Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Raiders:
Nice writeup Weber.
I'm really tied of hearing that these guys are nice guys. Please stop saying that, because that's far from the truth. They like AFFL ran other contest AFTER they knew they didn't have the money, to me it's just like breaking into your house and stealing.
I would like the Government to get involved and make sure this doesn't happen again year after year. This I believe is the 4 or 5 time that this same thing has happen, not to me and I'm still pissed.
Something needs to be done to protect the Players!
John I will just say that the last thing this industry needs is the government regulating it. In fact, the government probably has more important things to do right now than regulate our industry.
But you are right John, after seeing what AFFL and FJ has done over the last two years, it's time for the industry to police itself again and make this stop. That's why we started the FSTA in 1999 and today I don't see either trade association doing anything to stop this or even inform their members about this. Nobody in the industry came down on Neil or AFFL last year and nobody even wrote a story about that debacle. Now this FJ situation is here again and I don't see the FSTA or the FSA (which I'm the president of) doing anything to bring this to light.
For the players, it's now a "buyer beware" industry. If it looks too good, it probably is. Do your homework on every contest and know the game operators personally. Know more about the companies that run these high-stakes games. Anyone can run a fantasy football game, but it's apparent that not everyone can pay the prizes in a fantasy football game. I'll invite anyone to call me personally and ask about our game, our company backgrounds with NBC Sports and F+W Media, if that helps. We will never have any problem paying back our prizes and I sure hope that our competitors are saying the same thing.
The last thing we need is one more of these companies going down without paying out the winners. Then I'm afraid government intervention will take place, whether we like it or not. [/QUOTE]THE PROBLEM IS GREG IS THAT WHEN "BUYER BEWARE" IS USED THAT IS WHEN NO ONE WINS.
WHAT I MEAN BY THAT THERE IS NOT A FANTASY GAME OPERATOR OUT WHO IS NOT GOING TO SAY HIS OR HER GAME IS LEGIT.
FOR YEARS THE FANTASY JUNGLE WAS LEGIT (FROM WHAT I KNOW I PERSONALLY NEVR PLAYED IN IT.) BUT NOW THEY ARE NOT.
THIS COULD EASILY HAPPEN OTHER OPERATORS AS WELL AT ANY MOMENT.
OF COURSE THEY SELL THE GOODS LIKE THERE DIAMONDS THEN IT COULD BE A LUMP OF COAL IN THE END.
AT NO POINT AS PLAYERS SHOULD WE HAVE TO USE BUYER BEWARE BECAUSE THEN PEOPLE WOULD WIND UP PLAYING IN NOTHING DUE TO THE FEAR OF NOT GETTING PAID.
IT'S JUST A REALLY JACKED UP SITUATION. I JUST HOPE NO OTHER PLAYERS HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS WITH ANY MORE GAME OPERATORS.
Fantasy Jungle STILL HAS NOT PAID?
Fantasy Jungle STILL HAS NOT PAID?
My biggest problem with Fantasy Jungle (specifically Mike, who I have been in contact with) is the fact that they (he) simply LIED to me in mid-January.
1) Here is an e-mail I sent to Mike asking for my money I won from the Main Event ($1,000) to be sent to me rather than be a "credit". I am also owed a "free high roller team" because I won a $100 free HR entry league. That is $1,200 they have and don't have to return a dime. Basically, there were AT LEAST 3 of those, and probably 8 or more $50 leagues ($600) taken in where THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO RETURN A DIME....JUST FREE ENTRIES!!!!
Anyways, here is Mike's reply to my original e-mail below....
Yes Billy I got your note and i submitted it to accounting as you wanted them paid instead of
holding as a credit.
We are mailing the checks after the Super Bowl per the long e mail we sent out back in early
December so no they have not been mailed yet.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
To: Mike Williams <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:22:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Prize $$$
Mike,
I sent you an e-mail a week a week and a half ago about getting my (2)
$500 prize checks now (instead of applying them to next year). I never
heard anything back. Are the checks on their way?
Just wondering.
Hope all is good!
BillyWaz
OK, so here is my issue. WHY would Mike tell me that, when he knew DAMN WELL he wouldn't be able to pay??? Basically, I have had a few other e-mails with Mike since then, and he doesn't feel he should be lumped into the "Neil Wickham club". Neil was at least HONEST with his customers. I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone who lies to save their ass. Mike could of said, "Billy, we are having some financial problems", and while I wouldn't have been happy about it, I could still respect him a little.
This is a company that I played with since 2004, and have done NOTHING but praise their customer service (saying it was the next best thing to the NFFC), and have recommended their service to MANY people. And this is how I get shafted....THANKS A LOT MIKE!!!!
For as bad as AFFL got, they STILL offered credit this past season for the 2007 winners, and I KNOW FOR A FACT they paid.
When you take people's money, GUARANTEE prizes, and then don't pay IT IS STEALING!!!! I don't care whether you spent the money on your own personal items, or you simply made a poor financial investment, the money SHOULD BE PAID TO IT'S RIGHTFUL OWNERS, or you should be in jail...PERIOD!!!! We aren't talking about a couple of thousand dollars here as a whole....we are talking about HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS!!!!
Being dishonest with your customers is going to make you FAR WORSE than Neil Wickham, Mike.
To quote Spike Lee....
DO THE RIGHT THING!!!
[ April 12, 2009, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
1) Here is an e-mail I sent to Mike asking for my money I won from the Main Event ($1,000) to be sent to me rather than be a "credit". I am also owed a "free high roller team" because I won a $100 free HR entry league. That is $1,200 they have and don't have to return a dime. Basically, there were AT LEAST 3 of those, and probably 8 or more $50 leagues ($600) taken in where THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO RETURN A DIME....JUST FREE ENTRIES!!!!
Anyways, here is Mike's reply to my original e-mail below....
Yes Billy I got your note and i submitted it to accounting as you wanted them paid instead of
holding as a credit.
We are mailing the checks after the Super Bowl per the long e mail we sent out back in early
December so no they have not been mailed yet.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
To: Mike Williams <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:22:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Prize $$$
Mike,
I sent you an e-mail a week a week and a half ago about getting my (2)
$500 prize checks now (instead of applying them to next year). I never
heard anything back. Are the checks on their way?
Just wondering.
Hope all is good!
BillyWaz
OK, so here is my issue. WHY would Mike tell me that, when he knew DAMN WELL he wouldn't be able to pay??? Basically, I have had a few other e-mails with Mike since then, and he doesn't feel he should be lumped into the "Neil Wickham club". Neil was at least HONEST with his customers. I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone who lies to save their ass. Mike could of said, "Billy, we are having some financial problems", and while I wouldn't have been happy about it, I could still respect him a little.
This is a company that I played with since 2004, and have done NOTHING but praise their customer service (saying it was the next best thing to the NFFC), and have recommended their service to MANY people. And this is how I get shafted....THANKS A LOT MIKE!!!!
For as bad as AFFL got, they STILL offered credit this past season for the 2007 winners, and I KNOW FOR A FACT they paid.
When you take people's money, GUARANTEE prizes, and then don't pay IT IS STEALING!!!! I don't care whether you spent the money on your own personal items, or you simply made a poor financial investment, the money SHOULD BE PAID TO IT'S RIGHTFUL OWNERS, or you should be in jail...PERIOD!!!! We aren't talking about a couple of thousand dollars here as a whole....we are talking about HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS!!!!
Being dishonest with your customers is going to make you FAR WORSE than Neil Wickham, Mike.
To quote Spike Lee....
DO THE RIGHT THING!!!
[ April 12, 2009, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
Fantasy Jungle STILL HAS NOT PAID?
I have a $500 team owed to me. That will obviously never come about now.
Why can't the FSA or FSTA require that entry fees be escrowed to be a member of the association? This way, only those operators who can guarantee prize funds availability can don the association logo.
It makes one leery to join any league that is not guaranteed.
Is escrowing the funds even enough guarantee?
Man this is frustrating!
Why can't the FSA or FSTA require that entry fees be escrowed to be a member of the association? This way, only those operators who can guarantee prize funds availability can don the association logo.
It makes one leery to join any league that is not guaranteed.
Is escrowing the funds even enough guarantee?
Man this is frustrating!
2008- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
Fantasy Jungle STILL HAS NOT PAID?
Originally posted by Just Russ:
I have a $500 team owed to me. That will obviously never come about now.
Russ,
I'm kind of glad that you kicked my butt in that league now.
Last year was the first year I played Fantasy Jungle and unfortunately (or fortunately) I didn't win my league. I honestly didn't like the all play format (even though I thought I would) and I really like 14 team leagues much better. I wasn't going to play it again this year regardless. But I sure do hope that the winners end up at least getting some of the money that is owed to them. Would this be an opportunity to bring some of their customers into the NFFC this year?
Wayne
I have a $500 team owed to me. That will obviously never come about now.
Russ,
I'm kind of glad that you kicked my butt in that league now.
Last year was the first year I played Fantasy Jungle and unfortunately (or fortunately) I didn't win my league. I honestly didn't like the all play format (even though I thought I would) and I really like 14 team leagues much better. I wasn't going to play it again this year regardless. But I sure do hope that the winners end up at least getting some of the money that is owed to them. Would this be an opportunity to bring some of their customers into the NFFC this year?
Wayne
Fantasy Jungle STILL HAS NOT PAID?
Wayne, it was quite the smallest of victories for me as my ONLY league win last season. It now seems quite a fitting end to my 2008 season!
Argh!!!
Argh!!!
2008- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.
Fantasy Jungle STILL HAS NOT PAID?
I like the idea of having the prize money escrowed with an association like the FSA or FSTA that is talked about. This would protect the players much more than we are now. It appears we have very few options right now if a site cant or doesnt want to pay the winners. What am I suppose to do to try to collect the 5k that is owed to me? It seems like the cost of legal actions would wipe out my winnings anyhow!
I played here for the first time last year and had a prize check right around the 1st of the year as well as another check shortly after the contest ended. I appreciate that a lot but what are the guarantees with the NFFC or most any other contest out there? The FJ guaranteed payment and now I might not see that. I took 3rd in the Jungle last year and I think have cashed every year I played since '05 and have had no issues collecting. I loved playing there and promoted the site all the time. I never saw this coming as they have had excellent customer service ever since I had been with them and the number of entries were growing every year. Now im left not trusting anyone!
I played here for the first time last year and had a prize check right around the 1st of the year as well as another check shortly after the contest ended. I appreciate that a lot but what are the guarantees with the NFFC or most any other contest out there? The FJ guaranteed payment and now I might not see that. I took 3rd in the Jungle last year and I think have cashed every year I played since '05 and have had no issues collecting. I loved playing there and promoted the site all the time. I never saw this coming as they have had excellent customer service ever since I had been with them and the number of entries were growing every year. Now im left not trusting anyone!
Fantasy Jungle STILL HAS NOT PAID?
Look at all the contest that have taken money over the last fewyears,AFFL,Turfwar,Topfantasysports.com and know looks like fantasy jungle.To me the worst part is when I talk to other people who ask me about fantasy sports the first thing that they always ask, are they going to pay you and are they legit,sad that know we can't say for certain.
[ April 13, 2009, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: J Homer ]
[ April 13, 2009, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: J Homer ]
Fantasy Jungle STILL HAS NOT PAID?
YEAH YOU ARE RIGHT HOMER IT IS SAD. WHILE I ONLY PLAY IN THE "BIG 3" (WHICH I KNOW WE KNOW WHO THOSE ARE) I HAVEN'T BEEN BURNED.
HOPEFULLY I AND NO ONE ELSE WILL GET BURNED ANYMORE.
HOWEVER I CAN SAY IF I AM EVER BURNED BY A "MAJOR OPERATOR" MY HIGH STAKES FANTASY CAREER WOULD BE OVER.
HOPEFULLY I AND NO ONE ELSE WILL GET BURNED ANYMORE.
HOWEVER I CAN SAY IF I AM EVER BURNED BY A "MAJOR OPERATOR" MY HIGH STAKES FANTASY CAREER WOULD BE OVER.
Fantasy Jungle STILL HAS NOT PAID?
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Raiders:
Nice writeup Weber.
I'm really tied of hearing that these guys are nice guys. Please stop saying that, because that's far from the truth. They like AFFL ran other contest AFTER they knew they didn't have the money, to me it's just like breaking into your house and stealing.
I would like the Government to get involved and make sure this doesn't happen again year after year. This I believe is the 4 or 5 time that this same thing has happen, not to me and I'm still pissed.
Something needs to be done to protect the Players!
John I will just say that the last thing this industry needs is the government regulating it. In fact, the government probably has more important things to do right now than regulate our industry.
But you are right John, after seeing what AFFL and FJ has done over the last two years, it's time for the industry to police itself again and make this stop. That's why we started the FSTA in 1999 and today I don't see either trade association doing anything to stop this or even inform their members about this. Nobody in the industry came down on Neil or AFFL last year and nobody even wrote a story about that debacle. Now this FJ situation is here again and I don't see the FSTA or the FSA (which I'm the president of) doing anything to bring this to light.
For the players, it's now a "buyer beware" industry. If it looks too good, it probably is. Do your homework on every contest and know the game operators personally. Know more about the companies that run these high-stakes games. Anyone can run a fantasy football game, but it's apparent that not everyone can pay the prizes in a fantasy football game. I'll invite anyone to call me personally and ask about our game, our company backgrounds with NBC Sports and F+W Media, if that helps. We will never have any problem paying back our prizes and I sure hope that our competitors are saying the same thing.
The last thing we need is one more of these companies going down without paying out the winners. Then I'm afraid government intervention will take place, whether we like it or not. [/QUOTE]Greg you don't have to sell yourself to anyone..
i do think though that everyone should be required to either have an insurance policy in place for prizes or escrow it. one way or another. thats not too much to ask any contest in my opinion..
quote:Originally posted by Raiders:
Nice writeup Weber.
I'm really tied of hearing that these guys are nice guys. Please stop saying that, because that's far from the truth. They like AFFL ran other contest AFTER they knew they didn't have the money, to me it's just like breaking into your house and stealing.
I would like the Government to get involved and make sure this doesn't happen again year after year. This I believe is the 4 or 5 time that this same thing has happen, not to me and I'm still pissed.
Something needs to be done to protect the Players!
John I will just say that the last thing this industry needs is the government regulating it. In fact, the government probably has more important things to do right now than regulate our industry.
But you are right John, after seeing what AFFL and FJ has done over the last two years, it's time for the industry to police itself again and make this stop. That's why we started the FSTA in 1999 and today I don't see either trade association doing anything to stop this or even inform their members about this. Nobody in the industry came down on Neil or AFFL last year and nobody even wrote a story about that debacle. Now this FJ situation is here again and I don't see the FSTA or the FSA (which I'm the president of) doing anything to bring this to light.
For the players, it's now a "buyer beware" industry. If it looks too good, it probably is. Do your homework on every contest and know the game operators personally. Know more about the companies that run these high-stakes games. Anyone can run a fantasy football game, but it's apparent that not everyone can pay the prizes in a fantasy football game. I'll invite anyone to call me personally and ask about our game, our company backgrounds with NBC Sports and F+W Media, if that helps. We will never have any problem paying back our prizes and I sure hope that our competitors are saying the same thing.
The last thing we need is one more of these companies going down without paying out the winners. Then I'm afraid government intervention will take place, whether we like it or not. [/QUOTE]Greg you don't have to sell yourself to anyone..
i do think though that everyone should be required to either have an insurance policy in place for prizes or escrow it. one way or another. thats not too much to ask any contest in my opinion..
-
Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36419
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Fantasy Jungle STILL HAS NOT PAID?
Originally posted by Team Legacy:
a buddy of mine lost over a million on a propery investment down in florida. The guys are broke, and a suit now would just lead to bankruptcy. Better to wait and see if they can make something of themselves down the road and then go after em.
I made my thoughts known about the Fantasy Jungle at the 48:30 mark of this Friday's show.
I'll always play NFFC because of the service Greg gives and the backing from Krause.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/stations/f ... -Episode-4 Thanks Scott. I know that it makes sense for everyone to escrow their prize money, but right from the beginning in 2004 we used Wells Fargo to secure all of our money and our prize money is set aside every year. We don't promote that like others because honestly we just believe that is the only way to run a contest. But now with everything going on in the industry, I guess we need to start promoting this fact more.
From my standpoint, you can trust the NFFC because we have two of the biggest companies in the industry backing us: F+W Media and NBC Sports. I just don't see any conceivable way for us to ever not pay our prizes when we have two huge companies with so many other business interests backing us. The NFFC is less than 1% (a lot less in fact) of F+W's entire operation and thus we could never struggle enough to just fold up shop without paying our customers. The backing is just too big.
But I'll tell you, this subject has me so fired up right now that I'm going to take a lead role in getting this out front and center. If fantasy players are now avoiding ANY pay contest because of what has happened with AFFL.com, Fantasy Jungle and the others, then that is terrible. Many good industry companies – mine included – have paid out millions of dollars in prizes every year and there is no way I'm going to let these bad boys tarnish the whole industry. We've paid out over $5 million between baseball and football since 2004, WCOFF has paid off more than that since 2002, CDM has paid out over $20 million since 1992 and the list goes on and on. There are too many good industry companies to let these other jokers ruin it for the rest of us.
I'm going to start a thread on the General NFFC Discussion Forum soon. Join me there for a HEARTY discussion about this topic.
a buddy of mine lost over a million on a propery investment down in florida. The guys are broke, and a suit now would just lead to bankruptcy. Better to wait and see if they can make something of themselves down the road and then go after em.
I made my thoughts known about the Fantasy Jungle at the 48:30 mark of this Friday's show.
I'll always play NFFC because of the service Greg gives and the backing from Krause.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/stations/f ... -Episode-4 Thanks Scott. I know that it makes sense for everyone to escrow their prize money, but right from the beginning in 2004 we used Wells Fargo to secure all of our money and our prize money is set aside every year. We don't promote that like others because honestly we just believe that is the only way to run a contest. But now with everything going on in the industry, I guess we need to start promoting this fact more.
From my standpoint, you can trust the NFFC because we have two of the biggest companies in the industry backing us: F+W Media and NBC Sports. I just don't see any conceivable way for us to ever not pay our prizes when we have two huge companies with so many other business interests backing us. The NFFC is less than 1% (a lot less in fact) of F+W's entire operation and thus we could never struggle enough to just fold up shop without paying our customers. The backing is just too big.
But I'll tell you, this subject has me so fired up right now that I'm going to take a lead role in getting this out front and center. If fantasy players are now avoiding ANY pay contest because of what has happened with AFFL.com, Fantasy Jungle and the others, then that is terrible. Many good industry companies – mine included – have paid out millions of dollars in prizes every year and there is no way I'm going to let these bad boys tarnish the whole industry. We've paid out over $5 million between baseball and football since 2004, WCOFF has paid off more than that since 2002, CDM has paid out over $20 million since 1992 and the list goes on and on. There are too many good industry companies to let these other jokers ruin it for the rest of us.
I'm going to start a thread on the General NFFC Discussion Forum soon. Join me there for a HEARTY discussion about this topic.
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius