NFL Lockout Thread

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:11 am

You have to admit though, Goodell sure looked like Bush yesterday hanging out the 'MISSION ACCOMPLISHED' banner before all battles were won. I mean, the owners were dancing and giving interviews like the war was over yet nobody told the other side. I've never seen anything like this.

I know the owners felt like most of the deal was done and the two sides had agreed to most of the tough points. But obviously Dee and Roger were on the phone for 90 minutes before the owners voted so there was no way the whole NFLPA board could have seen the final resolution before their conference call to vote on these changes that were made on the private phone call. I think once the players digest the full CBA and have time to go over the details with the NFL, this thing can get resolved and maybe even today or tomorrow.

But it was weird not to have both sides having the same "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" moment. In fact, one side said the war must go on!! Crazy.

The players now have the full CBA. If they recertify as a union, those final points can be hammered out. Let's not fret just yet. It will be another wild day with Dee wanting the attention on him now, but by Wednesday I think free agency will be flowing. Let's hope so.

mkrucek · Post by **mkrucek** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:36 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Agree with all of the points here. Heath Evans looked like a fool on the NFL Network last night. He's not even a player rep. He doesn't know what he's talking about and he goes on live on the NFL Network. What a fool.

Dee Smith needed to have his constituents hold off on the hardline rhetoric last night. If they honestly didn't have the full CBA, then he should have gone in front of the media and said they can't vote at this time because they are still getting the final alterations of the new deal. He should have showed the same unity as the owners and had everyone speaking the same words. Instead, you can tell not everyone is informed and there is a huge communication breakdown among the players. This stems from the leader.

Here's my two questions that nobody seems to be asking:

1. What is this supplemental revenue sharing that Goodell announced and that Dee said he was not involved in? What does that mean? The players are guaranteed that all teams spend 99% of the salary cap over the next two years and not lower than 95% over the remainder of the 10-year deal, so no matter how big the pie gets the players always benefit. So what does the supplemental revenue sharing mean that has Dee upset?

2. Secondly, why is recertification such a big deal? Does the union really believe it won't be a union going forward? Okay, it might take some time and maybe they don't want to be told when they need to recertify, but isn't that needed to settle the final points the union is contending aren't in the final CBA? The owners can't settle those final points until the union recertifies, so why is that such a big deal?

Can anyone help me there? I'll check everywhere for details this morning. I believe the supplemental revenue sharing is between the owners. If small market teams (or any teams) need help financially there is now a system in place to do that.

And the union doesn't need to recertify. They dissolved, a different meaning under labor law. Decertifying would have required a much longer process before the NLRB. They just voted to stop being represented by the NFLPA and the NFLPA said they were no longer representing the players. A fine point, but a point in any event.

The union needs to reform and then the owners recognize them as the bargaining agent. Some of the NFL lawyers are arguing that the union never really went away and therefore there is no need to delay getting this deal done by taking a player by player vote to form a union again, when they are ready. The players' attorneys disagree, in part because they want to preserve certain rights for 10 years from now.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:04 am

That makes sense 4D. But why are the players worried about the owners sharing revenue. There is a minimum cap that each team has to spend ALL 10 YEARS and that is 99 percent these first two years and 95 percent the last eight years. Who cares who the owners divvy up all of this revenue as long as $50 billion is going to the players over 10 years? Wow.

I know the union doesn't need to recertify and doesn't want to be pushed into recertifying by the NFL, but to get this deal done and the unfinished points done the NFL needs to do that with a unified bargaining agent. It seems like Dee is holding out for some reason when at the end of the day everyone knows the union will recertify. You could see Pash take a snipe at the union's original decertification, but he left the stand yesterday before saying what he really wanted to say.

Thanks for clarifying. That helps.

Erok · Post by **Erok** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:03 am

I have a good idea of the collective bargaining process so let me explain and offer my opinion of what happened:

(The media speculation on this has been horrible and sad at the same time.)

1. Almost all of the 1800 players really DON'T have any idea what is going on. They werent part of any negotiations. (So Stallworth and Evans giving phone interviews talking about this is absurd. Those two were not involved in anything and they are not even player representatives. They have no idea what they are talking about and should be muzzled by D. Smith.)

The only players who really know what is going on and know the inter workings of the CBA proposed are the ones on the negotiating team (Jeff Saturday, Dominique Foxworth, Charlie Batch, and the few others.) Thats it!

It appeared that D Smith and this negotiating team got what they thought was a fair deal this week and called the 32 player reps in to look at it and vote on it on Wednesday. (If D Smith and the negotiating team thought they had a good deal then this shouldve been a no brainer to pass. These guys wouldnt have been called in to vote otherwise IMO.) For whatever reason the 32 reps did not vote "yes" on it despite it being presented to them as a "good deal."

I am sure this stunned the owners because they were under the assumption from the NFLPA negotiating team that both parties thought they had a fair deal. It obviously ticked the owners off too as they carried forward with their plans to ratify the agreement Thursday. It appeared that the phone conversation between D Smith and the Commish yesterday D Smith trying to get more things changed in the CBA. Obviously the owners and the commish refused being they thought both parties had agreed to a fair deal, so they ratified it.

That is essentially what happened. That is why you have player reps saying they were hoodwinked or didnt get what they wanted,etc......because the owners passed the deal that D Smith and the negotiating team thought was fair, not the ones the player reps wanted to be passed (It is really shocking the player reps did not listen to D Smith on this. It clearly indicates there is in house fighting going on now. It seems these reps have a problem with league discipline issues, which to have this brought up at this point is unbelievable). Nevertheless, this debacle ultimately falls on D Smith and the negotiating team because they failed to convince the player reps to accept this deal.

So like I said, the negotiating team knows everything , but that is only a handful of guys. The 32 reps know the main parts of the new CBA proposed by the owners. The rest of the players really do not know anything other than what their buddies may have told them......that is why Heath Evans really needs to be quite!

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:18 am

The NFLPA's player reps just emailed a letter to players saying, "We will meet again Monday to discuss our options and the direction we want to go." Oh boy, now no vote until Monday at the earliest. Amazing. These negotiators treat weekends like holidays.

Everyone agrees a deal will get done and the players will do it in their own time. They won't be pushed into a deal on the league's time schedule and they won't recertify under the league's guidelines, so we all wait for their egos to come down a little bit. Let's hope the players have thoroughly gone through the new CBA by Monday and the little items have been figured out so that a vote can be done. Maybe camps can still open by Wednesday, along with free agency.

Have a good weekend all. The lockout continues through another weekend. My family draft happens this weekend, even before the lockout ends. Amazing.

kentucky · Post by **kentucky** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:26 am

I have been involved in Union negotiations in the past. The rule from the union was to never accept the first agreement placed in front of them from the company. There was always the feeling the first proposed agreement was leaning too much toward the company, whether it was or not, so the union would vote it down and hold out for another "chip". Time was money for the company, so back to the table they would go. Not sure exactly who has the upper hand in this, but we'll surely find out by Tuesday.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:44 am

If this lockout goes on much longer we may have to discuss whether this will be an asterisk season or not.

Wow.

The rhetoric has quieted today and reports are that the two sides are still working through the weekend. You have to believe they will work through this and the NFLPA will vote by Monday at the latest. They can't let this go past Wednesday or we're going to lose the first week of the pre-season. These final points can be hashed out by Monday. I can't believe it takes longer than that and when you put this to a vote 50% of players will ratify it.

I must say though, someone needs to publish a list of the 32 player reps, at least the 10 at the negotiating table through all of this. They must be wiped out by all of this. This is more work than they bargained for. I wouldn't doubt if it's affected their offseason workout schedules.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:05 am

If you think the NFL lockout is disappointing, check out the debt ceiling talks now. Our government is even more dysfunctional than our favorite sport. President press conference now and new idea to settle debt problems at 11th hour. This isn't going to go well for our country; hopefully our league settles its dispute before the government does.

SS · Post by SS » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:00 pm

Lets hope both get the job done, because if the government doesn't get this done, we may be headed towards a double dip recession and that's not good for anyone, including the NFL.