Motion to Eliminate Kickers (from at least the Slow Drafts)

RiFF
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Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:00 pm

Re: Motion to Eliminate Kickers (from at least the Slow Draf

Post by RiFF » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:51 pm

eliasond wrote:Here's a bit of an argument against the "do your research" camp. In the NFFC 12-team DC ADP list I just printed out on Aug 27, here's a few kickers on the list:

#2 Prater
#14 Graham
#16 Henery
#18 Feely
#21 Succop

Does this mean the majority of us are idiots? Granted Succop just got signed. But these are not among the last 10-11 starting kickers usually taken, which I would consider the true risky picks. Most of these guys have had solid years recently. Heck, Feely went 30-36 last year with 3 from 50+. That's a pretty good year, and something people who did their research would know. NFL teams bring in multiple kickers every year to compete, sometimes the new guys wins out, most often not. And evidently everyone who drafted Prater didn't do their research. So how about the random owner that drafted Prater as his/her #1, then one of those next 3 as their #2, then a back-end guy as their #3. Are they stupid or is it a bit of bad luck?

I'm starting to lean more and more toward supporting the "team kicker" concept for the DC format. Would those be any less fun or less competitive if we did that?

I'd also like to see Greg or Tom weigh in on this topic, since ultimately they are the dungeon masters.

Daren.


As I said earlier the only surprise, for me, with kickers was Prater's suspension. I was aware of his prior occurance but due to his clean slate for the past few years and the fact he's now 30 years old, I chose to ignore it. I drafted him in a ton of leagues and wished I had gotten him in the other ones. But those situations along with injuries are part of the game. I'm sure I played a part in his #2 ranking as I tried to start with either him or Gostkowki.
All the other kickers you mentioned were in competitions that should have been known by most drafters. Some maybe weren't aware of these competitions, some may have chosen to ignore the warning signs and some may have viewed the ompetition risk as acceptable.
As I also said earlier I had Graham ranked as the 5th highest kicker based on his opportunity in the N.O. offense. Because of his competition I dropped him into the mid 20's, but in a couple cases, based on my team construction, I drafted him higher. But again I was fully aware of the risk.
As I also said earlier, I'd view having a team QB about as plausible as having a team kicker. Again I understand the appeal of this to some, but again, I'd view it as merely simplifying the draft process. In local leagues or other leagues outside the high stakes environment that might make sense....I may be wrong, but I don't believe most players in this format would find that appealing.

eliasond
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:00 pm

Re: Motion to Eliminate Kickers (from at least the Slow Draf

Post by eliasond » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:06 pm

Thanks for your candid but constructive comments - I can appreciate your insight.
Daren E
NFFC Charter Member
3-Time Las Vegas Auction League Champion (2004,2009,2015)
2-time Live Las Vegas Classic League Champion

morons
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Re: Motion to Eliminate Kickers (from at least the Slow Draf

Post by morons » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:40 am

I'm sure everyone that did their research knew Prater was going to be suspended.....In fact, most of us know when his next suspension will be as well....

SGraham and Henery were decent K options because they have the upside of being a K in a high-scoring offense, so I think it was reasonable to make them one of several kickers drafted for a DC team.

Suckup, Barth, Feely, the Tennessee kids, Forbath, a and a few of these other K clowns are bottom-of-the barrel guys and were pretty clearly in camp competitions and could be cut, so it's a risk to take them and I don't see how folks can complain about the outcome of having some of them get cut. They're nice fliers in round 24 instead of WR #12, but you really can't rely on them...

I'm ok with the idea of a "team Kicker" pick, but if we go that way, how about just having one roster spot for "Defense-Special Teams" and include the kicking points with that unit as well?? After all, aren't placekickers a special teams member?? And aren't FG a special teams stat? Why not combine it to one roster spot in the starting lineup? (Besides, the slow draft is kind of boring for that day or two when nothing but K and D are filling up a big orange and gray band across the draft board- makes it kind of look like Jupiter)

I don't like the idea of a waiver/free agent period after the DC/ slow draft is completed. You get 35 rounds, so you can take enough players for backups. I don't see how they could realistically do a "kicker only" FAAB because anyone would be able to bid on the new kickers, not just the schmucks stuck with the kickers who were cut. And if people get a chance to replace cut kickers, shouldn't people get a chance to replace Josh Gordon, Sam Bradford, Charles Sims, Vick Ballard, laVon Brazil, and anyone else who will be missing most or all of the season?? It's a slippery slope to allow a "do over" for DC teams, because that is not how they are set up and you are introducing a new element to that contest.....Oh, and what if there were a bunch of injuries Week 1?? Should there be an Emergency Week 2 FAAB to help those DC teams decimated by injuries??

KenGill
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Re: Motion to Eliminate Kickers (from at least the Slow Draf

Post by KenGill » Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:44 am

Please....enough about team kickers, one time do-overs for dropped kickers, etc. This is getting ridiculous. If you want to eliminate risk entirely, go find something else to do. A guy in my local league took Wes Welker. Shouldn't he have a one-time do-over? After all, it doesn't seem 'fair' that Welker had no history of PED use. And an unexpected 4 game suspension. While we are at it, let's just have a 3 round supplemental draft to cover all possibilities after the regular draft. That would cover guys such as David Wilson. It would cover Ray Rice suspension situations, Josh Gordon stuff, kickers in high scoring offenses who got cut, a QB who unexpectedly was demoted (Schaub). It can cover everything!
I never lost a game. I only ran out of time. Bobby Layne
Kid....if you're going to make it in this league, you're going to have to learn to drink. Bobby Layne

Sandman62
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Location: RI

Re: Motion to Eliminate Kickers (from at least the Slow Draf

Post by Sandman62 » Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:40 am

Interesting, in the daily fantasy game field, DraftKings (who recently also purchased DraftStreet) doesn't even have the kicker position included. Hmm... :idea:

BigBlueNation
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Re: Motion to Eliminate Kickers (from at least the Slow Draf

Post by BigBlueNation » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:03 am

I've always been proactive drafting K's in DCs. For those that choose to forego any K strategy and get burned, sorry. Changing the rules for your indiscretion isn't necessarily the answer. All other position players we draft have backups, handcuffs, etc... Kickers are a part of the fantasy game we play, draft accordingly.
Bill Cleavenger
UK Wildcats...We don't rebuild, we "RELOAD"

Greg Ambrosius
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Re: Motion to Eliminate Kickers (from at least the Slow Draf

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:01 am

I have said this before, but will say it again: The NFFC is not interested in the Team Kicker concept. We understand and appreciate the reasons for it and for those teams who draft early there is more risk involved since we don't have a Week 1 FAAB period, but that's all part of the strategy of constructing a winning roster.

We tend not to simplify your jobs since this is a tough competition. Tough decisions have to be made, even on kickers and defenses. Good luck all and thanks for the constructive discussion on this topic. Lots of good points both ways.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius

BigBlueNation
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Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:00 pm

Re: Motion to Eliminate Kickers (from at least the Slow Draf

Post by BigBlueNation » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:17 am

Greg Ambrosius wrote:I have said this before, but will say it again: The NFFC is not interested in the Team Kicker concept. We understand and appreciate the reasons for it and for those teams who draft early there is more risk involved since we don't have a Week 1 FAAB period, but that's all part of the strategy of constructing a winning roster.

We tend not to simplify your jobs since this is a tough competition. Tough decisions have to be made, even on kickers and defenses. Good luck all and thanks for the constructive discussion on this topic. Lots of good points both ways.
Thanks Greg for your response. A couple years ago I was on board with a change to "D/ST/K" as a position in the NFFC drafts. The idea was vehemently discarded. I'm 100% with PK being a position in the NFFC. That being said, I've adjusted my strategy regarding PKs to play within the NFFC rules.
Bill Cleavenger
UK Wildcats...We don't rebuild, we "RELOAD"

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