robert meachem

OrCal Crapshooters · Post by **OrCal Crapshooters** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:48 am

I agree Billy. It doesn't apply here. 4D got a little off track. I know all points count against the D. I have no beef with that. Points are points.What do you do ? Also, all players are awarded credit for a tackle 4D. That doesn't mean they are lined up to play defense.

mkrucek · Post by **mkrucek** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:04 am

Originally posted by OrCal Crapshooters:
I agree Billy. It doesn't apply here. 4D got a little off track. I know all points count against the D. I have no beef with that. Points are points.What do you do ? Also, all players are awarded credit for a tackle 4D. That doesn't mean they are lined up to play defense. Follow along - A D has points scored against it when it is NOT ON THE FIELD. Of course there's something you can do. Only count points when it's on the field. Not that hard. It matters because if you say a D can be scored on when not on the field then why can't it also score if not "on the field.?" If a player is awarded credit for a tackle and a forced fumble - defensive statistics - then it can be argued that the td resulting from that forces fumble can be credited to the D. You can disagree as to how YOU would handle it, but it's not ridiculous to score it that way for fantasy purposes.

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:07 am

Meacham got credit for a tackle and a FR.That's not what I see on NFL.com, 4D. Can't find Meacham's name anywhere in the defensive stats so I'd like to know where you are getting your info from.

As for your point about the defense getting hit with points given up by the offense, I agree with you that if it is at all possible for STATS to subtract defense/special team points in determining points scored against defenses, it should be done. Much easier to do manually than electronically.

KOTRAX · Post by **KOTRAX** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:15 am

WHY ARE PEOPLE ACTING "BRAND NEW" TO THIS SITUATION. WE ALL KNOW ON A DOUBLE TURNOVER THAT THE DEFENSIVE TEAM GETS CREDIT FOR THE TOUCHDOWN.

BOTTOM LINE IS IF YOU STARTED MEACHEM YOU DON'T GET THE SCORE BUT IF YOU STARTED THE SAINTS D YOU GET THE SCORE.

THOSE ARE JUST THE RULES. IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO GRASP.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:22 am

Originally posted by Tamuscarecrow:
From the NFL rulebook Rule 3, Section 35, Article 1: "Whenever a team is in possession, it is the Offense and, at such time, its opponent is the Defense." The rule, along with Rule 3, Section 35, Article 2, states: "The team that puts the ball in play is Team A, and its opponent is Team B. For brevity, a player on Team A is referred to as A1 and his teammates as A2, A3, etc… Opponents are B1, B2, etc… The rule goes on state through notation: "A team becomes Team A when it has been designated to put ball in play, and it remains Team A until a down ends, even though there might be one or more changes of possession during the down. This is in contrast with the terms Offense and Defense. Team A is the offense when the down starts, but becomes the defense if and when B secures possession during the down, and vice versa for each change of possession."

Rule 3, Section 35 that Meacham reverted back to an offensive player when he recovered Moore's fumble.
THIS was my argument on the WCOFF MB back when this happened to Keenan. The bold part was my main argument. How do Defensive teams get rewarded for INT/TD's if the moment they intercept the ball...they are now "the offense"?????

Rule 3, Section 35 that Meacham reverted back to an offensive player when he recovered Moore's fumble.

According to that rule...no DEF EVER EVER EVER scores a touchdown...as that would be impossible as anyone in contol of the ball is the "offense" :rolleyes:

[ December 07, 2009, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

chriseibl · Post by **chriseibl** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:22 am

Originally posted by KOTRAX:
WHY ARE PEOPLE ACTING "BRAND NEW" TO THIS SITUATION. WE ALL KNOW ON A DOUBLE TURNOVER THAT THE DEFENSIVE TEAM GETS CREDIT FOR THE TOUCHDOWN.

BOTTOM LINE IS IF YOU STARTED MEACHEM YOU DON'T GET THE SCORE BUT IF YOU STARTED THE SAINTS D YOU GET THE SCORE.

THOSE ARE JUST THE RULES. IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO GRASP. i'm someone without bias to the situation and that's how i would interpret it based on how the rules here are worded. touchdown saints d.

Jim Wiseheart · Post by **Jim Wiseheart** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:30 am

I don't want to cause additional problems here, but it looks like this was addressed by the NFFC in 2004 in the post below which discusses the McCardell play (same situation from 2003). I pasted this in from the Ask The NFFC A Question forum after doing a McCardell search.

I played in the WCOFF in 2003 and remember the controversy. I personally don't care which way it is scored as long as we are consistent and follow stated rules (if any). This may be the first play like this since McCardell.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Diesel:
McCardell's touchdown not only exposed a minor loophole, but that single TD affected Head to Head games' results. The NFL stated that there can only be an established change of hands from the Offense to Defense(Or Defense to Offense) ONCE.
So under NFL rules, once M. Doss picked the pass off, he became an OFFENSIVE player. Which to me, sounds ridiculous, but this made McCardell a DEFENSIVE player at the same time. With this being said, Doss' fumble which ended in McCardell's TD was then awarded to the Defense instead of the Wideout.

That's how the NFL/ commissioner.com ruled it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yup, I remember that quite well. And while that's how the NFL rules it, personally I think that's incredibly silly since McCardell is clearly not a defensive player and Doss was not an offensive player. Thus we have made our rules to state that in such an event the touchdown points would not be awarded to the Bucs' defense, but rather to the offensive player in question -- McCardell.

It may conflict with the NFL's official rule, but that's how we're going to rule it and since it's being stated in advance hopefully that will prevent any controversy should such a play happen again. Of course, the best-case scenario is nothing like that ever happens again.

--------------------
Tom Kessenich
Managing Editor, Fanball.com
Event Director, National Fantasy Football Championship

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:30 am

KOTRAX, the NFL rule states the offensive player becomes a defensive player upon a change of possession and reverts back to an offensive player if the offense gets the ball back during the same play. Therefore, in the eyes of the NFL rules, Meacham was in fact an offensive player when he scored and therefore giving points to the Saints D is not the correct answer.

The NFFC rules do not cover this and this situation has, in fact, never occurred in the NFFC as the last recorded time this occurred was 2003. So before you get on here blurting stupidities, get some facts.

For those who know me, you will have to excuse my tirade on this but it's money time and my tolerance for ignorance is short.

mkrucek · Post by **mkrucek** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:33 am

Originally posted by Tamuscarecrow:
quote:Meacham got credit for a tackle and a FR.That's not what I see on NFL.com, 4D. Can't find Meacham's name anywhere in the defensive stats so I'd like to know where you are getting your info from.

As for your point about the defense getting hit with points given up by the offense, I agree with you that if it is at all possible for STATS to subtract defense/special team points in determining points scored against defenses, it should be done. Much easier to do manually than electronically. [/QUOTE]From the play-by-play, can't find the gamebook posted yet

3-26-WAS 44 (:39) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short middle intended for 88-J.Shockey INTERCEPTED by 41-K.Moore at WAS 30. 41-K.Moore to WAS 44 for 14 yards (17-R.Meachem). FUMBLES (17-R.Meachem), RECOVERED by NO-17-R.Meachem at WAS 44. 17-R.Meachem for 44 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Play Challenged by Replay Assistant and Upheld.

This gives him credit for a tackle, FF, and FR.

mikeybok · Post by **mikeybok** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:35 am

The rules haven't changed no matter how much people "NEED" them to. We can discuss rule changes for next year. We should only implement rules for this season and not try to decide if they make sense or are fair or should be changed in the middle of the contest.

No different than discussing things like "if a throwing TD should be worth 4 points instead of six to a QB for week 13" the Monday after those games have been played.

Just a thought.