How would you feel?

renman · Post by **renman** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:14 pm

Originally posted by BONGIZMO:
I will say as a paying member I would be absolutely jacked if management went and adjusted my team because they thought it needed to be a certain way. I would expect they best contact me first since I payed my money and can do whatever I want with players.

Let me throw this out there. Let's say I am in a league with someone that has over the years been an SOB to me and others. Let's say that my team sucks, everyone gets hurt and I am out of the running for any money. I paid for my team and should be allowed to play it out anyway I choose. I can thus try to beat the owner when/if we play. I can hypothetically use all my free agent money to buy every available QB when his has an unfortunate injury which would be a blocking strategy. I could decide that my starters are tired and rest them for my backups. All of these things are legal, maybe not the best sportsmanship but we already know that's ok based on past rulings.

I should be allowed to do whatever it is that lets me enjoy my 'donation' that year even if it is just doing all I can to keep another owner from cashing in.

Oh yes, I'm a nice guy with a long memory...some should think how they treat others cause you never know when pay back could come rotfl. Bong,

With all due respect, the point of the discussion is to make the NFFC an ever improving fantasy football entity. Having said that, just because something wrong or stupid happened in the past does not mean we cannot discuss ways to prevent it in the future.

What happened in your other league is a joke. The purpose of this discussion is to come up with ways to prevent that kind of game playing. I would like to think there will never be a day in the NFFC that things get so petty that guys throw games to hurt another owner that upset them on the playground in the past.

The goal is to make this event the premier fantasy football competition with the best format and highest level of sporting integrity. There are few things that ruin a fantasy football competition and leave a bad taste in the mouth of most who competed, more than when an owner quits on a team and provides some other owner free victories later in the season when things come down to the wire.

Isn't it a worthy discussion to have to talk about ways to improve on this problem?

[ October 01, 2009, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Renman ]

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:30 pm

Originally posted by BONGIZMO:
I will say as a paying member I would be absolutely jacked if management went and adjusted my team because they thought it needed to be a certain way. I would expect they best contact me first since I payed my money and can do whatever I want with players.

Let me throw this out there. Let's say I am in a league with someone that has over the years been an SOB to me and others. Let's say that my team sucks, everyone gets hurt and I am out of the running for any money. I paid for my team and should be allowed to play it out anyway I choose. I can thus try to beat the owner when/if we play. I can hypothetically use all my free agent money to buy every available QB when his has an unfortunate injury which would be a blocking strategy. I could decide that my starters are tired and rest them for my backups. All of these things are legal, maybe not the best sportsmanship but we already know that's ok based on past rulings.

I should be allowed to do whatever it is that lets me enjoy my 'donation' that year even if it is just doing all I can to keep another owner from cashing in.

Oh yes, I'm a nice guy with a long memory...some should think how they treat others cause you never know when pay back could come rotfl. Not surprised or shocked by this at all.
This says it all: From: Chicago

Gordon Gekko II · Post by **Gordon Gekko II** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:38 pm

intersting that a player acting by himself with an "agenda" could possibly constitute collusion.

http://nffcboards.stats.com/cgi-bin/ult ... p=1#000011

Originally posted by Nag':
Greg & Tom. Thanks for your replies. But I have a little bit of a tougher question for you now.

I believe you have said that you will not force teams to submit valid starting lineups, thus allowing "dead teams" to play out the season. Wha IF the lineup submission or lack thereof can be shown as an obvious attempt to help out another team in the standings, which (by all definitions constitutes collusion. Will you then consider stepping in and fixing the problem? The obvious question, of course, will be - how can you truly distinquish a "dead team" and "collusion"? Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Nag, your example is a tough one. We do not sit here on Sundays and look over the starting lineups of every team. It's just not possible to do that and it doesn't make sense.

However, if after the competition is done and an owner alerts us that one team had a full starting lineup the week before and suddenly inserted all inactive players, that could possibly constitute collusion. Someone who inserted an all "dead" lineup isn't a dead owner, he is someone with a different agenda. I have a feeling I know what we'd do in that instance, but I'll react to the situation if/when it happens.

[ October 01, 2009, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko II ]

BONGIZMO · Post by **BONGIZMO** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:41 pm

Renman,

Let's suffice it to say that this has come up for years. here's my comment and greg's response from a few years back. i stand by those comments still...

BONGIZMO
Member
Member # 11

Member Rated:
posted October 24, 2006 10:22 AM
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I do understand what you are saying but the problem lies in who makes the decision of what players get started? What kind of nightmare occurs when the NFFC official who chooses the players starts a Lamont Jordan as he gets injured in pregame warmups? Can you imagine folks lighting up Tom and Greg for the injustice of starting a player that didn't play when a RBBC candidate like Wali Lundy was sitting on the bench? Can you imagine the nightmare of people then calling out the NFFC brass for favoring certain players? Yes dead money stinks but in your effort to keep integrity of the games in place I worry that the integrity of the event might get called into question. The only people that could alter the line ups would be the NFFC folks and we and they have too much to lose if the image is tarnished due to an unfortunate incident that had all to do with luck. I enjoy this event greatly and wouldn't want anything to jeapordize the trust and faith that people have in the NFFC brass. I don't like losing to a team early that quits later giving my opponents the cheap wins but I always have the points way into the show. The key is I want there to be a show to go too...just my .02

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Never do card tricks for the people you play poker with.

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Posts: 481 | From: Chicago | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged |

Greg Ambrosius
Administrator
Member # 2

Member Rated:
posted October 24, 2006 10:32 AM
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Scott is right. It's impossible for the league administrators to get involved in something like this as each owner is required to make out his/her starting lineup each week. It's one of the facets of owning a team. I'm sure in baseball guys have inactive players in their starting lineups as well and that affects other teams who can then pass those teams in certain categories and gain a few extra points. It's one of the bad nuances of fantasy sports, that other owners can determine your fate by being too lazy to click ACTIVE and RESERVE. That's why a lot of you guys gravitated to high-stakes because you were tired of playing in local leagues where owners were lax. You were hopeful that people who pay $1,250 to compete would be attentive all year long, but unfortunately that's not always the case.

There's no perfect formula for having Tom or I set team's starting lineups, so don't have a heated debate over this. It's each owners' prime responsibility to manage their teams and may the best man or woman win.

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Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Editor, Fantasy Sports Magazine

BONGIZMO · Post by **BONGIZMO** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:44 pm

Here is the whole link, funny as it appears Ren and I went back and forth on this then too lol.

http://nffcboards.stats.com/cgi-bin/ult ... 001494;p=1

renman · Post by **renman** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:43 pm

Bong,

I am not saying you are wrong. I am just saying this is a worthy discussion to have. This issue comes up every single year in just about every single fantasy sports league I have been in over the last 20 years.

There is a reason for that.

My sole point is that I believe a thread like this is worthy to have where intelligent and rational fantasy football minds can discuss the issue and maybe by luck, come up with a logical solution. It was through discussions like this that 3RR and KDS emerged.

That is all I am saying.

renman · Post by **renman** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:10 pm

Bong,

I just re read that thread. I stand by what I said 3 years ago...lol On a sidenote, the "non issue" came up in 2007 and 2008.

BLACKHAND · Post by **BLACKHAND** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:22 pm

Originally posted by BONGIZMO:
As someone that was cost money a few years back when my opponent contacted a team that had quit thus allowing him to come back to finally set his team against me after my said opponent had taken the easy win in a prior week, I feel absolutely nothing for you GG in this situation.

Back then on these boards I was greeted with it may be unethical but not illegal and it's part of the game. People pay their money and thusly can manage or mismanage their teams to their hearts content imo.

If it was acceptable for another owner to try and wake up a dormant team at my expense it surely has to be acceptable for an owner to play or not play whomever he wants whenever he wants.

I'm just saying... i think the owner who contacted the sleeping team is as shady as the team who quit. as far as the people who told you it was part of the game , i would call them dopes.if it happened to them they would sing a different song. when you say " I feel absolutely nothing for you GG in this situation " my opinion is that out of all people you should look towards a solution. you know how it feels to get screwed.

Sound Advice · Post by **Sound Advice** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:45 pm

Oct. 24th 2006: (the times change, but some things remain constant.)

"Plain and simple.

You want the dead money players to beat your opponents...so your weak team can sneak into the playoffs via better record.

Am I correct?

Integrity my butt. The above statement is the real motivation for all this crap.

What happens when a team that gives up makes it into the playoffs via points since you keep helping it optimize it's lineup with best avg. scoring players?

~Lance"

BONGIZMO · Post by **BONGIZMO** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:32 am

Originally posted by Sound Advice:
Oct. 24th 2006: (the times change, but some things remain constant.)

"Plain and simple.

You want the dead money players to beat your opponents...so your weak team can sneak into the playoffs via better record.

Am I correct?

Integrity my butt. The above statement is the real motivation for all this crap.

What happens when a team that gives up makes it into the playoffs via points since you keep helping it optimize it's lineup with best avg. scoring players?

~Lance" Very true imo.

[ October 02, 2009, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: BONGIZMO ]