QB points

[ForLoveOfTheGame]

I think every site/league should look at their scoring every year, doesn't mean you have to change anything, but at least take a look. We do in my home league every year. NFFC does too (another reason I love it here). One thing I'll say for sure is that NFFC started 10 years ago correct? Like someone else said, the game has changed. Just looking quickly at 2003 numbers to last year (since it's a complete year and this year isn't):

Almost 1,300 more passes thrown!
Almost 16,000 more yards passed for!
Over 100 more touchdown passes!

That's a LOT more points being scored than when they first created this scoring system. If QB's had been slinging it around like this maybe they would have made scoring lower for them... maybe not? I'm just tossing some facts into the ring.

If you want to talk about the change that I personally think should be made in fantasy football it's going to 2 QBs. I feel that we are at an all time high of QB1's so every site just screams wait at QB. I didn't even care what QB I got this year, never in my life have I not cared who I got at a position. Changing to 2 QB's would change that drastically. I wouldn't want to see NFFC go to 2 QB's though as their scoring is too high for that imho. If QB scoring was lower I think it would be a great change for fantasy football.

PPR just equals out the RB's and WR's. I mean look at Calvin, take PPR away and he's 100 points behind the top RB. I will never play again at a site that doesn't have PPR. It was the greatest (and fairest) change I've ever seen to fantasy football since I've been playing and don't think it'll ever be topped.

[chriseibl]

I think every site/league should look at their scoring every year, doesn't mean you have to change anything, but at least take a look. We do in my home league every year. NFFC does too (another reason I love it here). One thing I'll say for sure is that NFFC started 10 years ago correct? Like someone else said, the game has changed. Just looking quickly at 2003 numbers to last year (since it's a complete year and this year isn't):

Almost 1,300 more passes thrown!
Almost 16,000 more yards passed for!
Over 100 more touchdown passes!

That's a LOT more points being scored than when they first created this scoring system. If QB's had been slinging it around like this maybe they would have made scoring lower for them... maybe not? I'm just tossing some facts into the ring.

If you want to talk about the change that I personally think should be made in fantasy football it's going to 2 QBs. I feel that we are at an all time high of QB1's so every site just screams wait at QB. I didn't even care what QB I got this year, never in my life have I not cared who I got at a position. Changing to 2 QB's would change that drastically. I wouldn't want to see NFFC go to 2 QB's though as their scoring is too high for that imho. If QB scoring was lower I think it would be a great change for fantasy football.

PPR just equals out the RB's and WR's. I mean look at Calvin, take PPR away and he's 100 points behind the top RB. I will never play again at a site that doesn't have PPR. It was the greatest (and fairest) change I've ever seen to fantasy football since I've been playing and don't think it'll ever be topped.

Problem with that is that plenty of people will take zeros with 2 QBs to start. Take the Classic for instance. You have 32 teams yet a need to start 28 QBs each week. (Even 24 is pretty tough to do for primetime). Even if all the QBs were perfectly distrubted amongs the teams, you will have weeks where only 26 are playing. Just a whole bunch of zeroes would be taken. Not a 2 QB fan at all but I do get where you're coming from in that QBs aren't all that valuable and that's the most realistic solution to make them more valuable.

And what people are still forgetting about (when a guy like McCown puts up 51), is that the baseline for a poor QB performance is 19 or so (apologies to Stafford owners)... which would be considered a very good score for an RB/WR. The baseline score for which to compare something like Josh Gordon's 31 is much much lower so their deviation from the norm is not all that different.

I, as well, would never do a non-PPR. Receptions are more predictable than TDs, and as such, chip away at the luck factor some. For that reason I would never do non-PPR.

Chris

[chriseibl]

Let's just say I'll be delighted if this overreaction to QBs scoring 6 points leads to the first rounds of next year's fantasy drafts being littered with QBs.

[Sandman62]

PPR just equals out the RB's and WR's. I mean look at Calvin, take PPR away and he's 100 points behind the top RB.

Not if you remove PPR for RBs too. Charles would lose 57 points, so his non-PPR total would be 238 vs. 206 for Calvin - just 32 points. And subjectively, which of them has had the better season?

[Sandman62]

I, as well, would never do a non-PPR. Receptions are more predictable than TDs, and as such, chip away at the luck factor some. For that reason I would never do non-PPR.

Chris

But they do so at the expense of most [non-stud] RBs because RBs don't get as many points just for TOUCHING the ball, they have to MOVE it. WRs are essentially, double-dipping. If a WR is really an integral part of his team, then his receiving yards should support that.

But using PPR, WRs tend to dominate (twice as many in top 25 as RBs).

Top 100 WR/RB/TE Sorted By PPR Rank:
Top 25 Position Breakdown:
RB: 8, WR: 16, TE: 1

Rank Points
PPR NoPPR Player PPR NoPPR
1 1 Charles, Jamaal (KC) 295.1 238.1
2 5 Johnson, Calvin (DET) 281.1 206.1
3 3 Forte, Matt (CHI) 278.1 213.1
4 8 Gordon, Josh (CLE) 265.6 194.6
5 9 Graham, Jimmy (NO) 262.6 188.6
6 2 McCoy, LeSean (PHI) 261.4 221.4
7 12 Brown, Antonio (PIT) 257.1 167.1
8 4 Moreno, Knowshon (DEN) P 256.5 208.5
9 10 Thomas, Demaryius (DEN) P 254.9 180.9
10 15 Johnson, Andre (HOU) 252.7 157.7
11 13 Marshall, Brandon (CHI) 251.0 167.0
12 14 Green, A.J. (CIN) 243.5 165.5
13 11 Jeffery, Alshon (CHI) 243.1 168.1
14 6 Peterson, Adrian (MIN) DP 230.0 202.0
15 17 Decker, Eric (DEN) P 226.8 155.8
16 7 Lynch, Marshawn (SEA) 225.6 198.6
17 19 Jackson, DeSean (PHI) 220.0 155.0
18 23 Bryant, Dez (DAL) 219.9 149.9
19 24 Nelson, Jordy (GB) 213.6 146.6
20 31 Welker, Wes (DEN) O 209.8 136.8
21 41 Garcon, Pierre (WAS) 209.6 120.6
22 30 Fitzgerald, Larry (ARI) 204.2 137.2
23 28 Jackson, Vincent (TB) 203.3 139.3
24 16 Bush, Reggie (DET) 202.2 157.2
25 34 Woodhead, Danny (SD) 197.4 132.4
26 37 Cameron, Jordan (CLE) FP 196.5 124.5
27 20 Murray, DeMarco (DAL) 195.0 154.0
28 42 Cruz, Victor (NYG) 191.3 120.3
29 18 Johnson, Chris (TEN) 190.7 155.7
30 26 Bernard, Giovani (CIN) 190.3 143.3
31 40 Boldin, Anquan (SF) 188.5 121.5
32 49 Edelman, Julian (NE) 186.6 110.6
33 25 Jackson, Fred (BUF) 185.4 144.4
34 29 Davis, Vernon (SF) 181.6 137.6
35 46 Thomas, Pierre (NO) 181.1 117.1
36 43 Allen, Keenan (SD) P 180.2 119.2
37 36 Thomas, Julius (DEN) P 178.5 128.5
38 22 Lacy, Eddie (GB) DP 177.3 150.3
38 39 Smith, Torrey (BAL) 177.3 122.3
40 52 Hartline, Brian (MIA) 176.5 109.5
41 32 Bell, Joique (DET) 173.0 135.0
42 48 Clay, Charles (MIA) 171.3 111.3
43 54 Gonzalez, Tony (ATL) LP 170.8 105.8
44 64 Wright, Kendall (TEN) 170.7 97.7
45 59 Douglas, Harry (ATL) 170.6 102.6
46 47 Floyd, Michael (ARI) DP 168.6 112.6
47 50 Hilton, T.Y. (IND) 168.4 110.4
48 21 Gore, Frank (SF) 166.6 151.6
49 35 Jones-Drew, Maurice (JAX) DP 166.2 132.2
50 69 Shorts III, Cecil (JAX) DP 161.7 95.7
51 73 Gates, Antonio (SD) 161.6 93.6
52 38 Bell, Le'Veon (PIT) 160.7 122.7
53 57 Witten, Jason (DAL) 160.2 105.2
54 61 Sanders, Emmanuel (PIT) 159.4 101.4
55 45 Cooper, Riley (PHI) 154.2 117.2
55 66 Wallace, Mike (MIA) 154.2 96.2
57 33 Mathews, Ryan (SD) 153.2 133.2
58 70 Olsen, Greg (CAR) DP 153.1 95.1
59 67 Colston, Marques (NO) 152.1 96.1
59 75 Smith, Steve (CAR) 152.1 92.1
61 74 Sproles, Darren (NO) 151.3 93.3
62 51 Cotchery, Jerricho (PIT) FP 151.1 110.1
63 60 Rice, Ray (BAL) 150.4 102.4
64 63 Tate, Golden (SEA) 149.9 97.9
65 27 Morris, Alfred (WAS) 148.6 142.6
66 65 Streater, Rod (OAK) 147.4 97.4
67 81 Bennett, Martellus (CHI) 141.8 88.8
68 55 Jones, Marvin (CIN) LP 140.7 105.7
69 80 Bowe, Dwayne (KC) 139.3 90.3
70 44 Stacy, Zac (STL) 138.4 118.4
71 72 Baldwin, Doug (SEA) 137.2 94.2
72 53 Jennings, Rashad (OAK) FP 135.3 107.3
73 58 Tate, Ben (HOU) LP 134.9 103.9
74 85 Fleener, Coby (IND) 134.5 85.5
75 88 Graham, Garrett (HOU) DP 132.5 83.5
76 77 Austin, Tavon (STL) DP 131.9 91.9
77 84 LaFell, Brandon (CAR) 131.2 86.2
78 91 Johnson, Stevie (BUF) 130.3 79.3
79 62 Ellington, Andre (ARI) LP 129.1 99.1
79 75 Randle, Rueben (NYG) 129.1 92.1
81 86 Rodgers, Jacquizz (ATL) 128.8 83.8
82 79 Royal, Eddie (SD) Q 128.1 91.1
83 94 Nicks, Hakeem (NYG) 127.9 78.9
84 87 Cook, Jared (STL) 126.6 83.6
85 90 Hopkins, DeAndre (HOU) LP 125.7 81.7
86 83 Moore, Denarius (OAK) LP 123.9 86.9
87 97 Jennings, Greg (MIN) 123.0 75.0
88 89 Gronkowski, Rob (NE) IR 122.2 83.2
89 92 Washington, Nate (TEN) 122.1 79.1
89 82 Williams, Terrance (DAL) 122.1 87.1
91 95 Walker, Delanie (TEN) FP 120.4 75.4
92 96 Jones, James (GB) 116.3 75.3
93 98 Simpson, Jerome (MIN) 116.0 73.0
94 78 Spiller, C.J. (BUF) 115.8 91.8
95 56 Ridley, Stevan (NE) 115.3 105.3
96 93 Brown, Marlon (BAL) 115.0 79.0
97 99 Reed, Jordan (WAS) DP 114.7 69.7
98 71 Williams, DeAngelo (CAR) 114.3 94.3
99 68 Mendenhall, Rashard (ARI) 111.0 96.0
100 99 Jones, Julio (ATL) IR 110.7 69.7

Top 100 WR/RB/TE Sorted By NoPPR Rank:
Top 25 Position Breakdown:
RB: 11, WR: 12, TE: 1

Rank Points
PPR NoPPR Player PPR NoPPR
1 1 Charles, Jamaal (KC) 295.1 238.1
6 2 McCoy, LeSean (PHI) 261.4 221.4
3 3 Forte, Matt (CHI) 278.1 213.1
8 4 Moreno, Knowshon (DEN) P 256.5 208.5
2 5 Johnson, Calvin (DET) 281.1 206.1
14 6 Peterson, Adrian (MIN) DP 230.0 202.0
16 7 Lynch, Marshawn (SEA) 225.6 198.6
4 8 Gordon, Josh (CLE) 265.6 194.6
5 9 Graham, Jimmy (NO) 262.6 188.6
9 10 Thomas, Demaryius (DEN) P 254.9 180.9
13 11 Jeffery, Alshon (CHI) 243.1 168.1
7 12 Brown, Antonio (PIT) 257.1 167.1
11 13 Marshall, Brandon (CHI) 251.0 167.0
12 14 Green, A.J. (CIN) 243.5 165.5
10 15 Johnson, Andre (HOU) 252.7 157.7
24 16 Bush, Reggie (DET) 202.2 157.2
15 17 Decker, Eric (DEN) P 226.8 155.8
29 18 Johnson, Chris (TEN) 190.7 155.7
17 19 Jackson, DeSean (PHI) 220.0 155.0
27 20 Murray, DeMarco (DAL) 195.0 154.0
48 21 Gore, Frank (SF) 166.6 151.6
38 22 Lacy, Eddie (GB) DP 177.3 150.3
18 23 Bryant, Dez (DAL) 219.9 149.9
19 24 Nelson, Jordy (GB) 213.6 146.6
33 25 Jackson, Fred (BUF) 185.4 144.4
30 26 Bernard, Giovani (CIN) 190.3 143.3
65 27 Morris, Alfred (WAS) 148.6 142.6
23 28 Jackson, Vincent (TB) 203.3 139.3
34 29 Davis, Vernon (SF) 181.6 137.6
22 30 Fitzgerald, Larry (ARI) 204.2 137.2
20 31 Welker, Wes (DEN) O 209.8 136.8
41 32 Bell, Joique (DET) 173.0 135.0
57 33 Mathews, Ryan (SD) 153.2 133.2
25 34 Woodhead, Danny (SD) 197.4 132.4
49 35 Jones-Drew, Maurice (JAX) DP 166.2 132.2
37 36 Thomas, Julius (DEN) P 178.5 128.5
26 37 Cameron, Jordan (CLE) FP 196.5 124.5
52 38 Bell, Le'Veon (PIT) 160.7 122.7
38 39 Smith, Torrey (BAL) 177.3 122.3
31 40 Boldin, Anquan (SF) 188.5 121.5
21 41 Garcon, Pierre (WAS) 209.6 120.6
28 42 Cruz, Victor (NYG) 191.3 120.3
36 43 Allen, Keenan (SD) P 180.2 119.2
70 44 Stacy, Zac (STL) 138.4 118.4
55 45 Cooper, Riley (PHI) 154.2 117.2
35 46 Thomas, Pierre (NO) 181.1 117.1
46 47 Floyd, Michael (ARI) DP 168.6 112.6
42 48 Clay, Charles (MIA) 171.3 111.3
32 49 Edelman, Julian (NE) 186.6 110.6
47 50 Hilton, T.Y. (IND) 168.4 110.4
62 51 Cotchery, Jerricho (PIT) FP 151.1 110.1
40 52 Hartline, Brian (MIA) 176.5 109.5
72 53 Jennings, Rashad (OAK) FP 135.3 107.3
43 54 Gonzalez, Tony (ATL) LP 170.8 105.8
68 55 Jones, Marvin (CIN) LP 140.7 105.7
95 56 Ridley, Stevan (NE) 115.3 105.3
53 57 Witten, Jason (DAL) 160.2 105.2
73 58 Tate, Ben (HOU) LP 134.9 103.9
45 59 Douglas, Harry (ATL) 170.6 102.6
63 60 Rice, Ray (BAL) 150.4 102.4
54 61 Sanders, Emmanuel (PIT) 159.4 101.4
79 62 Ellington, Andre (ARI) LP 129.1 99.1
64 63 Tate, Golden (SEA) 149.9 97.9
44 64 Wright, Kendall (TEN) 170.7 97.7
66 65 Streater, Rod (OAK) 147.4 97.4
55 66 Wallace, Mike (MIA) 154.2 96.2
59 67 Colston, Marques (NO) 152.1 96.1
99 68 Mendenhall, Rashard (ARI) 111.0 96.0
50 69 Shorts III, Cecil (JAX) DP 161.7 95.7
58 70 Olsen, Greg (CAR) DP 153.1 95.1
98 71 Williams, DeAngelo (CAR) 114.3 94.3
71 72 Baldwin, Doug (SEA) 137.2 94.2
51 73 Gates, Antonio (SD) 161.6 93.6
61 74 Sproles, Darren (NO) 151.3 93.3
59 75 Smith, Steve (CAR) 152.1 92.1
79 75 Randle, Rueben (NYG) 129.1 92.1
76 77 Austin, Tavon (STL) DP 131.9 91.9
94 78 Spiller, C.J. (BUF) 115.8 91.8
82 79 Royal, Eddie (SD) Q 128.1 91.1
69 80 Bowe, Dwayne (KC) 139.3 90.3
67 81 Bennett, Martellus (CHI) 141.8 88.8
89 82 Williams, Terrance (DAL) 122.1 87.1
86 83 Moore, Denarius (OAK) LP 123.9 86.9
77 84 LaFell, Brandon (CAR) 131.2 86.2
74 85 Fleener, Coby (IND) 134.5 85.5
81 86 Rodgers, Jacquizz (ATL) 128.8 83.8
84 87 Cook, Jared (STL) 126.6 83.6
75 88 Graham, Garrett (HOU) DP 132.5 83.5
88 89 Gronkowski, Rob (NE) IR 122.2 83.2
85 90 Hopkins, DeAndre (HOU) LP 125.7 81.7
78 91 Johnson, Stevie (BUF) 130.3 79.3
89 92 Washington, Nate (TEN) 122.1 79.1
96 93 Brown, Marlon (BAL) 115.0 79.0
83 94 Nicks, Hakeem (NYG) 127.9 78.9
91 95 Walker, Delanie (TEN) FP 120.4 75.4
92 96 Jones, James (GB) 116.3 75.3
87 97 Jennings, Greg (MIN) 123.0 75.0
93 98 Simpson, Jerome (MIN) 116.0 73.0
97 99 Reed, Jordan (WAS) DP 114.7 69.7
100 99 Jones, Julio (ATL) IR 110.7 69.7

[TR]

PPR just equals out the RB's and WR's. I mean look at Calvin, take PPR away and he's 100 points behind the top RB.

Not if you remove PPR for RBs too. Charles would lose 57 points, so his non-PPR total would be 238 vs. 206 for Calvin - just 32 points. And subjectively, which of them has had the better season?

I think it should go back to .5 PPR for RBs...far too easy to just load up on WRs and take a chance on receiving back specialist like a Pierre Thomas/Shane Vereen/Woodhead in later rds who get 5-10 receptions per game...basically giving them a TD and devaluing true feature backs like Lynch.

[Coach JP]

That list is exactly why non-PPR is pre-historic

Kendall Wright, the #1 guy in the Titans passing game, ranks 64th behind some WR4's that are incredibly inconsistent.

Cecil Shorts, the #1 guy in the Jaguars passing game, ranks 69th.

Guys like Cotchery and Marvin Jones skyrocket due to the luck that comes from TD's despite doing nothing for almost 65% of the season.

The value of a player should be based on his usage percentage, not his luck. If you want to balance out the RB's add a fractional point per carry and everything is back to normal when WR's flood the top 15.

[TR]

That list is exactly why non-PPR is pre-historic

Kendall Wright, the #1 guy in the Titans passing game, ranks 64th behind some WR4's that are incredibly inconsistent.

Cecil Shorts, the #1 guy in the Jaguars passing game, ranks 69th.

Guys like Cotchery and Marvin Jones skyrocket due to the luck that comes from TD's despite doing nothing for almost 65% of the season.

The value of a player should be based on his usage percentage, not his luck. If you want to balance out the RB's add a fractional point per carry and everything is back to normal when WR's flood the top 15.

If based on usage percentage than RBs should go back to .5 PPR or the fractional pt per carry like you suggest...guy like Lynch can get like 25 carries for over a 100 yards yet only get like 16 pts tops if he scores a TD...while a 3rd down RB like an ogbonaya who catches 5 passes a game can get double digits with just 50 yards and not even scoring a TD...but pretty much being gifted a TD thru 5-6 short catches that can even go for minimal yards or losses.

[Coltsfan]

Congrats to the guys who are doing well this year.


Wayne

[Sandman62]

That list is exactly why non-PPR is pre-historic

Kendall Wright, the #1 guy in the Titans passing game, ranks 64th behind some WR4's that are incredibly inconsistent.

Cecil Shorts, the #1 guy in the Jaguars passing game, ranks 69th.

Guys like Cotchery and Marvin Jones skyrocket due to the luck that comes from TD's despite doing nothing for almost 65% of the season.

The value of a player should be based on his usage percentage, not his luck. If you want to balance out the RB's add a fractional point per carry and everything is back to normal when WR's flood the top 15.

Good points.