3RR, Socialized Fantasy Medicine?

[LFW]

UFS is right. If HTH league has to be even number unless it's like one of those that does HTH composite of your record vs every other team every week. And would give you something like a 9-3,4-8 or 7-5 record each week.

[King of Queens]

waffles, anyone?

[Nag']

Originally posted by Tamuscarecrow:
Just a reminder here, NAG, some view the glass half full and some view it half empty. I choose half full and it's sad that some people here are shooting 3RR down without giving it a chance. How bad is it to say there is no evidence to support 3RR when you don't have any evidence to shoot down 3RR. You bought into global warming with no evidence to support it so why not 3RR? You obviously misunderstood my post if you think I bought into Global Warming. But more importantly, the intention of that comparison was to show how some people are 100% sure we can and must fix the G/W problem, just like the people here are 100% certain they can fix the "problems" of a fantasy draft by implementing a solution like 3RR.
Maybe it was it bad attempt at an analogy, maybe it just went right over people's heads. Either way, that's how I feel on the matter.

And btw, I'm also with Lou in stating to Greg & Tom that I am in no way trying to stir it up here by once again bringing this issue to debate. I know this was initially discussed during the FF season and the decision was made to go with 3RR. I am NOT trying to challenge the decision in any way, just to question the overwhelming optimism of the success of 3RR.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by 3INTBOY/BFDFANTASY.com:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
lou,
what you and nag are doing is coming at a very odd time. 3RR WILL be used in the NFFC in 2007. it has already been decided. why are you throwing up your "is it needed?" speech NOW??? what do you hope to accomplish? I don't make speeches. And I did question it before, my point in starting it was to have a quality discussion with a group of people that will be DOING it (and I knew it was in when I started the thread)
There isn't anywhere else to discuss it. So here is where the thread must be started.

This is the only crowd that could react with some ideas and basis, at least presumtive basis.

One thing I will say, is after reading Gregs post it made me feel a little bad, like I was stirring the ****. Absolutley not my intent, debate only. And if Greg feels like this thread would hurt his game then I could understand him getting rid of it.

I want to write about it, to give my subscribers a good solid thought process, I like a good debate from many quality fantasy owners. Which is why I started it.

3' [/QUOTE]Not at all Lou. In fact, I want to thank you for starting this thread. I like the discussion of 3RR and this is a GREAT time to do it. There is no way that this should be a 100 percent discussion on one side of the aisle for 3RR. Nor do I think you were on the other side of the aisle. You were soliciting thoughts and wondering if this was a knee jerk reaction. All good points. You presented it well. (By the way, it wasn't a knee jerk, one-year reaction.)

My only point was that as a high-stakes operator who already took a chance with a 14-team format, I do need to make sure that all of my participants feel they have an equal chance of winning. Perception can be reality. And since the auction format won't fly in a national tournament, the current format appears to be more fair than just random draft slots.

But I enjoy the conversation, so keep it going. GG, Team Legacy and others make great counterpoints, but that doesn't mean you guys are on opposite sides. It's just all part of the debate/discussion. It's a great thread. Carry on.

[renman]

Originally posted by Tamuscarecrow:
quote:I am also not seeing who is "shooting down" 3RR...Calling it a knee-jerk reaction isn't shooting it down? Or saying I'm not against it but... and then writing 3 paragraphs on why it wasn't necessary isn't shooting it down? Guess it's one's perception, RENMAN. I for one am for anything that adds strategy to the game and 3RR IMHO will certainly do that. I feel quite sure that was the main reason for Greg to change to 3RR. To insinuate as some have on this thread he made the change just to kiss a bunch of whiny MB butt is extremely ludicrous.

What happens if 2-3 years from now, the draft results show that instead of "leveling" the playing field for all draft slots, 3RR has actually CREATED an unfair advantage to the lower draft slots?NAG, we may be using BBDS by then, you just never know. [/QUOTE]Tamu,

No, saying it seems to be somewhat of a "knee jerk reaction" is NOT SHOOTING 3RR down. Saying "I am all for 3RR but..." is also NOT SHOOTING IT DOWN. I am learning that this message board has quite a clique and if you do not swallow ALL of the kool aid EXACTLY WHEN the clique wants you to you are somehow an outsider.

If drafting from the top position is such a huge advantage why has fantasy football grown so much? You know, with it being so inherently UNFAIR? If you look at statistics over a long period of time you will see the advantages being at the top in a snake draft are MINOR. They may be there, but they are MINOR. If they are not minor then we have several million complete idiots in this country playing a game that is totally not fair before the game even starts.

There have been many seasons where the 13th and 14th picks were way way way better than the 1st and 28th. I am not saying that it hasn't been better to be at the top, it clearly has been of late. But anyone who has played this game for a long period of time knows it is not a "MASSIVE ADVANTAGE."

So it is completely fair and reasonable to wonder if this is a knee jerk reaction due to a few epic seasons by some RB's the last few years. I can be into 3RR and attracted to the new strategies it will present and still have this opinion.

[ February 14, 2007, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: renman ]

[TamuScarecrow]

No, saying it seems to be somewhat of a "knee jerk reaction" is NOT SHOOTING 3RR down. Saying "I all for 3RR but..." is also NOT SHOOTING IT DOWN. I am learning that this message board has quite a clique and if you do not swallow ALL of the kool aid EXACTLY WHEN the clique wants you to you are somehow an outsider.I'm not a member of any clique on here as most will attest to. I agree with some things and I don't agree with others. Has nothing to do with the person. Just wondering, REN, why people are questioning the motive behind the change. If Greg came out and said he did it because it was different and increased the strategy of the draft, would the question be answered? I doubt it as there are enough Chicken Littles on these boards to find another reason why the sky is falling.

Some people are looking at 3RR as a plus because 18 of the 23 leagues in the NFFC last year were represented in the championship round by a team with LT2. These teams were also able to corral 2 more of the top 30 picks in the draft so there is a "perceived" advantage that most on this thread have admitted to. I'm not into the global warming analogy, I'm more into the salary cap vs. MLB analogy. One equalizes the playing field while the other spurs monopoly and tramples competition for all. This is my perception of 3RR and not necessarily anyone elses.

If drafting from the top position is such a huge advantage why has fantasy football grown so much? You know, with it being so inherently UNFAIR? If you look at statistics over a long period of time you will see the advantages being at the top in a snake draft are MINOR. They may be there, but they are MINOR. If they are not minor then we have several million complete idiots in this country playing a game that is totally not fair before the game even starts.You need to go to the thread where I discussed ego. Everyone thinks they can win from any spot and you never know when you are going to get that key injury aka. SA or key pickup aka. Colston. Fact is, I agree with you that the top of the draft isn't a lock to win the championship as the 3 NFFC champs came from spots 1, 6, and 13. But 18 of 23 getting to the big dance with LT2 in 2006 and 11 of the top 20 point producers coming from top 3 picks makes for an impressive argument.

[RiFF]

Originally posted by Tamuscarecrow:
[QUOTE].

Some people are looking at 3RR as a plus because 18 of the 23 leagues in the NFFC last year were represented in the championship round by a team with LT2. I would like to be proven incorrect, but, imo, if LT has similar production in 2007 as compared to 2006; 3RR will have absolutely no impact in altering this success rate.

[GOD Loves You]

Not that anybody gives a $hit, but since everybody seems to jump on the "bash renman wagon" I just wanted to point out something. Renman was saying, in many years folks would rather have the last pick in the first round and the first pick in the 2nd, opposed to picking first in the first round and then LAST in the 2nd. Unless I can't read, he DIDN'T say, "people would rather pick at the end of the round first round instead of the beginning".

I know last year I preferred drafting from the end of the draft instead of the beginning, unless of course I received a top 2 pick. The same hold true for me in baseball. So yes, some folks do prefer the ends of the drafts.

[GOD Loves You]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Team Legacy:
quote:Originally posted by renman:


Some here either have short memories, selective memory, or have very brief fantasy football careers... So your post is stating those who believe in 3RR are somehow "rookies" ?

How is this more tasteful "JAB" any different in the end from one of GG's?

BTW: Not picking a fight, just pointing out the irony. [/QUOTE]scott - in case you didn't know yet...no one really reads what renman writes. but we gotta keep him around. he's like the rock you keep kicking while you walk down the street [/QUOTE]If no one reads what he writes, then why do so many people respond in such a harsh, condescending manner? BTW, I assumed Gordon Gekko always had a driver and never had to walk down the street, kicking a rock.

[renman]

Tamu,

I am not sure anyone is even questioning the motives behind the change as you say. Maybe someone did, but not that I noticed. What I did notice is 3INTBOY simply question if this was too aggressive a move or change based on the history of fantasy football and maybe the steady growth of the NFFC. Fair question to ask.

You are right that LT teams were dominant. However, LT was NOT the consensus number one pick and he had the greatest season in the history of fantasy football BY A MILE. You combine with that the stunning number of under producing RB's that hurt other teams and you end up with a massive advantage for LT owners. This NEVER HAPPENS and likely wont happen again in 20 years. Now I am all for 3RR because I think it adds some unpredictable texture to the flow of picks off the board (it also should eliminate some of the crybaby whining about draft positions) but simply asking if this was an aggressive move/change (even if I think it is for the better) based on a couple standout RB seasons is a fair point to make.

Riff,

You are 100% right.. that is the point few get here. If someone has an out of this world season, his team will do well assuming he did not ruin his team with the remainder of his draft. 3RR would have done little to nothing to change what happened last season.

god loves you,

be careful thinking for yourself here my friend... not joining the angry mob of renman obsessed posters can get you thrown out of the message board fraternity...lol You clearly can read... The vast majority of things I type here that result in someone going off the deep end are rather benign things or even points someone else already made. You are also right in that everyone reads my posts and it is funny to see those flipping out over me acting as if my words have no impact here when in reality they seem to have TOO MUCH impact.

team legacy,

me saying "anyone who thinks there is a MASSIVE ADVANTAGE to drafting from the top of the board either knows nothing about fantasy football or has been playing for a whole 3 years..." is a 100% reasonable point to make. Yes, over the last 3 years there has been an advantage at or near the top (unless you took SA this year or Priest in 2004). However there were many years in the previous 20 where drafting from the top was NOT an advantage at all. Anyone who has played for longer then 3 years knows it. Nothing about my point/statement was demeaning or inflammatory at all. Yet for some reason the message board mob has a problem with it...