Tim Tebow - Let's Talk

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:34 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by Coltsfan:

Stafford was a lock for over 30 TD's this past year. PLUS he had a high upside backup. How many teams had a nice backup QB for fantasy? It was a dream situation. You call him a QB2 but he was only a QB2 in your eyes. Not the guys who typically draft in the NFFC.Stafford was QB11 in both the Classic and Primetime this season. You're right, he wasn't a QB2. He was more of a lower-end QB1 with upside.

Lower-end QB1 with upside. QB11 ranking. Why does that all sound so familiar? Hmmm ... [/QUOTE]Yeah, but Stafford had already SHOWN elite NFL QB skills and was coming off a big injury. A few more sub-10-point games to start next year and then maybe you'll start to buy what we've said all along: that you SHOULD be considering HOW Tebow gets his points: crap for 3+ quarters, then due to all kinds of already-over-documented unsustainable, extenuating circumstances, he barely managed to achieve QB11-14 status.

Good luck with waiting for that to repeat next year!

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:44 am

Wayne, the fact I want injury-prone players to prove they can stay healthy doesn't mean I have an "incredible fear of injuries." Let me ask you this - will your ranking of Adrian Peterson in 2012 be the same as it was this season? If not, should I say that you have an "incredible fear of injuries?" Of course not. You're making an analysis with a player who has an injury issue of some kind to overcome. One is evaluation. The other is inaccurate hyperbole used for effect.

As far as the players you list, as we sit here today:

Britt - high-upside WR1. He is going to be someone I will target aggressively next season despite my "incredible fear of injuries."

Charles - late first/early second if he's healthy.

Forte - middle of the first round if healthy. Would love to get him if he's healthy.

Colston - I Tweeted about him last night. Those who follow me on Twitter know what I said.

It's also completely accurate to say Stafford should have been ranked higher than he was by most people. He was an elite fantasy QB who was not drafted anywhere as an elite fantasy QB. It's clear people had concerns about his ability to stay healthy for the entire season. Otherwise, he would've been a helluva lot higher than QB11 on the NFFC ADP list.

I had Stafford just outside the Top 12 on my final QB rankings. I should have ranked him higher. I can admit that. Everyone else who had him ranked in that range screwed the pooch on him too. So if I can take solace there, it's the fact I had a lot of company when it came to mis-ranking Stafford.

CoMo, just to be clear I don't expect Tebow to put up the numbers Stafford did this season. I'm just saying that the situations are comparable in terms of risk-reward. Stafford's upside is and always has been higher because he's significantly more talented. But that doesn't remove the fact Tebow has shown elite QB1 production and potential. Not saying he'll get there consistently but it is something he has shown he can produce.

Mike, I consider a player who misses the entire season or most of it a bust. It's likely a case of semantics but in my opinion Stafford was a bust in 2010. It's interesting that you've decided to take a shot at me because I had Stafford ranked a couple of spots lower than nearly everyone else did going into last season. I think it's best if you and I part ways on this discussion now that you've decided to make it personal. That's not what these boards should be about and given your request to me from the other day I'm quite surprised to see you go down this path.

I'm bowing out of this discussion, folks. I'm going to go enjoy the Sunday games, Hope everyone else does too.

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:54 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
It's interesting that you've decided to take a shot at me because I had Stafford ranked a couple of spots lower than nearly everyone else did going into last season. I think it's best if you and I part ways on this discussion now that you've decided to make it personal. That's not what these boards should be about and given your request to me from the other day I'm quite surprised to see you go down this path.

I'm bowing out of this discussion, folks. I'm going to go enjoy the Sunday games, Hope everyone else does too. Tom, please feel free to point us to a post of mine today where I've made this personal. I asked you to nudge the board the other day about keeping it civil because the discussion was getting into perceived motives and other such nonsense. I'm not questioning WHY you didn't rank Stafford higher (we had him 11th too); I'm questioning you trying to compare him to Tebow - an obvious 2012 QB2. I pointed out that I rarely saw him go as a QB2 this year. But thanks for the warning that personal texts to you are potential public message board fodder. :rolleyes:

You can leave the discussion if you wish. But don't pretend it's because I made it personal. Does the crow taste that bad?

[ January 15, 2012, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]

Coltsfan · Post by **Coltsfan** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:57 am

Peterson has a torn ACL and is not expected back by the beginning of the season. I don't think that Stafford's 2011 season was ever in doubt. I just don't see it as a good comparison.

And I do agree with you on your rankings of Britt, Forte and Charles. I'll have to look up your tweet on Colston.

Wayne

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:07 am

Originally posted by Coltsfan:
Peterson has a torn ACL and is not expected back by the beginning of the season. I don't think that Stafford's 2011 season was ever in doubt. I just don't see it as a good comparison.Wayne, my point is that factoring Peterson's injury situation into your rankings doesn't mean you have an incredible fear of injuries. You're simply looking at everything surrounding his situation to form the best analysis possible about his potential for the coming season.

That's what I was doing with Stafford. Again, do I wish I ranked him higher? Absolutely. But I don't recall seeing too many people who ranked him Top 5 at QB. If you did, props to you on a great call. I also don't recall him being drafted that high either. Props to those who did. Their rankings for Stafford proved to be spot on. However, it's clear based on his ADP that a lot of people had concerns of some kind about him and my guess is it was due to his injury history.

Coltsfan · Post by **Coltsfan** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:12 am

"I'd take Ryan, Cutler and Eli all before Flacco. I'd give strong consideration to Bradford but I think he comes with risk despite his considerable talent. Until Stafford proves he can stay healthy he won't be on any of my rosters next season unless the value is ridiculous."

That was the specific post i was referring toTom.

Here was my response.

"Elli definitely before Flacco and that's not even close. Ryan yes, Cutler is very close, and Bradford I would pass on to take Flacco. I have Stafford well ahead of Flacco and Ryan. (It's funny how we look at things completely different Tom.) "

Just for the record you were saying the same thing about Michael Vick and that one did work out for you!

Wayne

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:19 am

Originally posted by Coltsfan:

Just for the record you were saying the same thing about Michael Vick and that one did work out for you!

Worked out well. I tried to tell everyone who had Vick ranked Top 5 and especially ahead of Rodgers that they were making a big mistake. I did not think Vick could repeat what he did last season and he didn't. I'd say my call on Vick was spot on.

As far as the rest of the quote you posted. Ryan, Cutler and Eli all finished ahead of Flacco as I thought they would. I was right on the risks with Bradford too. Oh, you were referring to what I said about Stafford perhaps? Well yeah, I got him wrong like I said. But look at all those other QBs I got right. I did try to warn you guys about Vick and Flacco. Glass is half full, baby.

[ January 15, 2012, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

CoMoHusker · Post by **CoMoHusker** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:23 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
It's interesting that you've decided to take a shot at me because I had Stafford ranked a couple of spots lower than nearly everyone else did going into last season. I think it's best if you and I part ways on this discussion now that you've decided to make it personal. That's not what these boards should be about and given your request to me from the other day I'm quite surprised to see you go down this path.

I'm bowing out of this discussion, folks. I'm going to go enjoy the Sunday games, Hope everyone else does too. Tom, please feel free to point us to a post of mine today where I've made this personal. I asked you to nudge the board the other day about keeping it civil because the discussion was getting into perceived motives and other such nonsense. I'm not questioning WHY you didn't rank Stafford higher (we had him 11th too); I'm questioning you trying to compare him to Tebow - an obvious 2012 QB2. I pointed out that I rarely saw him go as a QB2 this year. But thanks for the warning that personal texts to you are potential public message board fodder. :rolleyes:

You can leave the discussion if you wish. But don't pretend it's because I made it personal. Does the crow taste that bad? [/QUOTE]I've read back through these recent posts and don't see anything that suggests a personal attack on anyone. It just looked to me that we were all continuing on what has been a great topic of discussion all year. I would guess it will be quite sometime before we see another 60+ page thread. It is clear that most of us enjoy a good healthy debate and I know for me, I'm not intending to ever insult or degrade anyone else in the process. I believe that to also be true of the majority. I will however apologize for any sarcasm in advance

Have fun watching today's games. This one is shaping up to be a great one and I think the next one may be even better.

[ January 15, 2012, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: CoMoHusker ]

Coltsfan · Post by **Coltsfan** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:25 am

Agreed Comohusker!

And we haven't had a thread this active since Snake was last on the boards!

Wayne

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:27 am

My comment stands. We can have fun with this discussion but as I posted the other day and again today let's keep the discussion civil. I appreciate everyone's cooperation with this simple request.

Thank you.