survey
survey
1st year player here but long time player overall. Anything with 6 teams in the playoffs is a no. Rewarding mediocrity is not why I and most others play. If you cannot be in the top 2 in record or points you do not deserve to be in the playoffs. I had no idea if I would like the other changes the nffc had the the other 2 leagues did not but turns out it was a nice change. I like the 13 week season, KDS, and the playoffs with 1 and 2 and hopefully 3 and 4 if they split H/H and TP. I think a lot of what has come out is because of the large inflow including myself from the wcoff and people are not used to the differences in the leagues. I am hoping it will remain bascially unchanged and people get used to it before trying to change it all because they are not used to it and it feels a little uncomfortable, kind of like a first date all nerves ect but after a few more it becomes much more at ease and better decisions can be made.
when you figure out there is no way to figure it out your almost there
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 35869
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
survey
First of all, thanks to everyone for all of the feedback and ideas in this thread, other threads and the surveys. There is a lot of passion from our owners about our rules and ways to make our event and contests even better. I can feel that and I appreciate it.
The passion is so great that within the first day of our survey going out we had over 230 responses. People want to let us know how they feel about our rules and what they think can be done to make everything better. It wasn't a perfect survey by any means and that's my fault if I didn't provide a third option within some questions, but the feedback for most of this still will be very helpful to us here at the NFFC.
I think you can see from this thread alone that just tweaking our rules involving the first and second place prize money or an extra round for third place money elicits a lot of passion. Not everyone wants the same setup. But everyone does want a fair setup and one that easy to understand. We already have enough complicated rules that we felt gave NFFC owners more control of their teams, so the last thing we want is even more complicated rules when it comes to handing out the prize money.
But the ideas presented here have some merit. That being said, the responses against those proposals hold even more merit in my eyes. We will look at the survey results this week, present them here for all to see and then make some quick decisions on our rules and formats going forward in 2012. We have every intention of growing the NFFC this season and getting our plans out to you quickly so that you can plan accordingly. We know there will be plenty of options for you in 2012 and we want you to know what you can expect from the NFFC soon so that you can budget and plan accordingly. Hopefully you'll like what we're going to offer in 2012.
The passion is so great that within the first day of our survey going out we had over 230 responses. People want to let us know how they feel about our rules and what they think can be done to make everything better. It wasn't a perfect survey by any means and that's my fault if I didn't provide a third option within some questions, but the feedback for most of this still will be very helpful to us here at the NFFC.
I think you can see from this thread alone that just tweaking our rules involving the first and second place prize money or an extra round for third place money elicits a lot of passion. Not everyone wants the same setup. But everyone does want a fair setup and one that easy to understand. We already have enough complicated rules that we felt gave NFFC owners more control of their teams, so the last thing we want is even more complicated rules when it comes to handing out the prize money.
But the ideas presented here have some merit. That being said, the responses against those proposals hold even more merit in my eyes. We will look at the survey results this week, present them here for all to see and then make some quick decisions on our rules and formats going forward in 2012. We have every intention of growing the NFFC this season and getting our plans out to you quickly so that you can plan accordingly. We know there will be plenty of options for you in 2012 and we want you to know what you can expect from the NFFC soon so that you can budget and plan accordingly. Hopefully you'll like what we're going to offer in 2012.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 35869
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
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Originally posted by Bullgod:
I agree with Jules. The 1st and 2nd place teams should be rewarded for dominating or outlasting the other teams through the 13 weeks. I don't like the idea of being in a league with the overall points champ and having a great season finishing second and only getting $1,500. If you win or finish second in your league you should get more than you paid in entry fees!
A couple of years ago the 1-800-godeep team was the last qualifier in the Classic playoffs. His team outscored everyone for the 3 week playoffs and some folks were mad and said it was a lottery?!? It is a lottery. You could have 3 fantastic weeks and still not win the grand prize.
The league prize money should not be a 1 in 4 or 1 in 6 chance.
Using KOQ's plan here's another scenario, your team dominates in points but someone else has a better record. You win $2,000. The sixth place team gets hot and wins the "playoff tournament". They win $2,500. How is that fair? I understand these plans are being proposed to bring in more people but if they are flawed why would people sign up?
I think the current system is the most fair. If I were to change anything it would be to lower the grand prize and give more money to league payouts. That way more customers would get a higher ROI. I know the $100,000 gets folks attention, but if you look at it realistically you have a 1 in 320 chance to win the $100,000 and a 1 in 7 chance to finish 1st or 2nd in your league. Pat, this is a very solid post and it mirrors my concerns as well. I totally understand KOQ's idea to keep four teams involved longer and maybe even give one team a shot at a bigger league prize. But my concern is that under this plan the regular season is devalued to the point where it's possible that only one team within each league leaves with a worthy payout.
As for taking the big carrot away, it's interesting that several people have said that on our boards but not for other contests. Why would it make more sense for us to lower our grand prize when other contests are growing their user base with bigger grand prizes? And we already have many contests with total payouts just within the league and so do other contests, and honestly it's the national contests with big grand prizes that are growing at a faster rate than any of the satellites with much bigger league payouts. Our $1,000 and $500 satellite leagues haven't grown near as much as our Classic and Primetime contests. Our Online Championship also pays out $2,100 in league prizes compared to FBG's $1,950 and yet nobody is lauding us for bigger league prizes and payouts of 4x for 1st and 2x for 2nd compared to just one team winning more than their entry fee in FBG. Maybe it's time for us to pare that down and go for the bigger carrot as well.
That being said about increasing league prizes, maybe the Classic does make sense to change the model slightly there. Maybe with the 14-team format it does make more sense to reward within those leagues more while taking the big carrot down a notch. It's something I'm definitely exploring, while planning for a much bigger Primetime grand prize. I will post some league models for the Classic shortly and open discussion there if folks like. We are committed to the Classic and believe it has a bright future among our many products, but for the first time I am thinking about growing that contest with stronger league prizes rather than the biggest carrot in the field.
Thoughts there?
I agree with Jules. The 1st and 2nd place teams should be rewarded for dominating or outlasting the other teams through the 13 weeks. I don't like the idea of being in a league with the overall points champ and having a great season finishing second and only getting $1,500. If you win or finish second in your league you should get more than you paid in entry fees!
A couple of years ago the 1-800-godeep team was the last qualifier in the Classic playoffs. His team outscored everyone for the 3 week playoffs and some folks were mad and said it was a lottery?!? It is a lottery. You could have 3 fantastic weeks and still not win the grand prize.
The league prize money should not be a 1 in 4 or 1 in 6 chance.
Using KOQ's plan here's another scenario, your team dominates in points but someone else has a better record. You win $2,000. The sixth place team gets hot and wins the "playoff tournament". They win $2,500. How is that fair? I understand these plans are being proposed to bring in more people but if they are flawed why would people sign up?
I think the current system is the most fair. If I were to change anything it would be to lower the grand prize and give more money to league payouts. That way more customers would get a higher ROI. I know the $100,000 gets folks attention, but if you look at it realistically you have a 1 in 320 chance to win the $100,000 and a 1 in 7 chance to finish 1st or 2nd in your league. Pat, this is a very solid post and it mirrors my concerns as well. I totally understand KOQ's idea to keep four teams involved longer and maybe even give one team a shot at a bigger league prize. But my concern is that under this plan the regular season is devalued to the point where it's possible that only one team within each league leaves with a worthy payout.
As for taking the big carrot away, it's interesting that several people have said that on our boards but not for other contests. Why would it make more sense for us to lower our grand prize when other contests are growing their user base with bigger grand prizes? And we already have many contests with total payouts just within the league and so do other contests, and honestly it's the national contests with big grand prizes that are growing at a faster rate than any of the satellites with much bigger league payouts. Our $1,000 and $500 satellite leagues haven't grown near as much as our Classic and Primetime contests. Our Online Championship also pays out $2,100 in league prizes compared to FBG's $1,950 and yet nobody is lauding us for bigger league prizes and payouts of 4x for 1st and 2x for 2nd compared to just one team winning more than their entry fee in FBG. Maybe it's time for us to pare that down and go for the bigger carrot as well.
That being said about increasing league prizes, maybe the Classic does make sense to change the model slightly there. Maybe with the 14-team format it does make more sense to reward within those leagues more while taking the big carrot down a notch. It's something I'm definitely exploring, while planning for a much bigger Primetime grand prize. I will post some league models for the Classic shortly and open discussion there if folks like. We are committed to the Classic and believe it has a bright future among our many products, but for the first time I am thinking about growing that contest with stronger league prizes rather than the biggest carrot in the field.
Thoughts there?
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 35869
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
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Originally posted by Glenneration X:
Many of the posts in the various playoff threads have me confused.
I've read posts complaining about the money dedicated to the overall prizes. I've read posts arguing against the need for playoffs. I've read posts that the head to head winners are lucky and undeserving unless they are also a high point scorer. I've read posts arguing that only the teams that score the most points are deserving of a substantial prize.
Yet these arguments are being made regarding an overall contest with a playoff system and H2H component.
If these aspects are not what's desired, why even bother playing an overall contest. Why not stick to WTA 16 week points only satellites. No overall to steal league prize money, no playoffs to reward a hot three week run, no H2H to reward undeserving and lucky winners. Believe me, I don't get involved with anything, let alone a fantasy football contest that's supposed to be fun, with that many attributes that I find a negative. Glenn, you're spot on here. This industry offers plenty of options for folks to play in and if some people just want big league prizes, well the NFFC and other contests certainly offer plenty of those, ranging from 80% payouts to 93.5%. Again, there's very little reason to belittle the national contests with the big carrots when those contests are the fastest growing ones. Heck, given the choice myself I'd love bigger league prizes, but the lure of the big grand prize and the fun of competing with so many like-minded crazies would eventually drag me into the national contests. I just know it would.
But I agree with you. To each his own and that's why we provide so many different offerings. At the end of the day, hopefully we're paying the best teams the most prize money in a format that is fair to everyone.
Many of the posts in the various playoff threads have me confused.
I've read posts complaining about the money dedicated to the overall prizes. I've read posts arguing against the need for playoffs. I've read posts that the head to head winners are lucky and undeserving unless they are also a high point scorer. I've read posts arguing that only the teams that score the most points are deserving of a substantial prize.
Yet these arguments are being made regarding an overall contest with a playoff system and H2H component.
If these aspects are not what's desired, why even bother playing an overall contest. Why not stick to WTA 16 week points only satellites. No overall to steal league prize money, no playoffs to reward a hot three week run, no H2H to reward undeserving and lucky winners. Believe me, I don't get involved with anything, let alone a fantasy football contest that's supposed to be fun, with that many attributes that I find a negative. Glenn, you're spot on here. This industry offers plenty of options for folks to play in and if some people just want big league prizes, well the NFFC and other contests certainly offer plenty of those, ranging from 80% payouts to 93.5%. Again, there's very little reason to belittle the national contests with the big carrots when those contests are the fastest growing ones. Heck, given the choice myself I'd love bigger league prizes, but the lure of the big grand prize and the fun of competing with so many like-minded crazies would eventually drag me into the national contests. I just know it would.
But I agree with you. To each his own and that's why we provide so many different offerings. At the end of the day, hopefully we're paying the best teams the most prize money in a format that is fair to everyone.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 35869
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
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Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
It's interesting that the discussion turned a bit toward the grand prize vs. league prizes. I sort of like the idea of a big grand prize. However, I also know that several of my friends were quite shocked when I told them I won my league's championship and $5200. That sounded great until they asked how much my entry fee was. For $1400 in they were expecting a league prize of at least $8K because our local leagues give 50% of the pot to first place. When I explained there was a chance at $100K on top of the $5200 they understood better. However, i feel they still seemed to think I did not win enough. If that's what the average person thinks, then maybe a smaller grand prize makes some sense.
That said, Glenn's point about joining a satellite is all too true, or an ultimate. I get that too.
Pete CONGRATS Pete on your Primetime league title. That was a heck of an accomplishment. Tell your buds that to grow a carrot -- no matter if it's $50,000 or $100,000 or $300,000 -- some of that money has to come from somewhere. And if we don't provide any carrot, then in the NFFC you can win 8x your entry in a satellite league or Super or Ultimate. Tell your buds that had you won the Ultimate League, your $5,000 entry fee would have netted you $40,000. Each contest is different and in your case not only did you win $5,200 but for 3 weeks you had the thrill of possibly winning $100,000 more.
It's interesting that the discussion turned a bit toward the grand prize vs. league prizes. I sort of like the idea of a big grand prize. However, I also know that several of my friends were quite shocked when I told them I won my league's championship and $5200. That sounded great until they asked how much my entry fee was. For $1400 in they were expecting a league prize of at least $8K because our local leagues give 50% of the pot to first place. When I explained there was a chance at $100K on top of the $5200 they understood better. However, i feel they still seemed to think I did not win enough. If that's what the average person thinks, then maybe a smaller grand prize makes some sense.
That said, Glenn's point about joining a satellite is all too true, or an ultimate. I get that too.
Pete CONGRATS Pete on your Primetime league title. That was a heck of an accomplishment. Tell your buds that to grow a carrot -- no matter if it's $50,000 or $100,000 or $300,000 -- some of that money has to come from somewhere. And if we don't provide any carrot, then in the NFFC you can win 8x your entry in a satellite league or Super or Ultimate. Tell your buds that had you won the Ultimate League, your $5,000 entry fee would have netted you $40,000. Each contest is different and in your case not only did you win $5,200 but for 3 weeks you had the thrill of possibly winning $100,000 more.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius