What Is Going To Happen To High-Stakes Fantasy Football?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:45 am

I just talked to an old NFFC player who went to the WCOFF after we left Florida because he wanted to draft in Orlando rather than Las Vegas. He absolutely hated the event in 2009 but played again last year and won his league title. I just called him to talk about the sports memorabilia industry (he's prominent in it) and to talk about the NFFC and he HAD NO IDEA what was going on. He rolled over three teams and was planning to go to the Orlando site on Sept. 10th with his brother and best friend. They were all taking a team. I had to tell him what the situation is in our industry and he IS JUST FLOORED!! He can't believe it. He said this may sour him on this space. He didn't want to talk anymore before he called his brother and friend with the news. He's the type of guy who might have just showed up at the draft and sat down with whatever spot you gave him. Nobody has yet to contact him about this. Amazing.

particra · Post by **particra** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:48 am

The status of his rollover teams is pretty clear, isn't it?

If I was one of the biggest WCOFF "winners" (creditors), I would joint together with some other big winners, file suit, split the legal fees, and move for a TRO to freeze the assets of WCOFF

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:02 am

Originally posted by Hells Satans:
The status of his rollover teams is pretty clear, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's very clear. I told him that and he knew it. It's still not an easy thing to come to terms with, though, and I can appreciate that.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:47 pm

This morning I'd like to commend guys like Shawn and Glenneration X for being honest and informative to the WCOFF folks who are still waiting for some word on the 2011 events. Since Dustin has not responded in the last 3+ days, they are the only ones with the respect to respond to questions or inquiries. And they've even floated ideas on how the players could save the contest in the future and do their part to reduce the debt. It's admirable, but just not feasible now or probably anytime soon with the amount of prizes owed.

This whole thing is so unfortunate it's enough to make grown men cry. But again, the situation is being compounded by someone over there not stepping forward TODAY and stating the obvious. The RT Sports letter has stated the obvious, yet for whatever reason everyone dances around the fact that live drafts can't and won't happen. Just say and let people move on without feeling even more guilty for abandoning their favorite contest and letting go of a decade of great, great memories. Someone ruined all of that for them and now they just can't just honestly state the obvious.

Man, try talking to any of these customers on the phone right now. Tom and I did that most of yesterday. The pain grabs you right through the phone. The anger towards those involved and our entire industry can be felt and won't disappear anytime soon. I still don't believe all of these players will quit this fun hobby for good, but if we think they are trusting us with their hard-earned money anytime soon we've got another thing coming. The HSFF space has been damaged big time. Not irreparably, but big time. And if there was ever a time for full honesty -- well, actually, that would have been months ago -- it's now. Just be honest with a statement about the upcoming season and let folks move on. They probably already have, but still, after Monday's farcical draft pick announcements it's time to tell those with the No. 1 pick that they can't have Arian Foster.

Someone should FINALLY do the right thing, even if it's way past due.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:59 pm

Shawn, your plan for the players to solve this through equity over time is passionate indeed and Glenn's points are well thought out. However, if no baseball debt had incurred from 2011 it would be a different story. Football on its own can and had generated profits as you know. But baseball's debt among only a few owners would make any plan like that very, very tough. There are only a few owners going to be creditors there with large totals and unlikely any future revenue or profits from that sport.

The expenses to run these contests is also much higher than you posted and capital is needed to guarantee all prizes going forward. Nobody can trust contests that don't have big financial backers anymore or sound plans with proven records. The trust factor has been stolen from what has happened here recently.

Thanks for almost stating the obvious when asked about the live drafts in September. Now get someone else to officially state that it's time to move on. That would be a step in the road to recovery for everyone.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:08 pm

To Donny T, who played in the NFFC and who won some money here last year: I think your latest analysis on those boards is not accurate and in fact could be even worse than that. I know you're frustrated by not receiving your prize money from that contest and it's preventing you from playing in any contest this year, but your analysis doesn't match the facts.

KOKID · Post by **KOKID** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:25 pm

Well things are getting really chippy at the WCoFF boards. Folks were openly advocating for players to finally accept facts and if they can play any where in the hsff world to play with the NFFC and/or FFPC (these were folks who were firmly entrenched in the WCoFF lines)...and the posts were allowed to stand...heck, even Shawn Childs mentioned he was playing in the NFFC this year and offered up an idea for how to save the WCoFF.

What I find most interesting/sad is that when one poster asked specifics about the FFPC that his post was deleted and so were some of the replies to his post (one made by me and I mentioned in my post that I have heard good things about the NFFC too but had actual experience with the FFPC)...I later re-posted his question (it had been quoted by another poster) and told the mystery censor that if he was gonna delete a post he better delete it everywhere including when it was replied to and quoted within an answer (by another poster besides me)...otherwise it makes the censor look not only vindictive but also stupid...that was apparently enough to get me banned from their boards for a year and get the mention of FFPC reduced to #### on the WCoFF boards...luckily the NFFC is not being similarily censored yet.

To me that is more than odd. I wish the NFFC and FFPC the best and both of you will be growing this year but the obvious censorship is wrong but heck when compared to not paying 2010 winners I guess a little selective censorship of one competing contest over another is not too bad?

KO'd

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:29 pm

That's very odd. Wish I could say I was surprised but nothing surprises me at this point. I think the best thing that can happen now is for the remaining players to be given as much information about us and FFPC as possible. We obviously believe in our game but we understand there's a lot of WCOFF players who have either signed up for both games or plan to because they want to check both out for a year.

But for those unfamiliar with one or both of the contests hopefully the WCOFF community will band together to provide as much information about the events as possible. As Greg and I have said repeatedly, the worst thing that could happen is for great players to leave the high-stakes industry because one contest abused and betrayed their trust.

KOKID · Post by **KOKID** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:40 pm

I agree Tom. I have read your posts and Gregs throughout this entire 46 page thread and I know you fellas are solid guys. I look forward to playing in your contest - maybe in 2012 and this year I am likely gonna try to come observe one of your drafts so I can get somewhat familiar with KDS and 3RR.

I totally agree that the undecided need to know about both the NFFC and FFPC if they wish to play in 2011 but they are only getting half the picture which I suppose is good for you folks.

I know that is not how you'd like to gain new customers. I know I have personally mentioned the NFFC as a good hsff option now that WCoFF is done to two folks who have asked me....and that was without me even ever having played in your contest...I also of course let them know about the FFPC since I had actual game playing experience with them. Not sure where both of those folks landed...I think 1 may be heading to the FFPC and second person who PM'd me - I don't know where he landed?

I would hope whoever the WCoFF censor is (and I think I know who he is...and it isn't Dustin could have been Jill) matures a bit and allows the FFPC to be mentioned as well as your fine contest and I wouldn't mind being re-instated before August of 2012 too

KO'd

[ August 20, 2011, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: KOKID ]