Tim Tebow - Let's Talk

Old School · Post by **Old School** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:11 am

Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
quote:Originally posted by Old School:
quote:Originally posted by Hells Satans:
Disappointed in the lack of discussion here today. I actually watched the game unlike most of the haters....

Tebow had no protection.
They traded his top receiver.
For basically nothing.
Put him on a real team that can protect him and wants him to succeed and he’ll be great.
Fox is a neanderthal
They set him up to fail [/QUOTE]Wow. I watched the entire game on DirecTV, by the way.

The only logical explanation for what you're saying is that we're in the Star Trek episode where we coexist in parallel universes in which whatever you see and experience is the exact opposite of what I see and experience.

The man simply does not have the skills to play QB in the NFL. How anyone can watch him play and not see that leaves me at a further loss for words. [/QUOTE]Still lost for words?

bobsgym · Post by **bobsgym** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:16 am

This defensive argument is a perfect example of what I'm saying.

It is undeniable that Fox will not call many pass plays unless they have to (I understand why). If Denver's D plays well the offense will rarely throw. Yes, it means more opportunities for the offense, but if Fox and the OC opt to run run run it doesn't really matter. You know this - you understand this - it's not rocket science.

When the DENVER defense plays well the offense is ultra-conservative. Why deny this?????

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:46 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by Sandman62:
Hmm... So then, by that rationale Chad Henne was QB3 this year, due to averaging 27 PPG in his 3 full games? If you consider three games to be a worthy sample size for evaluation purposes knock yourself out. [/QUOTE]I obviously don't. Nor do I consider 10 games worthy when most other QBs played nearly DOUBLE that!

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:49 am

That's fine Mike. I don't think we need to keep going around in circles and belabor this point. Since most fantasy rankings that use average points per game use the season's production as a whole without cherry picking specific weeks I think we can use that for the purpose of this discussion without any harm or misinformation being presented. We all know what we're talking about here or should by now.

Again I'll ask that if anyone has Tebow's new average including his Week 17 performance we can then re-rank him compared to other QBs in the NFFC this season.

[ January 12, 2012, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:51 am

Originally posted by BobSquad:
Again, many on the pro-Tebow side have an emotional attachment ... AND ... Many on the anti-Tebow side are having an emotional reaction - not to Tebow himself, but in response to the emotions of his fans. Completely agree.

bobsgym · Post by **bobsgym** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:13 am

Mike,

I have agreed with many of your points. I'm not talking super bowls. I think it's nearly 50-50 that he starts 20 more games in his entire career.

I just think that you are tailoring (not twisting) your stats to match a predetermined opinion. I agreed that his late game stats will fall. You cannot get yourself to admit that Q's 1-3 could improve. They may not but it is undeniable that there is a decent chance that it will improve.

It's your inability to state the obvious that put you in the same camp with the Tebowites. The difference is that they know their judgment is clouded.

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:31 am

Yes, because I don't think that Fox letting him throw more will necessarily increase his completion %. Nor do I think it's at all a slam dunk that Elway working with him will. Given that, I think it more likely that we see more games next year with FOUR quarters that look like his usual first 3 quarters this year.

IMO.

Ry's Guys · Post by **Ry's Guys** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:39 am

Ok so he played in 11 full games this regular season and here is what we have...

Here are his per game averages through these games;

150 passing yards 56 rushing yards
1.45 Touchdown's 1.09 Turnovers

So forgetting about the "eye test", the 46.5 completion % or the unbelievable comebacks or "Tebow time" if you will. This is what we have for NFFC purposes.

150 passing yards = 7.5 points
56 rushing yards= 5.6 points
1.45 TD's= 8.7 points
1.09 Turnovers= -1.09 points

This totals 20.71 points. Is this what you want/expect from your 7th-9th round QB?

Honestly I don't care about his "high floor".
In the NFFC total points are still king.
But let's talk about his "high floor".
Shouldn't injury or being benched count against any such floor? I know I take into account a players injury history before deciding where I would select him.
Ask Michael Vick owners about the injury risk to a running quarterback these days!

My question is what round are you happy with that production out of your QB? As a guy who drafts QB's early I don't know, but I'd like to hear someones opinion on it....

bobsgym · Post by **bobsgym** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:40 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:
Yes, because I don't think that Fox letting him throw more will necessarily increase his completion %. Nor do I think it's at all a slam dunk that Elway working with him will. Given that, I think it more likely that we see more games next year with FOUR quarters that look like his usual first 3 quarters this year.

IMO. Now that is a reasonably written opinion. So you're saying there's a chance.

Thank you.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:46 am

Pat, as someone who would prefer a stud QB Tebow won't be on my target list for next season either. But as I've said before there are only X amount of stud QBs and that means some/many teams in each league will have to rely on someone else. When it comes to those other options Tebow's upside is as high as anyone you're going to choose. Tebow comes with risk but so do a lot of other QBs in that range, including several he outperformed this season.