FFOC Investigation

ultimatefs
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FFOC Investigation

Post by ultimatefs » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:27 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
If a contest comes somewhat close to meeting their goals (as the NFFC did in Year One), it can be deemed an acceptable loss. What you're looking at here is entirely different -- a potentially devastating loss that will almost certainly not be made up in a year or two. How much do you think Papa John's is worth? How could it possibly be devastating? [/QUOTE]$817 million, as of 40 minutes before the close today. Cash flow from operations $20.3 million in the 1st quarter.
[/QUOTE]Thanks,

they waste more than a million per year on my daily papajohns e-mail specials. ;)
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.

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kjduke
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FFOC Investigation

Post by kjduke » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:31 am

Yes, John. If they believe its viable - which looks reasonable to me - they could withstand a much bigger loss.

The FFOC isn't some new, small-time contest started by message board antagonists with misplaced egos.

[ August 06, 2008, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Nag'
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FFOC Investigation

Post by Nag' » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:38 am

Ok, its settled then. FFOC has no problem losing $1-2 million this year so there should be no scrutiny whatsoever and anyone who does raise questions is taking cheapshots, doesn't know how businesses operate and should go to other boards to debate this issue.

Thanks. It's been real. Or surreal I should say... :rolleyes:

[ August 06, 2008, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Nag' ]
For Players. By Players.

Captain Hook
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FFOC Investigation

Post by Captain Hook » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:40 am

Guys could we PLEASE refrain from the personal attacks in the future. Their is probably interest in this contest - it doesn't need to get sidetracked.

Len Gill is a VERY astute businessman with VERY deep pockets. As I said before he can easily stand for them to take a loss this year to be the first FF contest to award a $ Million check. Their entries for next year will easily cover that.

If you are skeptical that FFOC will go on - wait until their drop dead date and you will find out. Let's keep the conversation about the contest for those that want it.

Nag'
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FFOC Investigation

Post by Nag' » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:42 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
The FFOC isn't some new, small-time contest started by message board antagonists with misplaced egos. Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Cheap shots are not my style...Class & honesty are two words that don't come to mind.
For Players. By Players.

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kjduke
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FFOC Investigation

Post by kjduke » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:47 am

Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
The FFOC isn't some new, small-time contest started by message board antagonists with misplaced egos. Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Cheap shots are not my style...Class & honesty are two words that don't come to mind.
[/QUOTE]Probably because they are foreign words to you.

And unlike you, I don't call people out when I know they are not around to respond. If you're concerned about the contest why don't you give Stan a call instead of posting innuendos about things you are clearly wrong about? The answer is you're not concerned about that contest, you're only concerned about it taking potential customers from you, so any damage you can inflict helps you out. And you think the people here are dumb enough to take you at face value.

[ August 06, 2008, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

ultimatefs
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FFOC Investigation

Post by ultimatefs » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:53 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Yes, John. If they believe its viable - which looks reasonable to me - they could withstand a much bigger loss.

The FFOC isn't some new, small-time contest started by message board antagonists with misplaced egos. This is interesting for sure. The deep pockets are there, but this also looks like the "Fanatics Only" contest that was marketed (Bob Ueker was spokesperson) just as much, and failed big time.

We'll know soon enough.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.

Leroy's Aces
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FFOC Investigation

Post by Leroy's Aces » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:04 am

I have just quickly breezed through some of the comments here. My comments were not meant to "bash" the FFOC in order to help our contest. I do not think the two are all that interrelated. The FFPC is doing just fine and is not really like the FFOC. What I was trying to do is make a comment that agreed with another fantasy player as a fantasy player. The AFFL thing has been a disaster and was one of the primary reason why we formed ForPlayers-ByPlayers and did the Escrow account.

I 100% support the contests I believe in. I am buying 3 NFFC/NBC Main Events teams by the way totaling about $4,000 or so, so I think that I can feel free to post on the NFFC board about what I think of the FFOC when a fellow player comments on it in a worrisome fashion. This is not my message board, so when I post on the NFFC board, it is as a high stakes player. Thanks for making me feel so welcome.

a. I already commented that the hockey comment was inaccurate on page one since the guy owned the company. My bad.

b. They have had drafts go off with less than 10 people actually drafting. I cannot say for sure if they filled or people did not show up.

c. They have drafted less than 80 leagues or 800 teams as pointed out by KoQ. There is less than 1 month until the season starts. Break even is probably 15-20,000 teams. Even a company that can take a loss could see that selling 5,000 teams this year only could mean 10,000 next year - another sizable loss. Some ideas are just bad ideas. Some are not fiscally feasible to pull off - the market may not be big enough. Out of the millions of players that play fantasy football, only 17% play for money. And probably 80% of those play in home leagues.

d. They have charged no one's credit card. Some find that to be good, but I find it to be worrisome that the FFOC will not go off. That is a lot of expensive credits and refunds to offer if the event cancels, so why not just "not charge anyone" for now.

e. The "grapevine" I speak of is regarding advertising that was not subsequently placed when the person/site/operator in question requested payment in advance. They "reconsidered".

I've got $100 that they: a. either do not go off at all or b. pay less than $1,000,000 to the winner. If they do go off and pay $1 million, you win $100 and I will say I was wrong. First to agree gets the bet.

As for my record, I have a BS of Business from the University of Wisconsin, with an honors degree completed in 3.5 years in 1993, with an emphasis in Marketing/Finance and Entrepreneurship. 2 months out of college I started my first business, which is still in existence in the same location in the same mall. I have seen well over 100% turnover in mall-based retailers since I opened my primary location. Since then, I have opened multiple locations and a thriving eCommerce web site. In July of 2005, I bought a franchise location called LoveSac. Six months later my corporate franchiser went bankrupt. 33 out of 36 franchisees followed suit and either abandoned their operation or just went belly up. I could easily have gone that route, screwing over my bank, the mall, employees and anyone I did business with. Instead, I stayed open and expanded, taking over 2 corporate stores and opened 2 more of my own, all while Corporate was in bankruptcy. They recently re-emerged from bankruptcy and I sold all of my store back to the new corporate entity two months ago at a profit.

My personal and business credit is excellent and I have never defaulted on a payment in 15 years as a business owner. That is my business history, and that is why the FFPC started small and will succeed. We are not biting off more than we can chew, and we are learning this business from the ground up. I feel that it would not be fair to my family or to fantasy players to take an unreasonable risk by trying to be too big too soon. Alex and I could easily have gone to our bankers and taken that huge risk, but there was no need for that. As Greg has shown over the years, a personal touch and good customer service goes a long way.

Sorry for the novel. Flame away. ;)

[ August 06, 2008, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Leroy's Aces ]
'08 NFFC Primetime Champ

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kjduke
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FFOC Investigation

Post by kjduke » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:14 am

Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:

Out of the millions of players that play fantasy football, only 17% play for money. And probably 80% of those play in home leagues.

Does anyone know how many players-for-money sportsline or CDM have?

King of Queens
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FFOC Investigation

Post by King of Queens » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:16 am

Just realized my math error. 67 leagues = 670 teams, not 804 (not used to this 10-team format).

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