AFFL and Question to the NFFC

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:33 pm

Originally posted by SNAKE:
quote:Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BillyWaz:
[qb] Dave,

Look, I feel for all of the players in this and am not defending this Neil guy AT ALL. At some point though, it gets ridiculous. Hey, here at the NFFC , we pay out on time AND we know how to use words correctly.

Look, who cares, it is fine, the NFFC rules, Greg is the man (who pays on time), and we can all go back to ripping on the AFFL again.

God, what an idiot that guy is! ...you missed one here Leroy and it goes something like this; "look, the AFFL owes me money and blah blah blah..."...just how many times on how many different threads has this sentence been written here?...SNAKE [/QUOTE]Simply stating that I have more at stake here since I am owed $$ and experienced playing in the AFFL Snake (many chiming in here did not participate in the AFFL).

So the root of your post AGAIN (2 in 3 days), is your jealousy over me being successful (i.e me winning $$$ or someone paying me a compliment)....

UNBELIEVABLE!

I asked you two or three times on the 12 team leagues thread to PLEASE stop stalking me!!! I DO NOT want to get into things with you this year.

And yes Snake, we all realize I didn't finish in 1st this past year in an NFFC league. :rolleyes:

[ February 18, 2008, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:46 am

Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
That is how I feel, damn right. No offense to the vast majority of the people here or Greg personally, just one person's opinion. Dave, what has you so upset? Is it the tone of the discussion, or that a competitor/former competitor is allowing discussion on its message boards? [/QUOTE]You asked, so I will give an honest answer. It bothers me that Greg, the owner of NFFC and of this site helps the NFFC message board pile on to the woes of the AFFL, (by noting a word usage error) and then, at the same time, touts the benefits of his league and fast payouts, his upcoming contests, and the growth of the NFFC. (More power to Greg and the NFFC and I appreciate what he is doing for the NFFC.) It is just not something I would do as a business owner, especially when my former competitor is pretty much toast. It is punching someone when they are down. And I really have little sympathy for the AFFL. It just doesn't feel right to me. There you have it. I am sure some people get what I am saying. Sorry Greg, no offense. [/QUOTE]Dave has a right to his opinion, but at no point am I trying to pile on or hope for ANYTHING other than a resolution with Neil and his winning customers. I have something to lose here too if Neil doesn't pay his customers. This could very easily bring a bad light to the high-stakes fantasy sports market and even bring Congress into it at some point. If you think I am happy for what is going on at AFFL.com, you are VERY mistaken.

I responded to the original post because I talked to Neil even before that first post was written here. One of our NFFC customers called me to tell me he was owed a lot of money by AFFL and if I knew Neil. I do know Neil and called him to get the facts because I knew he was speaking at the FSTA Conference the next week. He was as open and as honest as could be and I asked if there was any way I could help rectify the situation. He then posted answers to questions on the FBG boards and that's why I listed that thread, so everyone could read what he said about the situation.

I will continue to update this situation right here on the General Discussion of our boards because honestly I don't think there's a bigger subject in the fantasy football industry right now than this. I disagree with Joe B. that this isn't important because it's VERY IMPORTANT. This affects a lot of people in a lot of ways, including us.

There is no piling on, just trying to figure out the facts. And I will continue to update the facts as we learn them because they affect the NFFC and the NFFC participants, some of whom are owed money by AFFL.com. It looks like there is over $450,000 in winnings there and it would be a shame to see that amount taken out of the industry.

And in the future, I have a feeling that the WCOFF and NFFC will offer online products where people can go, compete fairly and have confidence that their prize winnings are GUARANTEED. It makes sense for everyone involved.

Thanks for your opinion Dave, but this time we'll have to disagree.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:47 am

SNAKE, if you can't make posts to the subject, please don't post anymore. Thanks.

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:29 am

Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
That is how I feel, damn right. No offense to the vast majority of the people here or Greg personally, just one person's opinion. Dave, what has you so upset? Is it the tone of the discussion, or that a competitor/former competitor is allowing discussion on its message boards? [/QUOTE]You asked, so I will give an honest answer. It bothers me that Greg, the owner of NFFC and of this site helps the NFFC message board pile on to the woes of the AFFL, and then, at the same time, touts the benefits of his league and fast payouts, his upcoming contests, and the growth of the NFFC. (More power to Greg and the NFFC and I appreciate what he is doing for the NFFC.) It is just not something I would do as a business owner, especially when my former competitor is pretty much toast. It is punching someone when they are down. And I really have little sympathy for the AFFL. It just doesn't feel right to me. There you have it. I am sure some people get what I am saying. Sorry Greg, no offense. [/QUOTE]First off, Dave, thanks for the honest response. I guess if you were looking at the situation in a vacuum, your reasoning would make a lot of sense. However, the events surrounding the AFFL could significantly impact the ENTIRE high-stakes fantasy football market. I think Greg should answer this himself, but to me, his comments reflect first and foremost an attempt to protect his own business interests. He was actually defending Neil a week ago, going so far as to remove a thread that may or may not have been factual. With all of the posts on the AFFL and FBG boards, more details have come to light that have left everyone shaking their heads in both dismay and disgust. Like the rest of us, Greg is probably shocked at the multitude of poor decisions made by a fellow game operator. [/QUOTE]Good points and I should not disparage the NFFC on FBG too much due to a minor issue. I deleted my original post on FBG.com. [/QUOTE]Funny, because if Neil doesn't delete all the posts. Its almost a non story hear.

I hope Billy and Lou and everyone gets there money. Would like to see AFFL go on and do great things as well.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:37 am

under the RULES/REGULATIONS section on the AFFL site. is the bold part a potential "out"

x. Notwithstanding anything herein to the contrary, under no circumstances shall IFS be liable for any special, consequential, or incidental damages in connection with its obligations under this agreement, and in any event, the liability of IFS for any act of negligence or breach of this agreement shall not exceed the amount paid by the principal registrant to IFS in connection with this agreement during the twelve (12) month period immediately preceding the date of any claim by the principal registrant against IFS.

in addition, there should be NO reason why the AFFL message boards are disabled during this critical time. NONE. leaving all those money winning owners twisting in the wind is UNACCEPTABLE.

anyone else wondering if the posts regarding this situation (made on the affl MB) will ever be seen again? would you be surprised if they "disappeared" due to a "computer glitch".

this whole situation is shady and getting shadier each passing day.

Sound Advice · Post by **Sound Advice** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:40 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
One of our NFFC customers called me to tell me he was owed a lot of money by AFFL and if I knew Neil."And (asked) if I knew Neil."

There you go. Now we are all even. Anyone can make a mistake.

I think the 'patients' card was played simply because of its irony. Not to pile on the AFFL.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:43 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
anyone else wondering if the posts regarding this situation (made on the affl MB) will ever be seen again? would you be surprised if they "disappeared" due to a "computer glitch".They're already gone -- yesterday I found a backdoor to their message boards, and all the posts from 2/8/08 (when they officially announced the "delay") to present were deleted. Also removed were any posts prior to that announcement concerning payment problems.

This certainly doesn't pass the smell test.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:51 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
anyone else wondering if the posts regarding this situation (made on the affl MB) will ever be seen again? would you be surprised if they "disappeared" due to a "computer glitch".They're already gone -- yesterday I found a backdoor to their message boards, and all the posts from 2/8/08 (when they officially announced the "delay") to present were deleted. Also removed were any posts prior to that announcement concerning payment problems.

This certainly doesn't pass the smell test. [/QUOTE]having a number of attorneys (including Federal) in my family and my fascination with "Law and Order" has me thinking that posts made by Neil MAY be able to be used against him if this ever sees a courtroom. it's like talking to the cops without asking for your lawyer.

that MAY be the real reason for the board being disabled.

[ February 18, 2008, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:59 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
that MAY be the real reason for the board being disabled. Could be, and I KNOW it has to do with wanting to "dupe" his potential investors into thinking the AFFL is this "happy little place"!

Hence why Neil said "the boards will be shut down for a week so that we don't "spook" investors".

Deceitfulness at it's finest!