...Are there people from the NFFC that take the time to write on the WCOFF boards(and aren't signed up for the WCOFF event), to criticize their customer service and 12 team format? It seems as though you are one who dislikes the NFFC. Dislikes it so much that you're around the NFFC a lot to tell a lot of people. It's a free country and free speech is what these boards are about, but I don't care for the WCOFF and their 12 team format, AND their shabby customer service, but I don't take the time to go to their message boards to tell them that because quite frankly, I don't care enough about that event to do that. Do you at least have any motive, posting here? Do you want to join the NFFC, but just don't like the 12 team format and/or 3rr/KDS? Were you in the NFFC in year 1 and 2 when it was straight random picks?

2-RI Workhorse...I think Flyers are a great idea, but Greg sent me 100 flyers in 2005, and I didn't get one referal. I handed out 65 or so, and put the rest in windows of supermarkets and billboards. No results. It seems pure word of mouth is the best way to bring people in. I've brought in about 5 or 6 people in several different events over the last 3 years, and they were all resulting from conversations at home or people PM'ing me here on the messageboards asking about an event, and eventually signing up after I break down all rules for them and give them different strategies to choose from...

But I still agree, flyers can't hurt...lol Marc,

If you targeted a sporting event, That would be the way to go. But I guess It's all about the $200,000 prize. People don't care about how they get treated at WCrap as long as they got the BIG prize to win...We all Know that Greg And TK treat us great and have done everything they can to make this the Best Fanatsy league to play in around the world. And make it about Skills and not luck.

Maybe Put out there that Winner will get-

"$300,000 Grand Prize" ***********

**********-Only if the NFFC reaches 800 sign up's.

dcc1973 · Post by **dcc1973** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:02 am

Originally posted by Diesel:
1- Nag, criticism is expected on a thread that is asking how people feel about the 3RR. But I'm curious...Are there people from the NFFC that take the time to write on the WCOFF boards(and aren't signed up for the WCOFF event), to criticize their customer service and 12 team format? It seems as though you are one who dislikes the NFFC. Dislikes it so much that you're around the NFFC a lot to tell a lot of people. It's a free country and free speech is what these boards are about, but I don't care for the WCOFF and their 12 team format, AND their shabby customer service, but I don't take the time to go to their message boards to tell them that because quite frankly, I don't care enough about that event to do that. Do you at least have any motive, posting here? Do you want to join the NFFC, but just don't like the 12 team format and/or 3rr/KDS? Were you in the NFFC in year 1 and 2 when it was straight random picks?

2-RI Workhorse...I think Flyers are a great idea, but Greg sent me 100 flyers in 2005, and I didn't get one referal. I handed out 65 or so, and put the rest in windows of supermarkets and billboards. No results. It seems pure word of mouth is the best way to bring people in. I've brought in about 5 or 6 people in several different events over the last 3 years, and they were all resulting from conversations at home or people PM'ing me here on the messageboards asking about an event, and eventually signing up after I break down all rules for them and give them different strategies to choose from...

But I still agree, flyers can't hurt...lol Diesel - to answer your question about #1, yes, Gordon Gekko in previous years did exactly that (Gekko isn't the only one, but the only one that I remember). Went on the other league's message boards and trashed the customer service and 12 team format. The tone of these posts insured that I wouldn't even consider joining the NFFC in the first year or two, and I think it caused a lot of bad will at the time for the NFFC from a number of owners in the other league.

Ted's Cracked Head · Post by **Ted's Cracked Head** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:22 am

KDS - On it's own a success as it does give the owners some say in where they want to pick. Obviously not every owner was going to be happy but at least they all had a say or some level of control in the process.

KDS + 3RR = as close as you can get in a "snake draft" to equality.

Yes you can win from any position and I am proof of that as I won from the 6th spot last year but the statistics overwhelmingly support the fact that in a traditional snake, the first few picks have a greater chance of reaching the playoffs and cashing.

Using 3RR, when you switch in the third round, you are giving the back half of the draft a chance to select from potential studs that may or may not have been available to them in a traditional format. You are empowering them to have a chance to pick from a pool that is deeper and possibly more talented giving them a chance to cut into the lead that the first 3 or 6 owners have built simply because of the luck of the draw in the first round. This is as fair as it gets with a snake draft.

I am a proud player in both the NFFC and WCOFF and post on both sites. I was a lifer in the WCOFF until last year because of scheduling issues but plan on playing in their main event this year as the 300K is too much for me to pass on no matter how short their season is (11 weeks) and how bad their previous website screwed up. I can also almost tolerate the 12 team leagues now, almost.

I mention this because I have drafted several times using the 3RR this year and have been very pleased with the teams I was able to draft from the later positions. I loved the choices available to me as we started the 3rd round and also liked my place in the turn at rounds 4 and 5 even more. To me, this is where the talent pool really drops off and where championships are won.

A couple of weeks ago I joined a WCOFF $220 satellite and had the fortune of drawing my fav slot, 10. I forgot that it was my fav slot only in the 3RR and was pissed when the 3rd round started and I realized that I was picking 10th again. Luckily for me one of my top 5 wrs dropped to me anyway and it worked out ok but it felt very wrong for me. Wrong enough for me not to send my check into the WCOFF because why should I play in a format that has an 11 week regular season, does not use 3RR and has 12 team leagues? To me that is 3 strikes, especially since there are options here that better suit my need to play vs the best, has the top customer service in the industry, has a proven track record and is willing to take the tough steps to maximize the experience for its participants.

The NFFC and its 14 team leagues, 13 week regular season, new league championship rules (awesome change), empowering and balancing additions of KDS and 3RR, 1st rate customer service and its relatively smaller yet talented player pool are all reasons why I would play here first if I could only play in ONE league.

This is not about the NFFC vs the WCOFF as so many on both sites seem to think and I wish some of these folks on both sites would stop bashing the other sites as it does no good for either. This is about us as players having options. We have choices to make and we should be very grateful for that. Thanks to Greg, Tom, Lenny, EMil and now Jesse and Dustin for giving us a chance to play this game for these stakes.

Question: How big is too big for a league like this? Do you want to be playing versus 2000 people for a few hundred thousand dollars or do you want to play vs 500 for a couple of hundred thousand? I would rather see the entrance fees increase than have to double the player pool to get that top prize in the 7 digit range. IMO

Prediction: 3RR will be a huge success and will be embraced by the entire FF community. "Revolutionize" is a word that comes to mind. The statistics that Greg has posted already show that the concept is delivering as promised. When all of the data is in, this will be seen as a great victory for all players, the FF industry and the NFFC.

Nag' · Post by **Nag'** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:26 am

Originally posted by Diesel:
1- Nag, criticism is expected on a thread that is asking how people feel about the 3RR. But I'm curious...Are there people from the NFFC that take the time to write on the WCOFF boards(and aren't signed up for the WCOFF event), to criticize their customer service and 12 team format? It seems as though you are one who dislikes the NFFC. Dislikes it so much that you're around the NFFC a lot to tell a lot of people. It's a free country and free speech is what these boards are about, but I don't care for the WCOFF and their 12 team format, AND their shabby customer service, but I don't take the time to go to their message boards to tell them that because quite frankly, I don't care enough about that event to do that. Do you at least have any motive, posting here? Do you want to join the NFFC, but just don't like the 12 team format and/or 3rr/KDS? Were you in the NFFC in year 1 and 2 when it was straight random picks? Dude, what the hell are you talking about?

I've been in the NFFC main event every year and don't plan on leaving.
I've been nothing BUT a supporter of the NFFC every year.
I'm probably one of a handful of people who have played in both NFFC and WCOFF every year since their inception
I personally brought new participants and WCOFF veterans like 3intboy and Team Legacy to join NFFC.
I am one of the first and one of the most vocal members of the WCOFF and have always been telling all my WCOFF buddies about the NFFC. Most of the WCOFF crossovers you see on these boards know me from the WCOFF in one form or another. I'm not suggesting they learned about the NFFC from me, but when they first came here and saw familiar names like myself hanging around these boards, I'm sure that gave them that much more comfort in jumping in.
I've always been outspoken about certain issues and I don't really care if that upsets anyone here. I try to be respectful and thoughtful in my comments but I will say it exactly how I see it.

Nag' · Post by **Nag'** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:28 am

P.S. And YOU need to get your fatcs checked out first, before making ignorant accusations.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:34 am

Just a thought from a "potential customers" viewpoint...

I LOVE to play the best. I get a chuckle out of the angle here saying that by adding 2 more teams...you are now the best.

Me wanting to play the best is foolish from a financial angle...but natural to me from a competitive standpoint.

Comparing it to poker...it's a rush and fun to play at a table with the top pro's...but it is financially foolish.

Your target audience is the hard core 14 team fanatics. Most all changes made have come directly from the message board here.

Someone would be foolish to choose a "harder" win for less money when there's another option for an "easier" win (like you guys like to call the WCOFF)...or a "luckier" win for much more money.

It's just logical that a simple format well known and consistent would appeal to the most fantasy players...and the fine tuned concepts and original tweaks the NFFC offers would appeal to the hard core players. There will always be less hard core players out there, thus the chance of "catching up" will be difficult.

I love both formats!

~Lance

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:44 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
Just a thought from a "potential customers" viewpoint...

I LOVE to play the best. I get a chuckle out of the angle here saying that by adding 2 more teams...you are now the best.

Me wanting to play the best is foolish from a financial angle...but natural to me from a competitive standpoint.

Comparing it to poker...it's a rush and fun to play at a table with the top pro's...but it is financially foolish.

Your target audience is the hard core 14 team fanatics. Most all changes made have come directly from the message board here.

Someone would be foolish to choose a "harder" win for less money when there's another option for an "easier" win (like you guys like to call the WCOFF)...or a "luckier" win for much more money.

It's just logical that a simple format well known and consistent would appeal to the most fantasy players...and the fine tuned concepts and original tweaks the NFFC offers would appeal to the hard core players. There will always be less hard core players out there, thus the chance of "catching up" will be difficult.

I love both formats!

~Lance I think you nailed it Lance, I feel the same way (even though I haven't played WCOFF yet because I can't be in Vegas for consecutive weekends).

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:08 am

Originally posted by RiFF:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Licensing has been another expense in the past that both the NFFC and WCOFF have paid, something folks rarely consider when seeing the payouts.

With the recent information you have provided regarding the Court cases related to licensing; if the tenor of the Court rulings hold up do you see the potential for these licensing fees you currently incur, going away in the not to distant future? [/QUOTE]I'll take the Fifth Amendment!!

Seriously, we are a very big company that works with the leagues and players association in the sports collectibles field and other endeavors. We are currently licensed by MLBAM for our baseball game and we have a good relationship with the NFLPA and have been licensed since 2004 with them. So we'll see.