Best h2h format for 2005 ?

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:50 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
I see minor tweak after minor tweak suggested while no one addresses an issue that could completely neutralize the most unfair and random component of the game, scheduling.

The only alternative is to make this a points game (which has its own flaws even in the skill sense), and which Greg has already said will not happen.

Is it that all of you "skill" guys secretly want the luck factor to stay in? i would love to see a move away from H2H. i just don't see that happening. if it doesn't happen, then more rewards to the high pts scorers will lessen the impact of "luck" (scheduling and dead teams). hence,
1. league playoffs are for 3 weeks, concurrent with main playoffs
2. 8-10% of high pts scorers automatically make the main playoffs
3. maybe you switch around the league prizes to better reward the high pts scorer

if H2H is here to stay, it's really a simple solution

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:58 am

Originally posted by Route C:
The simplest solution is a cash prize after 13 weeks. I'd like to hear your opinion on this.

Do you think the leader should be rewarded after 13 weeks? Thoughts?possibly. they already are receiving league money ($5,000 or $1,500) and a headstart in the main playoffs (avg pt total for 13 weeks). maybe a small cash prize ($1,000)? but, you need to take that prize from another prize. it's a zero sum game. if somebody wins, somebody loses

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:00 am

Originally posted by JerseyPaul:

If 1 team gets both, they get the 1st place prize, whatever it is...$5000 this year, maybe more next year. 2nd and 3rd goes to next best points.

If those honors are split, a playoff for 1st, loser gets 2nd. Playoff is 3 weeks, the best team gets the big prize.
could be a winner. i didn't understand what you were trying to say before. my apologies.

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:42 am

Originally posted by JerseyPaul:
quote:Originally posted by JerseyPaul:
It's sooooooo simple, why all the half page posts?

Most points, best record...tastes great, less filling.

If 1 team gets both, they get the 1st place prize, whatever it is...$5000 this year, maybe more next year. 2nd and 3rd goes to next best points.

If those honors are split, a playoff for 1st, loser gets 2nd. Playoff is 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, I don't care, the best team gets the big prize.

Why make this so hard? [/QUOTE]Because both h2h and high pts scored have weaknesses. H2h depends on random scheduling, high pts does not reward consistency of fielding a good team each week.

Both methods improve the odds of getting the best teams to the playoffs; but a h2h concept that removes unfair scheduling fixes the problem rather than putting a band-aid on it.

And it isn't hard at all, its actually easier.

And as for the tastes great, less filling ... don't buy it, its just marketing. I prefer best of breed. If I want less filling I'll drink water. If I want tastes great I'll drink a Newcastle, and I don't want to mix them to get both.

[ December 01, 2004, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:10 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
The point of this thread (see below) has unfortunately not been addressed.

1) Maintain the W/L on a weekly basis.
2) Eliminate the extreme luck factor of scheduling.
3) Keep it marketable (relatively simple).

I see minor tweak after minor tweak suggested while no one addresses an issue that could completely neutralize the most unfair and random component of the game, scheduling.

The only alternative is to make this a points game (which has its own flaws even in the skill sense), and which Greg has already said will not happen.

I think the only post adressing the issue was UFS, but he dismissed it as a baseballl idea not a football idea ... John, what's with the not invented here attitude?

Is it that all of you "skill" guys secretly want the luck factor to stay in? I agree with KJ Duke: This thread has taken so many turns that I'm now lost. I think the goal is to take out the luck factor in random fantasy scheduling and to make sure the VERY BEST team in each league is awarded $5,000. That's what we should be concentrating on, even though I've already said that eight of the 16 league leaders right now have the best h2h record and high points, and four other league leaders have the second most points.

Honestly, I think I've made it clear that h2h is here to stay in the NFFC and that the play-all suggestion has some merits and some faults. To grow the NFFC in 2005, I think the random scheduling h2h is our best option. Maybe another format will make more sense after that.

Straight H2H has its warts as well, but teams that consistently score enough to beat their opponents rather than a team that scores 218, 105, 105 and 195 deserves to be rewarded. That's why I'm not sold on the total points deserving more than the h2h champion as some have suggested.

That being said, I want to make the payout fairer in 2005 while maintaining 5K for first place. That's why all of your comments have helped sway me in a different direction, which is good. I want someone in each league to win 4 times their entry fee, while still having a fair shot at the grand prize. It's a great payout, if you can beat 13 other teams.

As for Billy Waz's payout plan for 2005, it's great if he can guarantee me 602 teams. But I'm not going to shoot for that next year. I'm going to grow slowly and smartly and put more of my payout emphasis on league prizes rather than the overall top finishers.

There are some great comments on this thread and honestly I think we've all moved more central than before. After this week's games, we'll analyze the final results and determine where my payout structure failed and adjust accordingly. I expect a new thread next week with all kinds of input for 2005 and by Jan. 3rd everything will be finalized and we'll start taking signups for 2005. Help me fill it up and I promise to keep adding to the payouts if we go beyond that.

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:10 am

Originally posted by Vega$ Gambler$:
To play devils advocate, there are leagues that are more competitive than others. Comparing teams across the board without comparing leagues I think is a little unfair. Should there be a "league index" or some other "normalizing" factor to fairly compare acoss leagues be implemented?

I think taking the weekly average is good, I probably would not be opposed to doubling it, tripling it is way too much. There is already the "weak league" advantage built in. Plus, just like in the real world, in the playoffs, teams are on a level playing field with the exception of football, there are first round byes. Then again, we do not play each other in the playoffs. I would have to think that this would be on GG's inefeecient list. LOL.

For example, I have Manning and Brees. Does that make my league worse?

ultimatefs · Post by **ultimatefs** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:15 am

Originally posted by Route C:
One more quick thought. Since we have a 3 week playoff round, why not multiply the avg. by 3.

Before you shoot down the idea consider the numbers.
Team New 1st overall - weekly avg. 155
Sly guys 32nd overall - weekly avg. 132

I understand that we don't take the top 32 but for the sake of the example that equates to 69 pts. from 1st to 32nd.

16th overall - weekly avg. 138 = 51 pts.
I think from 1st to last there should be more than a 23 pt. handicap - or, just give the guy some money.

I agree. It should be more. The impact is so minimal, I never understood why WCOFF introduced it.

To throw something out there, I would DOUBLE the average to start. TEAM NEW would start with 310. That would at least make a difference.

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:30 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Is it that all of you "skill" guys secretly want the luck factor to stay in? Your silence is deafening. I am officially tossing in the towel on my modified h2h idea. Looks like even the leading-edge "skill" guys don't want to play something new.

Greg, thanks for listening to the suggestion but clearly what I suggested isn't marketable for now given the complete lack of interest here.

Too bad, I really think its the best balance of fairness, familiarity and simplicity. But no one is willing to even consider it must less accept it, so standing in your shoes I'd come to the same conclusion: random scheduling h2h remains the best option for now. Guess I'll just hope to get lucky next year.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:35 pm

Anyone up for schedule slot bidding to go with draft slot bidding?

lol

Dave

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:12 pm

Want to go off the board for 200?...How about a league average eack week? Total up all the points for all teams, divide by 14. Who ever beats it wins! If you don't, you lose. The might not be 7 winners and losers each week, but it should average out.