AFFL and Question to the NFFC

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:08 am

Greg,

Do you know if this is all that Neil does for a living (is there any other income coming in when it is NOT football season)?

What I mean is, you said before that the NFFC and NFBC is only 1/2 of a % of Krause's total worth or profit (I can't remember exactly what you said, but I thought it was something along those lines). So basically you had the extra $$ to absorb 2004 when you fell short of your target and lost $$ that year. I'm sure the 'big wigs" at Krause weren't doing cartwheels, but you and Tom have built both the NFFC and NFBC into solid, reputable contests, and the future looks bright.

It sounds to me like Neil has no other revenue and relies strictly on whether he meets his target number or not for each league.

Add in the fact that he didn't seem to account for software issues, paying employees, and CONTINUED to run midseason and playoff contests when he knew he was already in a HUGE hole, and this guy might not only be the "dullest knife in the drawer", but there are some criminal issues as well since he continued to run contests when he KNEW he couldn't pay his "original" leagues.

As I said before, he needs to sell whatever he can, pay the people he owes, and start bussing tables at Denny's or something.

Basically if everyone is not paid what they are due and he somehow continues to run the AFFL (if that is even possible), Neil is going to end up in prison.

It is sad, and I feel most for his family, but he needs to do the right thing here, not only for his customers, and family, but the entire fantasy community as well.

[ February 17, 2008, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:38 am

I don't think this is Neil's sole occupation, but I don't know that for sure. And the post on FBG about his assets must be wrong as obviously if you look at his numbers he did bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars in signup revenue. So some of that should be used to pay off some of the winners now.

I don't know what's going to happen, but I know how much he owes and it's not pretty. It's a concerning situation for everyone as it reflects badly on the entire industry. People trusted Neil through the years and they saw that the revenue didn't equal the prize structure, yet they still dove in and felt they'd get paid at the end of the contest. Now we'll all have to wait and see if that happens.

Shrink Attack · Post by **Shrink Attack** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:28 pm

I also notice that he's STILL taking signups for next season on the AFFL web page. That's criminal in itself. Where's that money currently coming in from unsuspecting Fantasy players going to go? Either to:

1) Paying his bankruptcy attorney
2) Paying his criminal attorney
3) Paying his divorce attorney
4) Paying for a plane ticket to South America
5) Paying his mortgage
6) MAYBE paying off a FEW hot-heads this year
7) CERTAINLY NOT paying off any winners for a contest that won't even exist next year.

The hole just keeps getting deeper. Now a poorly managed pyramid scheme on top of everything else. It's nothing short of a scandal for the entire industry and hurts EVERYONE in the industry. Period.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:31 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Diesel:
quote:Originally posted by Coltsfan:
quote:Originally posted by Diesel:
Greg, I would help fix the link that you posted, by putting the "www." in it, but I went on those boards, and the AFFL is getting grilled. It's an ugly ugly messageboard, to be honest, because of the topic. I looked but I couldn't find it. I had never been to their boards but I couldn't believe how active the boards are this time of year. It looks like they may have hundreds of posts per day.

Was the thread removed you were talking about?

Wayne [/QUOTE]Wayne, if you go to the site and click on search, and type in AFFL, you'll find it. Here is the link. I'm not sure if it will work here...

www.forums.footballguys.com/forum/index ... 68&hl=affl [/QUOTE]32 posts have been added in the last day on the FootballGuys.com site about this situation, including a few from Neil himself. Click on the link above by Marc and type in AFFL in the Search button in the upper right-hand corner to find this thread. Again, I point this out because this is where Neil seems to be addressing his situation with the industry. [/QUOTE]Apparently Joe Bryant of Football Guys has either covered up most of this, or moved it (not sure), but there are bunch of people not happy about this.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:38 pm

Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
I also notice that he's STILL taking signups for next season on the AFFL web page. That's criminal in itself. I agree Paul.

Someone on the AFFL board (before it was suspended for a week :rolleyes: ) asked him why the signups for 2008 were still on the front page of their site considering all the recent events, and Neil's response was something along the lines of "They were up before all this came about, and they aren't going to be removed".

It seems as if he is going to try and get even MORE $$$ out of people who are unaware!

Maybe he can get 2008 money to pay off 2007 money, and play the lottery to pay off the 2008 winners! :rolleyes:

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:02 pm

Nice post over on FBG.com by Leroy's Aces:

"What do you guys think of the NFFC boards tearing apart a former competitor like a rabid dog? I do not think it is a very classy move, in spite of what AFFL has done to its customers. I think that a league that is trying to become the best should act in a more mature fashion than that. It reminds me yet again of the issues I have and will always have with the NFFC - the message board and its regulars. Not that I should be very surprised, either. I guess I had better not use a word in the wrong form. They have no "patients" for that over there, being Cambridge-educated scholars and all."

Leroy's Aces · Post by **Leroy's Aces** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:09 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:
Nice post over on FBG.com by Leroy's Aces:

"What do you guys think of the NFFC boards tearing apart a former competitor like a rabid dog? I do not think it is a very classy move, in spite of what AFFL has done to its customers. I think that a league that is trying to become the best should act in a more mature fashion than that. It reminds me yet again of the issues I have and will always have with the NFFC - the message board and its regulars. Not that I should be very surprised, either. I guess I had better not use a word in the wrong form. They have no "patients" for that over there, being Cambridge-educated scholars and all." That is how I feel, damn right. I have been quite complimentary of this league before as well. There are many things I like, and some I do not. No offense to the vast majority of the people here or Greg personally, just one person's opinion.

[ February 17, 2008, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Leroy's Aces ]

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:14 pm

Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
That is how I feel, damn right. No offense to the vast majority of the people here or Greg personally, just one person's opinion. Dave, what has you so upset? Is it the tone of the discussion, or that a competitor/former competitor is allowing discussion on its message boards?

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:21 pm

Leroy's Aces,

This messageboard is nothing, compared to what I sifted through on those AFFL boards. If I'm going spend big money on high stakes fantasy events, I appreciate people spreading the word about someone who's not paying prize money.

I've seen nothing but copy and pastes of serious ridicule from the AFFL boards, which seems to be closed now. The opinions on these boards are only a reflection of what is happening over there. And in Greg's defense, he's done everything he could to defend the AFFL...

Also, you should check in here more often. The "regulars" really aren't as bad as you may have experienced in the past...I've noticed some decent topics here, as long as it's not involving satellite results/cheat sheets/BWaz Vs. SNAKE/stereotyping messageboard regulars/Jessica Alba...